101G
Well-known member
if that's your answer to John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 , then you're deceived. hang in there.
101G.
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
101G.
101G
Well-known member
MatthewG
Active member
No one can really be a solution to a problem, like the redemptive process of people being born again, whom are adopted by the Father, by the blood shed of Yeshua, which one is pretty much baptized in, and rising to newness of life by rising up again after dying with the Lord on the cross, in spiritual life, from once being spiritually dead.
I like what Paul says to his audience here,
”So now anyone who is in Christ Jesus is not judged guilty. That is because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made you free. It made you free from the law that brings sin and death. The law was without power because it was made weak by our sinful selves. But God did what the law could not do: He sent his own Son to earth with the same human life that everyone else uses for sin. God sent him to be an offering to pay for sin. So God used a human life to destroy sin. He did this so that we could be right just as the law said we must be. Now we don’t live following our sinful selves. We live following the Spirit. People who live following their sinful selves think only about what they want. But those who live following the Spirit are thinking about what the Spirit wants them to do. If your thinking is controlled by your sinful self, there is spiritual death. But if your thinking is controlled by the Spirit, there is life and peace. Why is this true? Because anyone whose thinking is controlled by their sinful self is against God. They refuse to obey God’s law. And really they are not able to obey it. Those who are ruled by their sinful selves cannot please God. But you are not ruled by your sinful selves. You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ. Your body will always be dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit gives you life, because Christ made you right with God. God raised Jesus from death. And if God’s Spirit lives in you, he will also give life to your bodies that die. Yes, God is the one who raised Christ from death, and he will raise you to life through his Spirit living in you. So, my brothers and sisters, we must not be ruled by our sinful selves. We must not live the way our sinful selves want. If you use your lives to do what your sinful selves want, you will die spiritually. But if you use the Spirit’s help to stop doing the wrong things you do with your body, you will have true life. The true children of God are those who let God’s Spirit lead them. The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “Abba, Father.” And the Spirit himself speaks to our spirits and makes us sure that we are God’s children. If we are God’s children, we will get the blessings God has for his people. He will give us all that he has given Christ. But we must suffer like Christ suffered. Then we will be able to share his glory.“
Romans 8:1-17 ERV
MatthewG
Active member
Good advice to be sure. Today is the Last Day of Unleavened Bread, a 7 day "Feast of the Lord" in which the First and Last day are Sabbaths. It was created by God to remind us of the nature of Sin and our flesh. It is a genius instruction that really shows how men are addicted to the Sin that we are surrounded by, symbolized by "Leavening". It represents being "Unleavened" (Strive against Sin) from the point of Passover, which is the Acknowledgment of God, and His Son whom God sent, and the journey the Faithful undertake to the end of their life. (Enduring to the end)
In the Feast, men are to remove any leavening from their home and "abstain" from consuming any leavening for 7 days. Bread, cake, pies, pizza, cookies, and more, all contain leavening. I am always fascinated by the point of this feast, and how it teaches men to "Be diligent" because Sin is so pervasive in the garden God placed us in. I can't tell you how many times over the last 30 years, that we find halfway through the Feast, a box of crackers hidden behind something in the pantry, or a small bag of cookies hidden in the freezer that we didn't catch. So what do we do, but go forward towards being unleavened.
It brings David's Words, and the Prophets to light is such a stark way. And Paul's as well.
Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: (Sinless, Unleavened) but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I "press toward the mark for the prize" of the high calling of God (Sinless, Unleavened, Perfect) (Which was) in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, "be thus minded": and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
So much energy and time wasted on religious doctrines and traditions of men, (is God a Trinity or not?) when God has created, through HIS WORD, the perfect Path for His People to walk, to navigate through this life.
Are you observing Jewish mitzvot?
MatthewG
Active member
If it’s possible to know the true God and the one whom sent Jesus, then it’s possible to at least in the heart have an understanding of Yahavah… whom Yeshua had served, and was sent by.
There is a lot of things to consider with this prayer to his Father.
”After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the Son can give glory to you. You gave the Son power over all people so that he could give eternal life to all those you have given to him.
And this is eternal life: that people can know you, the only true God, and that they can know Jesus Christ, the one you sent. I finished the work you gave me to do. I brought you glory on earth. And now, Father, give me glory with you. Give me the glory I had with you before the world was made.
“You gave me some people from the world. I have shown them what you are like. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me. They have obeyed your teaching. Now they know that everything I have came from you. I told them the words you gave me, and they accepted them. They realized the fact that I came from you and believed that you sent me. I pray for them now. I am not praying for the people in the world. But I am praying for these people you gave me, because they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And my glory is seen in them.
“Now I am coming to you. I will not stay in the world, but these followers of mine are still in the world. Holy Father, keep them safe by the power of your name—the name you gave me. Then they will be one, just as you and I are one. While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name—the name you gave me. I protected them. And only one of them was lost—the one who was sure to be lost. This was to show the truth of what the Scriptures said would happen.
“I am coming to you now. But I pray these things while I am still in the world. I say all this so that these followers can have the true happiness that I have. I want them to be completely happy.
I have given them your teaching. And the world has hated them, because they don’t belong to the world, just as I don’t belong to the world. “I am not asking you to take them out of the world. But I am asking that you keep them safe from the Evil One. They don’t belong to the world, just as I don’t belong to the world. Make them ready for your service through your truth. Your teaching is truth. I have sent them into the world, just as you sent me into the world. I am making myself completely ready to serve you. I do this for them, so that they also might be fully qualified for your service.
“I pray not only for these followers but also for those who will believe in me because of their teaching. Father, I pray that all who believe in me can be one. You are in me and I am in you. I pray that they can also be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me. I gave them this glory so that they can be one, just as you and I are one. I will be in them, and you will be in me. So they will be completely one. Then the world will know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me.
“Father, I want these people you have given me to be with me in every place I am. I want them to see my glory—the glory you gave me because you loved me before the world was made. Father, you are the one who always does what is right. The world does not know you, but I know you, and these followers of mine know that you sent me. I showed them what you are like, and I will show them again. Then they will have the same love that you have for me, and I will live in them.”“
John 17:1-26 ERV
John 17:1-26 After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the Son can give glory to you. You gave the Son power over all people so t | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (
After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the Son can give glory to you. You gave the Son power over all people so t
bible.com
The reason for concentration. Paul did not presume to have gained
absolute or final knowledge of Christ as outlined above. Such knowledge
requires diligent and constant pursuit, having as the ultimate goal the possession
of Christ as He had taken possession of Paul, 12. Although the apostle’s
wonderful career for the Lord was drawing to a close and he had not yet grasped
in experience the fullness of what he was in Christ, still he exerted the utmost
concentration in pursuing the goal of God’s upward call in Christ Jesus, 13-14.
This probably has reference to the bema, or judgment seat of Christ, when the
believer’s works shall be judged. Paul’s aim was evidently to possess such
intimate knowledge of his Lord, and his position in Him, that the day of
judgment would be one of approval and victory instead of shame and defeat.
Every effort was bent with this focus in view.
3:15-19. Another appeal for unity
15-16. The appeal. Those who are ‘mature’ (teleiot), i.e., grown-up both
doctrinally and experientially, are to have the attitudes that Paul had just
expressed in his testimony concerning his own struggle of faith, 15 (see
comments on 10-14; cf. Gal 5:10). Unity is essential and patience necessary.
Depiction of a Roman chariot race, from the top of an ancient clay lamp. Paul described his life in
Christ as pressing towards the goal to win the prize.
17-19. The example. The apostle is able to offer his own manner of life as an
example. join with others in following my example,’ 17a (cf. Eph 5:1). He urges
continual observation of those who live by God’s grace, 17b, because many do
not walk thus. Those who do not walk in grace are ‘enemies of the cross of
Christ,’ i.e., they are hostile in some degree to the complete sufficiency of the
death of Christ as the basis of justification before God, adding some other
requirement to grace through faith as the way of salvation (Eph 2:8-9). Paul
strongly denounces them, 18-19.
3:20-21. Christ the believer’s expectation
20a. Our heavenly citizenship. Our commonwealth or native land is in
heaven. We are a heavenly people (Col 3:1-4), citizens of a country in keeping
with our high calling.
20b-21. The privileges of our citizenship. We are expecting or awaiting our
Saviour from heaven (Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thess 1:9-10; 4:13-18). He will then
complete our salvation in its future sense of glorification, 21. This involves
changing ‘our lowly bodies’ i.e., our present physical bodies, still subject to sin,
disease and death, 21. This remodeling or transforming will result in a body that
is like the resurrection body of our Lord (cf. 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Cor 15:52; Lk
24:39). It will be deathless, diseaseless, sinless, indestructible, designed for
heaven and the spiritual world. Such a change will be effected by Christ’s
omnipotence.
4:1-5. Standing fast in Christ’s sufficiency
1. The reason for the injunction. ‘Keep on standing firmly (present
imperative), constantly persevere in Christ’ (Gr). Why? Because we are a
heavenly people enjoying a sure salvation (3:20-21) and are to be rewarded for
such firm adherence to our position in Christ. ‘My joy and crown’ refers to
Paul’s fruit borne in lives, which will be recompensed at the Lord’s coming, 1b.
2-5. The result of the injunction. Their constant perseverance will heal
personal rifts and cause them to ‘agree with each other in the Lord,’ 2 (cf. 2:5). It
will produce a spirit of helpfulness among believers, i.e., those whose names are
‘in the book of life,’ 3 (Col 1:27), and will produce double joy, 4. Rejoicing in
anything or anyone other than in Christ and in the matter of His atoning work of
salvation, always decreases joy. A firm stand also generates the ‘gentleness’ of
Christ and the expectation of the imminent return of the Lord, 5 (cf. 3:20-21).
4:6-9. The secret of God’s peace
6-7. The prescription for receiving God’s peace. The direction is twofold:
don’t worry about anything; and pray about everything in a spirit of thanksgiving
and gratitude, 6. The result will be ‘the peace of God.’ This is the peace with
which God fills the believer as he stands firmly in his position in Christ, 1. It is
to be distinguished from ‘peace with God’ which is the result of justification
(Rom 5:1) and the portion of every believer. This deeper peace of walking with
God is said to be incomprehensible to the merely natural mind. It surpasses
anything the unspiritual mind can grasp; it ‘keeps on guarding’ (Gk), protecting
the mental, emotional, and spiritual life from enemy intrusion of that which
would spoil God’s peace.
8-9. The prescription for maintaining God’s peace. The secret is (1) to
guard our mental life, i.e., what we allow ourselves to think upon or ponder, 8.
We are to meditate continually on the things that are true, noble (honorable,
reputable), right (just, righteous), pure, lovely (acceptable), of good report
(commendable, laudable). (2) To practice the things which were taught by the
apostle and were exemplified in his personal contact with them. The result will
mean not only possessing ‘the peace of God,’ 7, but ‘the God of peace’ Himself,
9.
4:10-23. Paul’s testimony of God’s peace
10-14. His contentment in the Lord. He rejoices greatly that the Philippians’
care for him has flourished once again, like vegetation revived by a shower, 10.
He stresses the fact that he has learned to be satisfied in whatever state he found
himself while in the pathway of service for the Lord, 11-12. In Christ he has
unlimited potential, 13 (cf. Jn 15:5; 2 Cor 12:9). He is grateful for help in time of
necessity, 14.
15-23. His gratitude for benefit received. He commends the early liberality
of the Philippian church, 15-17, and is grateful for their recent gift via
Epaphroditus, 18. They are assured that God will honor them as they honor Him
in their giving, 19 (cf. Ps 23:1). Paul closes with a benediction, 20, 23, and
personal salutation, 21-22. The saints of Caesar’s household were converts from
the imperial Roman court itself.
Correct @Studyman
I don't know much about Jewish religious traditions, nor do not partake of them. My post was about a "Feast of the Lord" called "Feast of Unleavened Bread".
The seven petitions. (1) That the Son might be glorified, 1. This
involved our salvation. He glorified the Father in His life and His finished work,
anticipated in verse 4. In this our salvation resides. He had power to give eternal
life to as many as the Father had given Him, 2. Our Lord defined salvation, 3. (2)
Restoration to His preincarnate glory in union with the Father, 5. This involved
His glorious person. He alone could be an efficacious Saviour.
(3) Safety of His
own from the world, 11, and the ‘evil one,’ 15. This involved the security of the
saved sinner. (4) Sanctification of believers, 17. This insured their fellowship
with God and usefulness in this life. (5) The spiritual oneness of believers, 11,
20-21. This involved the advent of the Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 1:5; 2:4; 11:14-
16) to baptize all believers into vital union with Christ (Rom 6:3-4) and with one
another in Him (1 Cor 12:13). (6) That the world might believe, 21. This
involved recognition of the oneness of the church in its union with Christ and
with all born-again believers, 20. (7) That believers might be with Him in
heaven to behold and share His glory,24. This involved the security and assured
eternal felicity of all who are His.
The Resurrection authenticated
The open tomb, Jn 20:1-2
The recovered grave clothing, Jn 20:3-8
The revelation of the risen Lord
1. To Mary of Magdala, Jn 20:11-18; Mk 16:9
2. To women returning from the tomb, Mt 28:8-10
3. To Peter later in the day, Lk 24:34; 1 Cor 15:5
4. To the Emmaus disciples, Lk 24:13-33:5.
5. To the apostles – Thomas absent, Lk 24:36-43; Jn 20:19-24
6. To the apostles – Thomas present, Jn 20:26-29
7. To the seven by the Lake of Tiberias, Jn 21:1-23
8. To a multitude of believers on a Galilean mountain, 1 Cor 15:6
9. To James, 1 Cor 15:7
10. To the eleven, Mt 28:16-20; Mk 16:14-20; Lk 24:33-53; Acts 1:3-12
11. At the ascension, Acts 1:3-12
12. To Paul, Acts 9:3-6; 1 Cor 15:8-13.
13. To Stephen, Acts 7:55
14. To Paul in the temple, Acts 22:17-21; 23:11-15.
15. To John on Patmos, Rev 1:10-19
Pilate’s sealing and guarding the tomb, Mt 27:62-66
Removal of the stone by an angel, Mt 28:1-3
The terror of the Roman guards, Mt 28:4
The message of the angel to the women, Mt 28:5-6
The report of the guards to the chief priests, Mt 28:11
The chief priests’ bribe to the Roman guards, Mt
28:12-13
The Roman guards spread the lie that Christ’s body
was stolen, Mt 28:15
The certainty of Christ’s death, Jn 19:34-42
The certainty of His burial, Mk 15:42-47
The certainty His body was not stolen:
1. If His enemies had done so (Mt 28:4-15) they would
have produced it.
2. If His friends had done so they would not have
preached a lie nor been willing to die for it.
A hallucination? How could doubting Thomas have a
hallucination, or 500 people imagine something at the
same time?
A hoax? How does one then account for the wonderful
change in all the disciples from deepest gloom to radiant
joy, cowardice to valor, timid disciples to powerful
witnesses?
The miracle of the Christian faith, personal
regeneration
The conversion of Saul of Tarsus
Unger.
Behold
Well-known member
@Studyman ....You dont understand this verse, and you're not going to understand it, because your Religion has no ability to make you righteous or keep you the same.
So, this part of the verse.....
=- "not as tho i had already attained".........was explained by Paul as not having attained to the RAPTURE... a few verses before, that you didnt read and your cult doesn't read.
And Legalist, and worse, who dont read a bible, much less study it.. who just post other people's teaching...... these deceived people, twist that verse into their... "see, i can't be perfect, so, i must sin and confess it". = failed discipleship.
And that is the Heretics theology.
Also, Paul who said "already perfect" is talking again about Rapture, as when the believers are Raptured, .. and Paul looked for it every day.. He knows that they will THEN BE.. ."conformed into the Image of Christ" so.. .THAT is the "perfect" that He's still waiting to become..
But down here, He told the true believers...>"as many as BE PERFECT" are those whe are not stuck in Hebrews 6:1.. these diaper baby carnal children, who are confessing sin, and repenting.
Paul tells us to stop being the tit baby Hebrews 6:1.. and grow up, and become this..
"The fullness of the Stature of Christ".....on THIS EARTH.
UNLEAVENED BREAD (Heb. maṣṣâ, “sweet”; Gk. ˒azumos). Bread baked from
unfermented dough, or (NIV) without yeast (Gen. 19:3; Judg. 6:19; 1 Sam. 28:24). This was
formally presented for the Paschal (Passover) cakes (Ex. 12:8, 15, 20; 13:3, 6–7) and thus
became a symbol of the festival popularly called “the feast of unleavened bread.” See
Leaven; Festivals; Sacrifices.
LEAVEN. A substance added to dough to cause it to rise, from Lat. levamen, that is, “that
which rises,” from lavere, “to raise.”
Terms. The Heb. term ś˒ōr occurs only five times in Scripture, in four of which (Ex.
12:15, 19; 13:7; Lev. 2:1–11) it is translated “leaven” and in the fifth (Deut. 16:3) “leavened
bread.”
The NIV translates “yeast” in each of these references. This probably denotes the
small portion of dough left from the preceding baking that had fermented and turned acidic.
Its distinctive meaning is fermented or leavened mass. The Heb. expression maṣṣâ, “sweet,”
means without leaven (Lev. 10:12); thus the Heb. terms for the meaning of fermented or sour.
The Gk. term is zumē and has the same latitude of meaning as the general Heb. words for
leaven.
Preparation.
In early times leaven was made from fine white bran kneaded with mold or
with the meal of certain plants such as fitch or vetch, or from barley mixed with water and
then allowed to stand until it turned sour. In later times it was made from bread flour kneaded
without salt and kept until it passed into a state of fermentation.
Levitical Regulations. The Mosaic law strictly forbade the use of leaven in the priestly
ritual (Lev. 2:11). Typically this signified that the offering was to be a type of purity, and
leaven, which causes disintegration and corruption, symbolized evil and the energy of sin. To
the Hebrew mind, whatever was in a decayed state suggested the idea of uncleanness and
corruption. Amos (4:5), in the light of the prohibitions of the law, ironically commands the
Jews of his day to “offer a thank offering also from that which is leavened.” In two instances,
however, the law permits its use—with the offering of the new loaves presented at Pentecost
(Lev. 23:17) and in connection with the peace offering (7:13).
The reason for the exception at
Pentecost is that the two wave loaves of fine flour typify the NT church brought into being by
the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1–4; 1 Cor. 12:12–13). The two wave loaves typifying
the church contain leaven because there is evil in the church; but it is to be carefully noted
that the loaves with leaven were baked; that is, the manifested evil in the Body of Christ, the
church, was judged in the death of Christ. Leaven, then, is symbolic or typical of evil, always
having this implication in the OT (cf. Gen. 19:3; Ex. 12:8, 15–20, 34, 39). In the NT its
symbolic meaning is also clear. It is “malice and wickedness” as contrasted with “sincerity
and truth” (1 Cor. 5:6–8). It represents evil doctrine (Matt. 16:12) in its threefold
manifestation of Phariseeism, Sadduceeism, and Herodianism (16:6; Mark 8:15). Religious
externalism constituted the leaven of the Pharisees (Matt. 23:14, 16, 28), while a skeptical
attitude toward the supernatural was the leaven of the Sadducees (22:23, 29), and the spirit of
worldly compromise was the leaven of the Herodians (22:16–21; Mark 3:6). The parable of
the leaven “which a woman took, and hid in three pecks of meal, until it was all leavened”
(Matt. 13:34) is in agreement with the unvarying scriptural meaning of leaven. M.F.U.
BIBLIOGRAPHY: O. T. Allis, Evangelical Quarterly 19 (1947): 254–73; J. Jeremias, The
Parables of Jesus (1955), pp. 89–90; N. Turner, Christian Words (1980), p. 255.
Unger.
Some additional info.
I'm not sure whose words you are quoting here. Or whose interpretations or translations they are, so I can't speak to them, having never studied them.
But I think Paul is constant with his promotion of serving God, as it is written "With all our might and soul". And the Jesus of the Bible does say to "Be ye perfect, even as Jesus is perfect" (Like His Father in heaven), and Paul agrees with himself in Romans 2: "To them who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality", which is undeniably the "Prize of the High calling of God" Paul pressed towards, which was in Christ Jesus. And there is a Promise to those who would "Yield Themselves" to God in such an endeavor, accord to Scriptures including according to Paul, which is the highly sought after "eternal life":
Behold
Well-known member
Every born again Believer already has "immortality", as you can't become born again as "one with God" and not have it.
You can't be "seated in Heavenly places in Christ", and not already have Eternal Life and "immortality".
And Glory, and Honor, have to do with Rewards.. and that has to do with the Bema seat., and that happens to the born again....after you die, or after you are raptured..
The good we do down here, for God and Christ, out of a pure motive, will find those deed rewarded in Heaven.
Even "keeping the faith".........in other words....>"never lost your faith, never had a season of doubt....never backslide.....never willfully committed carnal deeds"....
see all that??
That type of "faith keeping"....is the hardest of all, and Paul "kept the faith", and there is Laid up for him a "crown of righteousness". that is a rare heavenly prize, indeed.
Even Peter failed that test. but Paul didnt.
Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Rom_12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Php_3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Jas_1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
All depends on how you interpret "perfect"-right? Would you say mature is in order?
ἔσεσθε τέλειοι. Lit. ‘ye shall be perfect.’ Either (1) in reference to a future state, ‘if ye have this true love or charity ye shall be perfect hereafter’; or (2) the future has an imperative force, and τέλειοι is limited by the preceding words = perfect in respect of love, i.e. ‘love your enemies as well as your neighbours,’ because your Father being perfect in respect of love does this. This use of the future is in accordance with the Hebrew idiom.
Be ye therefore perfect ... - The Saviour concludes this part of the discourse by commanding his disciples to be “perfect.” This word commonly means “finished, complete, pure, holy.” Originally, it is applied to a piece of mechanism, as a machine that is complete in its parts. Applied to people, it refers to completeness of parts, or perfection, where no part is defective or wanting. Thus, Job Job_1:1 is said to be “perfect;” that is, not holy as God, or “sinless” - for fault is afterward found with him Job_9:20; Job_42:6; but his piety was “proportionate” - had a completeness of parts was consistent and regular. He exhibited his religion as a prince, a father, an individual, a benefactor of the poor. He was not merely a pious man in one place, but uniformly. He was consistent everywhere. See the notes at that passage. This is the meaning in Matthew. Be not religious merely in loving your friends and neighbors, but let your piety be shown in loving your enemies; imitate God; let your piety be “complete, proportionate, regular.” This every Christian may be; this every Christian must be.
Barnes.
perfect
mature
G5046<<<----
telos G5056 [end, goal]
teleó G5055 [to carry out, complete],
epiteleó G2005 [to carry out, complete],
synteleó G4931 [to complete, fulfil],
synteleia G4930 [completion, fulfilment],
pantelés G3838 [complete, full],
teleios G5046 [complete, perfect],
teleiotés G5047 [completeness, perfection],
teleioó G5048 [to complete, perfect],
teleiósis G5050 [completeness, perfection],
teleiotes [perfecter]
telos .
A. The Greek World.
1. telos first means "achievement," "fulfilment," "execution," "success," then "power," "official power," and "office."
2. Another meaning is "completion," "perfection," "final step," "supreme stage," "crown," "goal," "maturity," "result," "conclusion," "end," "cessation." Adverbially the meaning is "finally," "fully," "totally," "unceasingly."
3. telos can also mean "obligation."
4. Cultically it denotes an "offering" to the gods or a "celebration" of the "mysteries" or the "fulfilment" of sacrifices.
5. Finally a telos may be a "detachment" or "group."
B. The LXX.
1. Used for various Hebrew terms, telos means "execution" in 1Ch 29:19.
2. It then has such senses as "goal" (Job 23:3), "result" (2Mac 5:7), "conclusion" (Ecc 7:2), "end" (Dan 9:27). eis telos can have such senses as "forever," "completely," "perfectly," "to the limit," dia telous denotes "continually," and we find mechri telous for "constantly" or "in full measure."
3. telos may also mean "tax," "toll," or "tribute" (Num 31:28).
4. In the headings of many Psalms eis ώ telos seems to mean "for the cultus" and the reference is thus to an "act" in divine worship.
C. The End in Jewish Apocalyptic. telos has different senses in apocalyptic according to differing expectations. One use is for the "last time" either as the "latter days" or as a "last epoch" distinct from history in general. This last time will bring the fulfilment of the OT promises. Qumran has the expression "the end of the days." In 4 Esdras the "end" is a culminating time, fixed by God, which embraces great distress, the coming of the Messiah, the judgment, transformation, and salvation. The "end" of this world stands in antithesis to the beginning of the next.
D. The NT.
1. To understand telos and teleo in the NT one must remember their dynamic character; they denote "fulfilment" (cf. Luk 22:37).
2.Means
a. Love is the "goal" of instruction in 1Ti 1:5, salvation is the "goal" of faith in Christ in 1Pe 1:9, and "aim" or "goal" seems to be the point in 1Co 10:11.
b. In Mat 26:58 "issue" or "result" is meant (cf. Jas 5:11; Heb 6:8). The eschatological "result" or "destiny" is at issue in Rom 6:21-22 (cf. also Php 3:19; 2Co 11:15; 1Pe 4:17).
c. The meaning "end" or "conclusion" is less likely than "fulfilment" in Luk 22:37. In Rev 21:6; Rev 22:13 telos, with arche, denotes eternity and majesty. The eschatological end or conclusion is the point in 1Co 15:1-58 and Mar 13:1-37. Prepositional phrases have an adverbial character and carry such meanings as "to the end," "fully," "finally," "wholly," and "continually."
d. The sense "cessation" occurs in Heb 7:3; 2Co 3:13; Luk 1:33; Mar 3:26; Rom 7:4. The narrower context supports this meaning for Rom 10:4, where the point is that the cross abolishes the possibility of attaining to righteousness by the law.
3. "Tax" or "tribute" is the meaning of telos in Mat 17:25; Rom 13:7.
4. The meanings "detachment" and "initiatory act" do not occur in the NT.
E. The Apostolic Fathers. In these works the usage is not very specific. We find such senses as "end" (Ignatius Eph 14.1), "result" (Rom 6:21-22), "goal" (Rom 1:1), "last time" (Hermas Visions 3.8.9). Adverbial uses are for "finally," "always," "without end," "totally," and "completely."
teleo .
See why we need to study?
Behold
Well-known member
Jesus was talking to Jews in your verse.
Jesus knows, at that time... that "all have sinned", and "there is non righteous, no not ONE".
So, why would Jesus tell JEWS, who are sinners, and are not righteous, to be like "Father"., when in fact, God is not the Father of unbelieving anyone, in Matt 5.
God is the Father of the Born again., and in Matt 5, no one was born again.
So, noone can be perfect like God, except for the Son of God., or these.
The "made righteous".. who have become a "new Creation" In Christ", and non of those exist in Matt 5.
All the rest of us, including those in Matt 5, are the "all have sinned".. ."There is non Righteous, no not one"
So, who then is Jesus talking about? As He's referring to being as perfect as God, Himself.., when in Matt 5, He's the only one.
A.) He's not talking to them, as they ARE..........
And that is what I was going to explain to @Studyman since perfect is not sinless perfection but maturity in all spheres of our conduct..
And don't ignore;
2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works.
Rev. 3: 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Luke 6: 40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be "as his master".
James 1: 3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
LOL, It's pretty easy to interpret "Perfect", as God and the Holy Scriptures interpret it. I only need to study the Christ, the Holy One of Israel who became flesh in the person of the Jesus "of the Bible". Truly you would agree that HE is our example of the perfect human. And how can a man say that Paul wasn't "Pressing toward the mark for the Prize of the same high calling of God which was in the Jesus "of the Bible"? Was Jesus not Perfect, even as His Father in Heaven is perfect? Did the Spirit of God inspire the following?
1 John 2: 5 But whoso keepeth his word, "in him" verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, "even as he walked".
This would be the man who strived to be as his master, Yes?
So I get that you have adopted other philosophers, and their interpretation of Paul's meaning regarding what the prize was that he pressed towards, even after falling in the struggle. But because Jesus Himself warned me about the "many" deceivers who come in His Name, I'm going to stick to how God interprets His Word. Unpopular as they have always been to this worlds preachers, "Who profess to know Him".
Again, I appreciate your reply, and you are free to adopt the teaching of anyone you "Yield yourself a servant to obey", but I'm sticking with the Example of perfection that God Sent.
Incorrect-no adoption of philosophers.
whoever keeps his word -- This verse is synonymous with "keeping his commandments" of verse 4. Here, as in 1Jn_1:7; 1Jn_1:9, the opposite of that immediately preceding is stated, and the thought advanced one step further. The "love of God" here contemplated is not God's love for us, but our love for God.
in him -- ἐν τούτῳ in this one. The middle-eastern mind of speaking of a quality or attributed being in a person.
in him this love of [for] God --
truly the love of God -- An accomplished fact, a relation of love has been established.
love of God -- 1) God's love for us, OR 2) our love for God? What did Jesus Himself say? Joh_14:21, Joh_14:23; Our love for God is evident when we keep his Word.
"love of God" NKJV 12 verses, 12 matches = Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; Rom_5:5; Rom_8:39; 2Co_13:14; 2Th_3:5; Tit_3:4; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:17; 1Jn_4:9; 1Jn_5:3; Jud_1:21;
"love of God" ESV 9 verses 9 matches = Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; Rom_8:39; 2Co_13:13; 2Th_3:5; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_4:9; 1Jn_5:3; Jud_1:21;
"love of God" NIV 6 verses, 6 matches, = Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; Rom_8:39; 2Co_13:14; Tit_3:4; 1Jn_3:17;
"love of God" NASB 11 verses, 11 matches = Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; Rom_5:5; Rom_8:39; 2Co_13:14; 2Th_3:5; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:17; 1Jn_4:9; 1Jn_5:3; Jud_1:21;
[Common to all: 1) Luk_11:42; 1) Joh_5:42; 2) Rom_8:39; 2) 2Co_13:14; 1) 1Jn_3:17; ‘
1) Love for God; 2) God's love for me (us)
ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ = (6 nominative s.) Rom_5:5; 2Co_13:13; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:17; 1Jn_4:9; 1Jn_5:3
τὴν ἀγάπην τοῦ θεοῦ = (3 accusative s.) Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; 2Th_3:5
τῆς ἀγάπης τοῦ θεοῦ = (1 genitive s.f.) Rom_8:39;
ἐν ἀγάπῃ θεοῦ = (1 dative s.) Jud_1:21
G26 (love) G2316 (God) {in the same verse} = 32 verses (74 matches) = (G-NT-TR (Steph)+) Luk_11:42; Joh_5:42; Rom_5:5; Rom_5:8; Rom_8:39; Rom_15:30; 2Co_13:11; 2Co_13:14; Eph_2:4; Eph_3:19; Eph_5:2; Eph_6:23; Col_2:2; 1Th_1:3; 2Th_1:3; 2Th_3:5; 1Ti_6:11; 2Ti_1:7; Heb_6:10; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:1; 1Jn_3:17; 1Jn_4:7; 1Jn_4:8; 1Jn_4:9; 1Jn_4:10; 1Jn_4:12; 1Jn_4:16; 1Jn_5:3; 2Jn_1:3; 3Jn_1:6; Jud_1:21;
is perfected -- "Perfected" is perfect passive indicative of teleioo, to stand complete. Thus, he who keeps the commandments of God matures his love, for this is the way in which love for God manifests itself, 1Jn_5:3.
By this we know -- This is how. “Obedience is how we can know we live in fellowship with God!”
we are in him -- ἐν αὐτῷ in him, person pronoun. The words "in him" indicate a relationship of the most intimate nature. The phrase is a summary of all the blessings available from God.
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2:3 "By this we know that we have come to know Him" Literally this is "we know that we have known Him." This is a present active indicative followed by a perfect active indicative emphasizing that the Christians of these traumatized churches can have the full assurance of their salvation in light of the Gnostic false teachings.
The word "know" is used in its Hebrew sense of personal relationship (cf. Gen. 4:1; Jer. 1:5) and its Greek sense of facts about something or someone. The gospel is both a person and a body of truth. The emphases in this phrase are
1. we can know God
2. we can know what He wants for our lives
3. we can know that we know! (cf. 1 John 5:13)
One of the assurances of our relationship with God is revealed by our actions and motives (cf. Matthew 7; James, 1 Peter). This is a recurrent theme of 1 John (cf. 1 John 2:3,5; 3:24; 4:13; 5:2,13).
John's writings use two Greek words for "know" (ginôskô and oida) often (27 times in the five chapters of 1 John) and synonymously. There seems to be no discernable semantic distinction between these terms in Koine Greek. The choice is stylistic. It is also interesting that John does not use the intensified term epiginôskô.
John is writing to encourage believers as well as refute heresy. The Gospel of John and 1 John use the terms for "know" more than any other of the books in the NT. 1 John is a book of assurance based on knowledge of the gospel and commensurate lifestyle love and obedience (cf. The book of James).
"if" This is a third class conditional sentence which means potential action.
"we keep His commandments"
Notice the conditional element (present active subjunctive). The new covenant is unconditional as to God's offer but conditional as to mankind's repentant faith and obedient response (cf. 1 John 2:3-5; 3:22,24; 5:2,3; John 8:51-52; 14:15,21,23; 15:10; Rev. 2:26; 3:8,10; 12:17; 14:12). One of the evidences for true conversion is obedience to the Light (both Jesus and the gospel, cf. Luke 6:46). Even in the OT obedience was better than sacrificial ritual (cf. 1 Sam. 15:22; Jer. 7:22-23). Obedience does not bring or secure salvation, but it does evidence salvation. It is not the basis (cf. Eph. 2:8-9), but the fruit (cf. Eph. 2:10).
2:4 "The one who says" This is the textual marker for John's diatribe format.
"I have come to know Him" This is one of several assertions of the false teachers (cf. 1 John 1:6,8,10; 2:4,6,9). This is a diatribe ("the one who says. . .") similar to Malachi, Romans, and James. The false teachers were claiming to know (perfect tense) God, but were trying to separate salvation from godly living. They were separating justification from sanctification. They claimed superior (i.e., secret) knowledge of God, but their lifestyles revealed their true motives.
"and does not keep His commandments" This is present active participle which speaks of habitual lifestyle action. Our lives reveal our spiritual orientation (cf. Matthew 7). Verse 4 expresses the truth negatively, while verse 5 expresses the same truth positively.
"is a liar" There is nothing worse than self-willed deception! Obedience is evidence of true conversion. You shall know them by their fruit (cf. Matt. 7).
John calls several religious people (teachers, preachers) liars (cf. 1 John 1:6; 2:4,22; 4:20). They are religious but not right with God!
2:5 "but whoever keeps His word" This is present active subjunctive which speaks of habitual lifestyle action. The authors of the UBS' A Handbook on The Letters of John (Haas, Jonge, and Swellengrebel) offer an interesting comment on this Greek construction: "a relative pronoun with the Greek particle, 'an' or 'ean' and the following verb in the subjunctive occurs in 1 John 3:17,22; 4:15; 5:15; 3 John 5. It seems to express generally occurring circumstances" (p. 40). Obedience is a crucial aspect of covenant faith. This is the central message of 1 John and James. One cannot say He knows God and yet reject both the living Word and the written Word by lifestyle sin (cf. 1 John 3:6,9)!
"in him the love of God has truly been perfected" This is a perfect passive indicative which speaks of completed action (cf. 1 John 4:12,17,18). It is uncertain, grammatically speaking, whether the genitive is speaking of
1. God's love for us (cf. 1 John 4:12)
2. our love for God (cf. 1 John 5:3)
3. just God's love in general in our hearts
The term "perfect" (telos cf. 1 John 4:12,17,18) means mature, complete, or fully equipped for an assigned task (cf. Eph. 4:12), not without sin (cf. 1 John 1:8,10).<<-----> guess you are quick on the trigger right @Studyman?
