Who is the creator
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
e v e
Active Member
and it is interesting that mormon religion , sadly , views adam as their god
completely buying into the fallen situation....
i can see why... adam as an eden soul was
the topic of lucifer chapter
and probably do beguiling to
what we are now ...
so helpless humans
and brilliant ...
yet
but
he betrayed God
what a horror.
and here we are.
he became a total monster in league with
satan.
completely buying into the fallen situation....
i can see why... adam as an eden soul was
the topic of lucifer chapter
and probably do beguiling to
what we are now ...
so helpless humans
and brilliant ...
yet
but
he betrayed God
what a horror.
and here we are.
he became a total monster in league with
satan.
charismaticlady
Active Member
In general does the Weslyan church believe in cessationism? Do you? The little church that split from the UMC does not. Though I haven't heard anyone there speak in tongues or use any of the other gifts besides healing.
e v e
Active Member
it is so an irrelevant theme
in the grand picture.
who cares.
what matters is get out of this dungeon
and be with christ soon
charismaticlady
Active Member
Do you believe the Trinity is 3 persons, or 3 what?
charismaticlady
Active Member
I'd like to know outside of mono and poly, which we can agree to disagree, what do I believe that you don't. I'm not sure how far off we are.
Let me ask you a question about Weslyan that you also believe. How would you define grace, and from what scripture, if any. I'm not going to ask more than one question at a time.
I think I've got two questions out there for you. I'll stop for now.
e v e
Active Member
God, His feminine Spirit and Christ ...
with Christ representing and leading all God's sons and daughters, His actual not adopted eden souls.
the pagan trinity exists as well, an ugly oneness concept augustine openly followed, received from plato. satan likes to copy.
charismaticlady
Active Member
Not necessarily all the angels. It could also be translated over their designated country. Each country has more than one angel, but one archangel, its prince. So you could say that over one country their archangel is chief.
You are confusing Michael the Archangel with The Angel of the Lord. It is the Angel of the Lord that allowed worship and was the pre-existed Jesus, a theophany, not the prince of Israel. Your mind just won't let you go there will it, not even a crack. How do you expect to keep growing?
charismaticlady
Active Member
I'm over it, so don't worry about it. I still love discussing matters with you so don't ignore me.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Michel was the word in Genesis ! and is Gods voice there?
The interesting thing is that the when the Holy Spirit came to impregnate Mary, and she bore the Son.. that He truly would have been 1/2 human and 1/2 Angel.
Actually, if you think about it that does make sense because Michael was a warrior which somewhat could be reflected in Jesus when he in Matt 21:12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
The NWT tells us that in John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.
So if even the NWT says that the Word capital W became flesh, this would have been Jesus.
Only possible conclusion is that Michel was in the beginning speaking the creation in Genesis ergo Michael was the Word.....
Is that not so @Keiw1 ????????????????????????????????/
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@charismaticlady
Just an FYI
In looking up something for someone else I ran across this statement....
Archangel in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic teachings
Michael, also called Archangel Michael or Michael the Taxiarch, is an archangel and the warrior of God in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. The earliest surviving mentions of his name are in third- and second-century BC Jewish works, often but not always apocalyptic, where he is the chief of the angels and archangels, and he is the guardian prince of Israel and is responsible for the care of the people of Israel Continued in Wikipedia
this Wiki article says plural archangels.............
So I did a very quick search and Search Assist posted this
Search Assist
The Bible specifically names Michael as the only archangel, but the term "archangels" can refer to a broader category in various religious traditions and texts, which may include other angels like Gabriel and Raphael. Additionally, some interpretations and extra-biblical sources mention multiple archangels, leading to the plural usage.
Wikipedia
Christianity.com
Just thought I would let you know that this may be why people think of more then one..... One other I saw says
The concept of Seven Archangels is found in some works of early Jewish literature and in Christianity. In those texts, they are referenced as the angels who serve God directly. The Catholic Church venerates seven archangels: in Latin Christianity, three are invoked by name while the Eastern Catholic Churches name seven. Lutheranism and Anglicanism's traditions generally recognize four known archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and sometimes Uriel. Non denominational Protestant churches often venerate only Gabriel and Michael. In the Coptic tradition, the Seven Archangels are Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Surael, Sedakiel, Sarathael, and Ananael. In parts of Oriental Orthodox Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Eight Archangels may be honoured, including Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, as well as Salathiel, Jegudiel, Barachiel, and Jeremiel. The Eight Archangels are commemorated on the Feast of the Archangels Continued in Wikipedia
So maybe once we have crossed over out of this world we will learn the real truth
Just an FYI
In looking up something for someone else I ran across this statement....
Michael
Archangel in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic teachings
Michael, also called Archangel Michael or Michael the Taxiarch, is an archangel and the warrior of God in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. The earliest surviving mentions of his name are in third- and second-century BC Jewish works, often but not always apocalyptic, where he is the chief of the angels and archangels, and he is the guardian prince of Israel and is responsible for the care of the people of Israel Continued in Wikipedia
this Wiki article says plural archangels.............
So I did a very quick search and Search Assist posted this
Search Assist
The Bible specifically names Michael as the only archangel, but the term "archangels" can refer to a broader category in various religious traditions and texts, which may include other angels like Gabriel and Raphael. Additionally, some interpretations and extra-biblical sources mention multiple archangels, leading to the plural usage.
WikipediaJust thought I would let you know that this may be why people think of more then one..... One other I saw says
Seven Archangels
The concept of Seven Archangels is found in some works of early Jewish literature and in Christianity. In those texts, they are referenced as the angels who serve God directly. The Catholic Church venerates seven archangels: in Latin Christianity, three are invoked by name while the Eastern Catholic Churches name seven. Lutheranism and Anglicanism's traditions generally recognize four known archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and sometimes Uriel. Non denominational Protestant churches often venerate only Gabriel and Michael. In the Coptic tradition, the Seven Archangels are Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Surael, Sedakiel, Sarathael, and Ananael. In parts of Oriental Orthodox Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Eight Archangels may be honoured, including Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, as well as Salathiel, Jegudiel, Barachiel, and Jeremiel. The Eight Archangels are commemorated on the Feast of the Archangels Continued in Wikipedia
So maybe once we have crossed over out of this world we will learn the real truth
charismaticlady
Active Member
Jesus physically resurrected as same Jesus, was he then also Michael?
Do you hold to the heresy of modualism/Oneness then?
All 3 persons appeared at the water Baptism of Jesus
You deny the Blessed trinity, correct?
charismaticlady
Active Member
Thanks. Yes, there are more than one archangel. And I'm glad this recognizes him as being the archangel of Israel. I like the term guardian prince. As I've been saying there are also demonic archangels: the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece in Daniel 10.@charismaticlady
Just an FYI
In looking up something for someone else I ran across this statement....
Michael
Archangel in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic teachings
Michael, also called Archangel Michael or Michael the Taxiarch, is an archangel and the warrior of God in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. The earliest surviving mentions of his name are in third- and second-century BC Jewish works, often but not always apocalyptic, where he is the chief of the angels and archangels, and he is the guardian prince of Israel and is responsible for the care of the people of Israel Continued in Wikipedia
this Wiki article says plural archangels.............
So I did a very quick search and Search Assist posted this
Search Assist
The Bible specifically names Michael as the only archangel, but the term "archangels" can refer to a broader category in various religious traditions and texts, which may include other angels like Gabriel and Raphael. Additionally, some interpretations and extra-biblical sources mention multiple archangels, leading to the plural usage.
Just thought I would let you know that this may be why people think of more then one..... One other I saw says
Seven Archangels
The concept of Seven Archangels is found in some works of early Jewish literature and in Christianity. In those texts, they are referenced as the angels who serve God directly. The Catholic Church venerates seven archangels: in Latin Christianity, three are invoked by name while the Eastern Catholic Churches name seven. Lutheranism and Anglicanism's traditions generally recognize four known archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and sometimes Uriel. Non denominational Protestant churches often venerate only Gabriel and Michael. In the Coptic tradition, the Seven Archangels are Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Surael, Sedakiel, Sarathael, and Ananael. In parts of Oriental Orthodox Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Eight Archangels may be honoured, including Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, as well as Salathiel, Jegudiel, Barachiel, and Jeremiel. The Eight Archangels are commemorated on the Feast of the Archangels Continued in Wikipedia
So maybe once we have crossed over out of this world we will learn the real truth
Personally, I couldn't care less about "Christian" extra-biblical traditions, but Jewish would be intriguing. I'm not sure how old the Apocrypha is. Do you?
As I seem to recall, the Book of Enoch may have some names in it, which is BC. But I believe liberties were taken with it at later dates, and what may have actually been canonical and inspired was added to by man disqualifying it. "Guardians" is a lot like "Watchers" don't you think?
TibiasDad
Active Member
Generally speaking, I would say yes, however, that is not my position personally. I do not place limits on how God may choose to accomplish things. I do think that the circumstances in 30 AD are very different from those today, and tongues are not as necessary today as it was on Pentecost.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
The Trinity is three persons who have three distinct identities and roles. All three are present independently at Jesus’s baptism. The Father spoke, and the Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove.
Doug
charismaticlady
Active Member
No, no matter what my friend, Doug surmises. LOL But I have asked the oneness pastor about the Father and the Holy Spirit, and he said there are times when Jesus appears as the Father or the Spirit, but they are all Jesus. So they are not denying the Father and Spirit. That is what I had always wondered.
But I also am not a buyer of total polytheism. Three separate persons, when we humans are made in their (Elohim is plural word) image. 1 Thes. 5:23 - one human is made up of spirit, soul and body. Three distinct and separate parts of the whole. In other words, I am not three people. But I would also clarify that they are not bigger together, than each part separately. Since the resurrection, they are all omnipresent, making them each part of the other, which you will now argue is the mod squad speaking, I suppose.
I don't think I fit in either category. I do not see Jesus appearing as only the Father at one time, and the Holy Spirit at another time, as what seemed to be explained to me at the oneness church when all of them are present together. Like at the Transfiguration and His baptism, the Father speaks, and the HS descended upon Him like a dove. They are all equally God. One God, not Three God's.
To me both sides have legitimate truth and should not be thinking less of the other point of view. You may not believe this, but in heaven people on both sides will be there. And unfortunately, the same can be said of hell.
@TibiasDad
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