Who is the creator

Any sin that is realized- that is to say any sin of which we are aware- is a sin for which we are culpable.
Any such sin can and will be forgiven if we confess and repent of said sin.
If we are aware of something that is against God's commandments and we do it anyway, are you saying we can just ask for forgiveness and God is obligated to forgive that willful sin? So I can go commit fornication, get pregnant, and have an abortion thinking I'll just confess this later and God will forgive me? God will not be mocked.

People twist Hebrews 10:26-31 to mean it only has to do with Jews wanting to go back under the law, when it is speaking of just the kind of scenario I gave and it tramples on Christ's blood. No where does it say our future willful sins unto death are forgivable. A true born again Christian CANNOT COMMIT present and future sins unto death. To do so is apostasy and it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

The theology of "past, present, and future sins" is heresy. Only our past sins unto death are forgiven, and not just forgiven but all desire is taken out of our nature making us clean. This is why we cannot commit lawless sins any more. And adding the word practice to multiple verses in the first epistle of John shows a complete lack of understanding of how God sees sin - again, the heresy of "sin is sin." 1 John 1:7 is what happens to unintentional sins not unto death as we walk in the light. These are automatically forgiven and cleansed as Jesus, the Finisher of our faith, and our Advocate matures immature fruit of the Spirit which is the only type of sin that verse is referring to.
Only sin specifically known, confessed and repented of is actually forgiven. Future sin has yet to be committed, and thus there is nothing yet to forgive.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So, Doug, what future sins? Chapter three is about lawless sins unto death, not immature fruit the only type of sin in 1 John 1:7.

I'll finish reading your post tomorrow. Good night, friend.
 
If we are aware of something that is against God's commandments and we do it anyway, are you saying we can just ask for forgiveness and God is obligated to forgive that willful sin?
God is never obligated to do anything simply because we act. God cannot be obligated by anything outside of himself.
So the answer to your question is no!


So I can go commit fornication, get pregnant, and have an abortion thinking I'll just confess this later and God will forgive me?
No, because there is not true sorrow over sin; there is only an attitude of self-preservation- a have your cake and eat it too motivation. Confession is never enough in and of itself; true repentance is the key, thus, Peter answer to the Jews on Pentecost, “Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins” and salvation will come.


God will not be mocked.
No he won’t! “Search me and know my heart; see if there is anything wicked in me..” is the only type of prayer that God responds to positively with forgiveness, in my humble opinion.


Doug
 
People twist Hebrews 10:26-31 to mean it only has to do with Jews wanting to go back under the law, when it is speaking of just the kind of scenario I gave and it tramples on Christ's blood.
Heb 10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning
ἑκουσίως, (he-koo-see-os) means voluntarily or willingly (which I believe we’ve already discussed) with intent.


after we have received the knowledge of the truth,

Subsequent to knowing what sin is, and specifically knowing the sins for which we were forgiven by means of Christ’s blood, death, and resurrection, and therefore cannot plead ignorance or mere weakness for both have been remedied by the gospel.

no sacrifice for sins is left,

Because we are mocking God’s grace by employing it for selfish purposes. This mimics Paul’s opening salvo in Rome 6-

“Shall we continue to sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” Or more accurately “May it never be!” We have purposefully chosen to sin in spite of our full knowledge of the truth.


27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

If forgiveness is not possible due to being unrepentant, then our only expectation is to receive the wrath of the God whose grace we have mocked!

28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

The writer points back to the OT law’s remedy for such acts, and ups the ante for those who would do such a thing.

29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Believers are held to a higher standard, and failure has a more severe consequence of not remedied.

30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God does not set aside his holiness for the sins of believers. Sin is not automatically forgiven without recourse. God is willing to forgive any who repent of their sinful behavior, but deliberately continuing to behave sinfully will not be swept under the rug or shielded by Christ’s blood.


Doug
 
I forgot to copy you on #897. What do you believe in my post to Doug.
I agree that as you said "Or do you believe that as the Author of our faith, Jesus takes away all desire to commit sins unto death, and cleanses our nature so we no longer have a sin nature - we are washed, we are sanctified, we are justified. "

And I agree that the desire, if not immediately taken away it diminished to the point that one can say no to themselves.... for the most part. The most part is a hiccup that we have discussed in a DM a while back.

But I have these at the ready for a reminder for myself....

#2 and #6 are in the same camp and the opening words in #2 I am guilty of. Perhaps you do not see it as a problem... for you have indicated that #6 is the really bad one..... I pray you are right.

What are the seven things God hates?
Overview and Scriptural Context

Proverbs 6:16-19 articulates seven traits or behaviors that are especially offensive in God’s sight:

“There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that run swiftly to evil, a false witness who gives false testimony, and one who stirs up discord among brothers.”

These verses serve as a powerful reminder of the passage’s main point: an unrepentant heart that persists in these attitudes and actions is displeasing to God. While all sin separates us from Him (Romans 3:23), this particular list highlights behaviors that corrode relationships, cultivate injustice, and undermine the unity and well-being of a community.

Below is a thorough exploration of each of these seven condemned behaviors, along with supportive passages and practical considerations for living in alignment with divine wisdom.




1. Haughty Eyes

Haughty or proud eyes describe an arrogant attitude-the sense of looking down on others or exalting oneself. Such pride signals a heart that refuses to acknowledge dependence on God.

Proverbs 16:18 cautions, “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

James 4:6 underscores that “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

A prideful posture often leads to other sinful behaviors by cultivating self-deception and rebellion against divine authority. History shows that empires and individuals who exalted themselves eventually encountered ruin. Both Scripture and behavioral studies consistently demonstrate that humility fosters healthy relationships and personal growth, while pride breeds conflict and causes moral collapse.




2. A Lying Tongue

A lying tongue distorts truth.
Dishonesty can take many forms-outright lies, half-truths, or deception by omission. Each one violates the trust foundational to human relationships and contradicts the very nature of God, who is truthful in all He does (Numbers 23:19).

Ephesians 4:25 exhorts believers, “Each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are members of one another.”

John 8:44 differentiates truth as stemming from God, while lies have their origin with the enemy, named as “the father of lies.”

Modern psychology also confirms that deception undermines relational stability and personal integrity. Societies flourish when honesty is held in high esteem because truthfulness leads to justice, credibility, and lasting peace.




3. Hands that Shed Innocent Blood

This phrase emphasizes the injustice of harming or taking the life of those undeserving of violence. God’s anger against murder stems from the reality that human life is sacred, made in His own image (Genesis 1:27).

Genesis 9:6 states, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man his blood will be shed; for in His own image God has made mankind.”

• Throughout Scripture, the consistent pattern is to protect the innocent, with grave warnings against harming the defenseless (Isaiah 1:17).

Archaeological evidence from the Ancient Near East highlights the stark difference between pagan cultures-where child sacrifice or senseless violence was sometimes promoted-and biblical law, which strictly prohibited such atrocities. These findings reinforce the biblical narrative’s emphasis on the value and sanctity of human life.




4. A Heart that Devises Wicked Schemes

Scheming points to premeditated sin. Rather than stumbling into wrongdoing, an individual with a heart that plots evil actively contrives harmful or deceitful plans. Such deliberation underscored in Scripture presents a deeper level of culpability.

Psalm 36:4 depicts this mindset: “Even on his bed he plots wickedness; he sets himself on a path that is not good; he does not reject evil.”

Jeremiah 17:9 notes, “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure-who can understand it?”

From a behavioral science viewpoint, repeated meditation on harmful intentions desensitizes the conscience. The solution is a transformed heart that seeks God’s wisdom and righteousness, brought about by repentance and a humble spirit (Romans 12:2).




5. Feet that Run Swiftly to Evil

This phrase characterizes eagerness or haste to commit wrongdoing. It expands upon sinful intention, showing a readiness-almost an excitement-to act on evil impulses.

Isaiah 59:7 echoes, “Their feet run to evil; they are swift to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are sinful thoughts; ruin and destruction lie in their wake.”

• In contrast, Romans 10:15 praises the “beautiful feet” of those who carry good news, underlining how one’s choices of direction-spiritual or physical-reflect the nature of one’s heart.

Societally, haste in wrongdoing often leads to deeper cycles of crime or addiction. Moral accountability, community safeguards, and internal renewal can encourage people to be quick to do good rather than to do harm.




6. A False Witness Who Gives False Testimony

Though similar to a “lying tongue,” this situation calls out the specific context of a legal or relational setting where a person consciously testifies falsely. Bearing false witness compromises justice, especially when such lies are used to convict or harm others.

Deuteronomy 19:15-21 includes strict warnings in the Mosaic Law regarding false testimony.

Matthew 26:59-60 mentions the false witnesses who testified against Jesus at His trial, illustrating the devastating consequences of manipulated testimony.

The integrity of any legal system relies on truthful witnesses. When falsehood prevails, innocent individuals suffer, and justice is corrupted. Scholars cite numerous ancient near-eastern legal codes that likewise viewed perjury as a grave offense, recognizing that a flourishing society depends on truthful testimony.




7. One Who Stirs Up Discord Among Brothers

This final warning underscores the harm of creating strife in families, communities, and congregations. Sowing discord damages unity, trust, and peace. Scripturally, believers are called to seek unity, reflecting a God of harmony rather than division (John 17:22-23).

Titus 3:10-11 instructs to warn a divisive person once or twice, then have nothing more to do with them.

Ephesians 4:3 urges believers to be “making every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.”

In both contemporary groups and historical examples, division proves destructive. Studies in organizational psychology confirm that fostering healthy bonds and communal goals thrives best where empathy and clear communication are present. The biblical call to reconciliation and peacemaking provides a spiritual foundation that challenges individuals to build bridges rather than walls.
 
Heb 10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning
ἑκουσίως, (he-koo-see-os) means voluntarily or willingly (which I believe we’ve already discussed) with intent.


after we have received the knowledge of the truth,

Subsequent to knowing what sin is, and specifically knowing the sins for which we were forgiven by means of Christ’s blood, death, and resurrection, and therefore cannot plead ignorance or mere weakness for both have been remedied by the gospel.

no sacrifice for sins is left,

Because we are mocking God’s grace by employing it for selfish purposes. This mimics Paul’s opening salvo in Rome 6-

“Shall we continue to sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” Or more accurately “May it never be!” We have purposefully chosen to sin in spite of our full knowledge of the truth.


27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

If forgiveness is not possible due to being unrepentant, then our only expectation is to receive the wrath of the God whose grace we have mocked!

28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

The writer points back to the OT law’s remedy for such acts, and ups the ante for those who would do such a thing.

29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Believers are held to a higher standard, and failure has a more severe consequence of not remedied.

30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God does not set aside his holiness for the sins of believers. Sin is not automatically forgiven without recourse. God is willing to forgive any who repent of their sinful behavior, but deliberately continuing to behave sinfully will not be swept under the rug or shielded by Christ’s blood.


Doug
I think you perhaps make light of the true meaning of being justified. It is not something that God does following each sin as it is committed by the believer; rather, to be justified is a state of being for the believer. The concept of the "confessional" of the Catholic Church is a seriously flawed doctrine.
 
Who needs English if you can go to the original Greek? Besides, since you can’t answer questions in either language what’s the point?

So again, how is the Son able to claim the honor of the Father as his own if he is less than the Father in quality?

Doug
All known Greek texts of the NT were done from 4th century translating. Very few minor fragments are older that exist.
 
The rich man, was in hell and wanted to go back and warn his brothers about it. If anything, it shows the concern he had for his family. He didn’t want them to end up there with him. Lazarus and Abraham were in Paradise’s comfort; that’s no farse!

Doug
twisting into darkness, that leads one into this sad reality-Luke 17:26=99.9% being mislead to destruction.
 
1Cor 10:
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

27If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

Rom 14:20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.


Doug
That has nothing to do with my post that is 100% fact.
 
The concept of the "confessional" of the Catholic Church is a seriously flawed doctrine.
Just a tidbit. Many years ago we were invited to witness the first Holy Communion for a neighbor child and we went. Nothing special or monumental except for the child's first communion if was special. After there was a lunch we were invited to and sitting at the table the mom said to me about his studies and his first confession he had to make.... (I mean... what bis an 8 year old going to confess? Maybe he shot spitballs at someone?)

Anyway after a bit she leaned over to me and said she had told him how to make it through the confession with a basic fake confession and I always wonder how many who do go actually tell the truth to a priest? IMO it is beyond being a serious flawed doctrine.
 
I think you perhaps make light of the true meaning of being justified.
I don’t “make light” of anything scripture teaches, much less justification. Justification is not a get out of jail free card; nor does it mean just-as if I- never sinned perpetually. It is an after the fact state from God’s point of view on our post-forgiveness standing with him. Legal standings are not impeccable; they are conditioned on laws not being broken.

Now, this said, we have to bring the aspect of relationship into the equation. Relationships are not as ‘cut and dried’ in concept as law, and this is where grace comes in. I think there is an error in the argument that once you are in a family, you are never not family. To be a “legal member” of the family does not necessarily mean that the relationship is intact. Siblings are always legally siblings, but there is often no personal relationship or connection between them.
Grace may be extended by one sibling to another at any given time, but can be equally rejected at any given time. This rejection can and will over time cause and increase the separation of relationship between the parties to the point that one can say, ‘I have a sibling, however, we have been estranged to the point that we are no more than strangers!’

This is why God will say to many who thought they were “family”, “Depart from me; I never knew you!”- meaning I never and an intimate relationship with you.

One final thought: Justification is, according to Paul, a universal principle. In Romans, Paul says, “Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.” (Rom 5:18)

The entirety of humanity is universally condemned because of Adam’s sin, and they are all equally justified because of Christ’s obedience. But this doesn’t mean that relationships are good! They have rejected what Christ did, and any relationship that could have been in the process.

Jesus’s prayer in the garden establishes that relationship is eternal life when he said, “ …this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.“ (John 17:3)


Doug
 
Because we are mocking God’s grace by employing it for selfish purposes. This mimics Paul’s opening salvo in Rome 6-

“Shall we continue to sin so that grace may abound? God forbid!” Or more accurately “May it never be!” We have purposefully chosen to sin in spite of our full knowledge of the truth.
The western church does not know what the true grace of God is. Luther even wrote to "sin boldly." That meant on purpose to show the power of God's grace. Heresies such as that one in the church age of Sardis was why Jesus said, "you have a name/reputation that you are alive, but you are dead." Their teachings were doctrines of demons designed to keep sinning and receive eternal damnation. It wasn't until Revelation 3:4 that people such as John Wesley brought back holiness. But the OSAS crowd still believe those doctrines of demons.
 
The western church does not know what the true grace of God is. Luther even wrote to "sin boldly." That meant on purpose to show the power of God's grace. Heresies such as that one in the church age of Sardis was why Jesus said, "you have a name/reputation that you are alive, but you are dead." Their teachings were doctrines of demons designed to keep sinning and receive eternal damnation. It wasn't until Revelation 3:4 that people such as John Wesley brought back holiness. But the OSAS crowd still believe those doctrines of demons.
As a point of logic, “the western church” does not equate to Luther’s erroneous statement.

This said, while I don’t believe in OSAS, I also don’t think that those who do necessarily believe or practice Luther’s doctrine.

I don’t think that I would hold to your interpretation of Rev 3:4 either, but I don’t want to go to battle or die on that hill. There are in every church age and every individual church those who “have a reputation” or outward appearance of being a Christian, but are not, and those who truly are believers regardless of what others may perceive. Paul told Timothy that there are some “who have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof” (2Tim 3:5), and there are always those types in the church.


Doug
 
All known Greek texts of the NT were done from 4th century translating.
The proper way to say this is “All 4th century translating was done from all known Greek texts.” The Greek texts were not the result of translating, which is precisely what your statement above infers!
Very few minor fragments are older that exist.
We have 5800 Greek texts, from fragmented sections to whole books, today; do you think there were that many used in the 4th century?

Do you think those of the 4th century say anything different than those we have today? Again, 99.5-99.9% of all the words in all the extant copies we possess today are the same from one copy to another. That is a less that .05 discrepancy rate. I’ll take that to the track every time!


Doug
 
twisting into darkness, that leads one into this sad reality-Luke 17:26=99.9% being mislead to destruction.
Specifically why is my assertion about the Rich man and Lazarus wrong? Why can’t you deal with the text, @Keiw1?

And what does “Lk17:26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man” have to do with anything being discussed? Perhaps this applies to you?

If I am “twisting in the darkness” why don’t you stop me from doing so biblically? Trite responses like yours do nothing but dissuade me from your opinion.


Doug
 
That has nothing to do with my post that is 100% fact.
You said:
The other true mark=1Cor 1:10)= unity of thought( all of Gods truth) no division=1 single religion, not hundreds.- These are no part of this world= would never be mislead to cast votes for corrupt politicians in the corrupt govts on Earth=standing in opposition to Gods king. Would never partake in the worlds celebrations that are loaded with pagan garbage straight off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) like Easter and Christmas are), Etc.

1Cor 10:25-ff are the take home meaning of what Paul was saying in verses 14-22. It means nothing remotely close to what you are saying by cherry picking a single verse out of context. This has nothing to do with Easter or Christmas celebrations.

Think, Keiw1, think for yourself not just what you are told to think!


Doug
 
I don’t “make light” of anything scripture teaches, much less justification. Justification is not a get out of jail free card; nor does it mean just-as if I- never sinned perpetually. It is an after the fact state from God’s point of view on our post-forgiveness standing with him. Legal standings are not impeccable; they are conditioned on laws not being broken.

Now, this said, we have to bring the aspect of relationship into the equation. Relationships are not as ‘cut and dried’ in concept as law, and this is where grace comes in. I think there is an error in the argument that once you are in a family, you are never not family. To be a “legal member” of the family does not necessarily mean that the relationship is intact. Siblings are always legally siblings, but there is often no personal relationship or connection between them.
Grace may be extended by one sibling to another at any given time, but can be equally rejected at any given time. This rejection can and will over time cause and increase the separation of relationship between the parties to the point that one can say, ‘I have a sibling, however, we have been estranged to the point that we are no more than strangers!’

This is why God will say to many who thought they were “family”, “Depart from me; I never knew you!”- meaning I never and an intimate relationship with you.

One final thought: Justification is, according to Paul, a universal principle. In Romans, Paul says, “Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.” (Rom 5:18)

The entirety of humanity is universally condemned because of Adam’s sin, and they are all equally justified because of Christ’s obedience. But this doesn’t mean that relationships are good! They have rejected what Christ did, and any relationship that could have been in the process.

Jesus’s prayer in the garden establishes that relationship is eternal life when he said, “ …this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.“ (John 17:3)


Doug
But Justification is not a "condition" that one bounces out of with each sin and back into with each forgiveness by God. It is a state of being. One is justified by faith in God. One remains justified by faith in God. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith.

With respect to Romans 5:18 [and 19], By the righteous act of Jesus what might have been the result of Adam's trespass was overcome for all humanity. What might have been the case for all humanity due to the trespass of Adam right from birth was negated for all humanity due to the act of righteousness of Jesus right from birth. In other words, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ wiped out any effect of Adam's sin for all mankind. Man is born clean and pure of all unrighteousness. Any unrighteousness of a man is due to him, not anyone or anything else.
 
One is justified by faith in God. One remains justified by faith in God. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith.
Only if we continue in faith. That’s why perseverance is urged so often, for instance, when Paul told Timothy, in 1Tim 4:16:

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

The question is, if one doesn’t persevere, do they then still save themselves and others? Does not the “if” factor make “saving yourself and your hearers” a conditional outcome on the persevering?


Doug
 
The proper way to say this is “All 4th century translating was done from all known Greek texts.” The Greek texts were not the result of translating, which is precisely what your statement above infers!

We have 5800 Greek texts, from fragmented sections to whole books, today; do you think there were that many used in the 4th century?

Do you think those of the 4th century say anything different than those we have today? Again, 99.5-99.9% of all the words in all the extant copies we possess today are the same from one copy to another. That is a less that .05 discrepancy rate. I’ll take that to the track every time!


Doug
Your darkness is clear to all. All know Jesus was never with Catholicism, they are these 2Thess 2:3 and now her hundreds of branches are as well. Catholicism by satans will altered translation to mislead to destruction. He murdered all of you centuries ago. Luke 17:26)
 
Specifically why is my assertion about the Rich man and Lazarus wrong? Why can’t you deal with the text, @Keiw1?

And what does “Lk17:26“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man” have to do with anything being discussed? Perhaps this applies to you?

If I am “twisting in the darkness” why don’t you stop me from doing so biblically? Trite responses like yours do nothing but dissuade me from your opinion.


Doug
I did deal with it. Your darkness will not listen-If one in heaven can actually look down and see family members suffering like that, that one would have no joy.
 
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