Behold
Well-known member
Yes.
"God manifested in the flesh". as "the Word became Flesh, and dwelt among us">
Jesus is the pre-incarnate "Word".
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
Yes.
"God manifested in the flesh". as "the Word became Flesh, and dwelt among us">
Jesus is the pre-incarnate "Word".
101G
Well-known member
ok you said that Jesus the pre-incarnate "Word"? ok ..... lets see. Remember this, 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." scripture, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" the angel tells us who sent him, listen. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."
did you hear this? the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel. the Lord God of the Holy Prophets.... the holy Prophets. so is this the Lord Jesus, the pre-incarnate "Word" in the OT? Yes or No. or is this the Father in the OT who is the Lord God.
your answer Please.
101G.
Behold
Well-known member
John 1
And the "WORD was God"...
A.) Jesus is the "Word made Flesh" (virgin born baby).
See that?
That is GOD wrapped in Human flesh.
101G
Well-known member
(smile), 101G know that. my question to You was in Post #242 as who the Lord God of the holy Prophets is. now, one more time. the angel in Revelation 22:6 said, "The Lord God" of the holy prophet sent him. now is the Lord God is the God of the OT whom you and many say is the Father.... is this correct? yes or no.
101G.
You are not going to have too many interactions with your smile and Lol Lol's-hope you realize that.
101G
Well-known member
(smiles), are they not friendly? and is it not fun to Laugh? just ignore those then, and just answer the question, we are not enemies here... at least we hope not.
101G.
Behold
Well-known member
Then you also know that Jesus (pre-incarnate) as the WORD, made "The World" according to John 1:10.
Notice that JESUS the MAN, is in the verse, as the creator of the World.
He's the same as found in Colossians 1:16.
See, when Jesus said..>"When you've seen ME... You've seen the FATHER".... He understands His own Deity.
You dont. @101G
See, when Jesus said..."Before Abraham was born.... I AM".... John 8.....that is Jesus referring to Himself as "And the Word was God".
Notice..
When Moses asked God...."what is your Name"........God gave the same answer that Jesus gave, concerning "Himself"..
A.) "'I AM".
This is why Jesus said..."I and my Father.....are ONE".
The is why Jesus told YOU...."you believe in the Father.....believe also in ME".
The fact is...when Jesus's baby feet took their first steps, they were walking on the World He Created.... John 1:10
Behold
Well-known member
You come across as condescending and you know my stance on the Triune Godhead.
101G
Well-known member
to all,
so a (smile), or a Laugh is preventing someone from the TRUTH? we hope not.
now thanks for the reply.
the terms "ALONE" and "BY MYSELF" indicate only "ONE" PERSON, and not two as 101G been asking. the Lord God of the OT is the Lord Jesus. ONE PERSON ONLY in the ECHAD of being equally shared.
it's not two different and separate persons.
so the problem exist for the trinity, is this, How can God be in God when he's already in Flesh, and only as ONE PERSON.
yes, one person, for the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Lord Jesus who sent his angels. and the Lord Jesus ..... of the holy prophets is ONE PERSON.
101G.
so a (smile), or a Laugh is preventing someone from the TRUTH? we hope not.
now thanks for the reply.
yes the Word made all things, per John 1:3 but this is not what 101G asked. so let 101G ask it this way. agree that the Word who is "GOD", John 1:1c, but the Word who is God is "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" when he made all things. which means this is the same ONE PERSON. LISTEN, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
the terms "ALONE" and "BY MYSELF" indicate only "ONE" PERSON, and not two as 101G been asking. the Lord God of the OT is the Lord Jesus. ONE PERSON ONLY in the ECHAD of being equally shared.
it's not two different and separate persons.
so the problem exist for the trinity, is this, How can God be in God when he's already in Flesh, and only as ONE PERSON.
yes, one person, for the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Lord Jesus who sent his angels. and the Lord Jesus ..... of the holy prophets is ONE PERSON.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
well just answer the question and no one will be laughing... (smile). and the Joke as U say will be on nthose who are deceived.
so, to bring LIGHT to the people, "is not the Lord Jesus the Lord God of the OT .... as well as the NT?. one PERSON who is Father and Son in the ECHAD? yes or No.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
don't look at the book cover, READ the BOOK, the Bible. now is not the Lord God JESUS who is the God of the holy prophets? Yes or No.
your answer please...... see 101G said please.... (smile).
101G.
To address this interpretation of Isaiah 44:24 and the objection to the doctrine of the Trinity, several points can be considered:
1. **Contextual Understanding**:
- In Isaiah 44:24, God declares His sovereignty as the Creator, emphasizing His ability to create all things alone and by Himself. This does not negate the possibility of plurality within the Godhead but highlights God's uniqueness and power as the sole Creator.
- Contextually, the emphasis is on God's independence and supremacy in creation, not on the number of persons within the Godhead.
2. **Use of Singular Pronouns**:
- The use of singular pronouns such as "I," "me," and "myself" in the passage reflects the singular nature of God's declaration, affirming His exclusive role as Creator. However, it doesn't preclude the possibility of plurality within the Godhead.
- Throughout the Bible, singular pronouns are often used when referring to God, but this does not necessarily imply a solitary existence. It's a linguistic convention reflecting the unity and indivisibility of the Godhead.
3. **Understanding "Echad"**:
- The Hebrew word "echad," translated as "one" in Deuteronomy 6:4 ("Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one"), can denote a compound unity rather than absolute singularity. It can signify a complex unity, as in a family or a team, rather than a simple numerical oneness.
- This understanding of "echad" supports the idea of plurality within unity, which aligns with the doctrine of the Trinity.
4. **New Testament Revelation**:
- The New Testament provides further revelation concerning the nature of God, revealing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct persons within the Godhead.
- While the Old Testament anticipates and lays the groundwork for the revelation of the Trinity, the full understanding of God's triune nature is revealed more clearly in the New Testament through the incarnation of Jesus Christ and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
5. **Incarnation and Distinct Persons**:
- The objection raises concerns about how God can be both in heaven and incarnate as Jesus on earth simultaneously. However, the doctrine of the Trinity affirms the distinct personhood of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit while affirming their unity in essence.
- The incarnation of Jesus does not diminish the divine identity of the Father or the Holy Spirit. Instead, it demonstrates the profound nature of God's love and His willingness to dwell among humanity in the person of Jesus Christ.
In summary, while Isaiah 44:24 emphasizes God's sole role as Creator using singular language, it does not negate the possibility of plurality within the Godhead. The doctrine of the Trinity, revealed progressively throughout Scripture and clarified in the New Testament, affirms the unity of God in essence while recognizing the distinct persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
101G
Well-known member
Stop right there. is God here the Father... the "LORD", or the Son ..... the "Lord" who made all things.
your answer please.
101G.
There you go-
"Echad" (אֶחָד) is a Hebrew word that is commonly translated as "one" or "alone" in English. It appears in various contexts throughout the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). The meaning of "echad" is nuanced and can convey different shades of unity or oneness depending on the context in which it is used. Lexicons provide insight into the semantic range of the word. Here's a definition from a couple of lexicons:
1. **Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (BDB)**:
- BDB defines "echad" primarily as "one," emphasizing a numerical unity. However, it also notes that "echad" can express a collective or composite unity when used in certain contexts. For example, in Deuteronomy 6:4 ("Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one"), "echad" is understood by many scholars to denote a compound unity, expressing the idea of "unity in plurality."
2. **The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (HALOT)**:
- HALOT similarly defines "echad" as "one," indicating a numerical oneness. It notes that "echad" can convey a sense of unity, singularity, or uniqueness depending on the context. HALOT also acknowledges that in some instances, "echad" may imply a compound unity or a unity within diversity.
Both lexicons recognize the diversity of meanings that "echad" can carry in different contexts, including a simple numerical oneness as well as a complex or composite unity. This flexibility in meaning allows for interpretations that accommodate the doctrine of the Trinity, where God is understood as one in essence but existing in three distinct persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Dr. Michael L. Brown is a Messianic Jewish scholar and theologian who has written extensively on biblical topics.
Dr. Brown often discusses the significance of "echad" in the context of the Shema, the foundational declaration of Jewish faith found in Deuteronomy 6:4, which states, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one (echad)." He emphasizes that "echad" does not solely denote numerical oneness but also encompasses a unity within diversity.
According to Dr. Brown's understanding, "echad" suggests a compound unity or a unity within a plurality. He argues that this compound unity aligns with the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, where God is understood as one in essence yet existing in three distinct persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this view, "echad" supports the idea of a complex unity within the Godhead.
Dr. Brown's interpretation of "echad" reflects his belief in the compatibility of Jewish monotheism with the Christian understanding of the triune nature of God. He sees "echad" as a concept that allows for both the unity and diversity within the Godhead, affirming the oneness of God while recognizing the distinction of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Behold
Well-known member
Im not certain if anyone here has checked your Spiritual ID to find out if you are actually Born again., as if not, isn't it demeaning to a Christian Forum to let a non believer stand up and be counted?
I mean if all they can provide as their "proof" is.>"well, i was water baptized"...then HEY MAN, that's a FAIL...
So, im really outspoken about MODS allowing Christians forums to be used as a hot bed of Heresy, and a lot of people just get really angry with me about my POV, but, its not going to change, as i dont understand why Christian Forums allow what harms real believers, to park and preach, endlessly...
I just figure that the Devil is doing what He does, and way too many are going along with Him.
And if some person who feels STUNG says.>""""well what right do we have to try to find out if REAL CRISTIANS are on these forums.. vs deceived unbelievers who just want to FIGHT and FIGHT and FIGHT."
And you just have to "FACE Palm" when that type of ignorance speaks out.
Listen...
A.) Its the Mods duty to find out if an agitator, is born again, or not.
Now, Listen, @101G
Notice..
"Let US.... .make man......in OUR... image"..
1.) ""Let US"
2.) Make
"US" = MAKE"
"US" = 2.... who are "Making= MAN">
So, that is not ONE doing it, as "US" is not singular,..... and its not going to become singular because you smile before you frown @101G .
Let me show you how "US" works.........in that verse.
God Spoke, and Jesus (pre-incarnate......is the WORD.
See that? = That's the "US"...
God is the Creator and Jesus is the WORD of Creation., and the HOLY SPIRIT did it......
."US = 2", and + The Holy Spirit = 3
1+1+1 = Trinity.
So again....Thats 2.. thats "US" doing the CREATION...
And that is why John 1:10 says that JESUS "made the world"., as He is the other part of the "US", when He was Pre-Incarnate.
Let's break down this passage exegetically with morphology:
1. **כה־אמר יהוה** (koh-amar YHWH) - "Thus says the LORD":
- כה (koh) - Adverb meaning "thus" or "like this."
- אמר (amar) - Verb, Qal perfect, 3rd person singular, meaning "he said" or "says."
- יהוה (YHWH) - The personal name of God, often translated as "LORD" in English translations.
2. **גאלך ויצרך מבטן** (go'alekha ve-yotserkha mi-beten) - "your Redeemer and the one who formed you from the womb":
- גאלך (go'alekha) - Noun, masculine singular construct, meaning "your Redeemer."
- ויצרך (ve-yotserkha) - Conjunction "ve" (and) + Verb, Qal perfect, 3rd person singular, meaning "he formed you."
- מבטן (mi-beten) - Preposition "mi" (from) + Noun, masculine singular construct, meaning "from the womb."
3. **אנכי יהוה** (anokhi YHWH) - "I am the LORD":
- אנכי (anokhi) - Pronoun, 1st person singular, emphatic form of "I" or "I am."
- יהוה (YHWH) - The personal name of God, often translated as "LORD" in English translations.
4. **עשׂה כל נטה שׁמים לבדי רקע הארץ מי אתי** (oseh kol noteh shamayim levadi roqa ha'aretz mi iti) - "Who makes all things, who alone stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself":
- עשׂה (oseh) - Verb, Qal participle, masculine singular, meaning "making" or "who makes."
- כל (kol) - Noun, masculine singular, meaning "all" or "every."
- נטה (noteh) - Verb, Qal participle, masculine singular, meaning "stretching" or "who stretches."
- שׁמים (shamayim) - Noun, masculine plural, meaning "heavens" or "sky."
- לבדי (levadi) - Preposition "le" (to) + Noun, masculine singular, meaning "alone" or "by myself."
- רקע (roqa) - Verb, Qal participle, masculine singular, meaning "spreading" or "who spreads."
- הארץ (ha'aretz) - Noun, feminine singular, meaning "earth" or "land."
- מי (mi) - Preposition "mi" (from) or "who."
- אתי (iti) - Pronoun, 1st person singular, meaning "with me" or "by myself."
In this passage, God is speaking through the prophet Isaiah, emphasizing His identity as the Creator and Redeemer of Israel. The morphology of the verbs and nouns used underscores God's actions as the sole Creator and the exclusive source of salvation for His people.
The concept of the Trinity, as explicitly articulated in Christian theology, is not directly mentioned in this verse. However, Christian theologians often interpret passages like this within the broader context of Scripture to understand the triune nature of God.
In Isaiah 44:24, God is depicted as the Creator and Redeemer, emphasizing His sovereignty and power over creation. While the verse does not explicitly mention the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct persons within the Godhead, it lays the foundation for understanding God's multifaceted nature.
Interpretations that align with the doctrine of the Trinity often emphasize the unity and diversity within the Godhead implied in passages like this. For example:
1. **Creator and Redeemer**: The roles of Creator and Redeemer attributed to God in this verse can be understood as indicative of the Father's role in creation and redemption, the Son's role as the Redeemer who became incarnate, and the Holy Spirit's role in sustaining and empowering believers.
2. **Sole Creator and Redeemer**: While the verse emphasizes God's singular role as Creator and Redeemer, it doesn't preclude the possibility of plurality within the Godhead. Christians interpret this in light of the doctrine of the Trinity, understanding God's unity in essence while acknowledging the distinct persons of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
3. **Compound Unity**: The Hebrew word "echad" (translated as "one" in Deuteronomy 6:4) suggests a compound unity or a unity within diversity. This concept aligns with the Christian understanding of the Trinity, where God is one in essence but exists in three distinct persons.
While the Trinity is not explicitly mentioned in Isaiah 44:24, interpretations of this verse within the broader biblical context contribute to the understanding of God's triune nature as revealed throughout Scripture.
Behold
Well-known member
I can teach you, but i can't learn it for you.
And as you are only here to agitate, then i guess you'll continue that Ministry.
101G
Well-known member
so you cannot discern this? test the spirit by the spirit.
so do 101G.
well instead of arguing with your brother, seek the truth.
ok, 101G listen to you, now LISTEN to the Lord Jesus who is God, and 101G. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
now behold, is not "he", and "him" is one person. and this is right after verse 26. so how did God go from a "US" and a "OUR", a plurality to a singularity of "his", and "he"? this need to be examine. for the Lord Jesus himself.... who is God said, God is a "he" so why did God say let US and OUR in one verse, and in the very next verse say HE and HIS. this need to be resolved. and then we can KNOW the TRUTH.
101G.
Behold
Well-known member
When were you saved.?
Who saved you.?
Why were you saved. ?
What were you saved from.?
How were you saved ? What was the process ?
