That is error--Heb1:4 assures Jesus became better than the angels by the name( Jesus) God gave to him.
Who is the creator
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
This world will find out very soon. Jesus leads the JW,s. His teachings in every translation on Earth prove its fact.
According to the darkness, its they who condemn the NWT-Why?-It exposes all those religions as false. They cannot have that and survive to collect billions of $$$$$ year after year.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
These did a terrific job don't you think?
ܒܪܫܝܬ ܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܗܘܐ ܡܠܬܐ ܘܗܘ ܡܠܬܐ ܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܗܘܐ ܠܘܬ ܐܠܗܐ ܘܐܠܗܐ ܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܗܘܐ ܗܘ ܡܠܬܐ
1 In the beginning there was The Miltha {The Word}, and He, The Miltha {The Word}, was with Alaha {God}. And Alaha {God} Himself was The Miltha {The Word}.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
And they did this without the benefit of knowing the languages.
That is a very special talent.
The god of this world is a great deceiver — and confident ignorance is still his favorite tool.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Heb 1:3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word…
Note the present tense, indicative description of the Son, indicating the current state of what the Son existed as at the time of “becoming”! The Son is the radiance of God’s glory, and is the exact representation of God’s being.
Both of these attributes indicate that “the Son” is necessarily eternal in existence; for otherwise, God’s glory was once without radiance, and that since being eternally existent is part of God’s being, the Son’s possession of all these things means he must also be God!
…After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
The Son, meaning the incarnate Christ, “became” only because he became human in addition to his being God. It doesn’t mean the Son began to exist as a being, but that being the incarnate God began at the point his physical nature was born.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”
Heb 1:5 completely invalidates any argument proposing that the Son was ever an angel. It also indicates that he was always a Son in God’s eyes.
Doug
charismaticlady
Active Member
This blows my mind if it is true. I've got two copies of the NWT and can't find them. So tell me. Did JWs really add the word "other" to your so called translation of John 1?
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charismaticlady
Active Member
You're right. My bad. You DIDN'T say Gabriel was an archangel. So where does it say Gabriel is a prince.
Your wrong about archangels having one prince over them. They are all princes. Prince of Persia, Prince of Greece, and Daniel's prince - Michael, the Prince of Israel.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Are you talking about this verse.......?
This is NWT Study Edition from the JW.org
According to John
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. <>2 </a> This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
I have looked at a number of them online and John 1:1 reads the same.
No reputabl Greek scholar sees it as anything than a badly translated version that seeks to support JW heresies
Your Jesus does, a fake one , not the true One
God thre father gave to Jesus name Lord, and all shall bow down and confess and worship Jesus as Lord
charismaticlady
Active Member
That's what I get for jumping in the middle of someone else's conversation. That's why I tried to find my two copies. One is older than the other and I wanted to see if they made this change (adding "other") in 2013.
Comparing to NKJV that I always use: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
3
CH All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (CH is short for Christian)
JW All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
YLT says: 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.
How I see "the Word" is "the Mouth." The Father is invisible, but He has a mouth. So that mouth IS GOD through which He delivers His words. They are one being, along with God's Spirit. They are a triune being, a trinity. Not three persons. Man is also a triune being and we only have to read 1 Thes. 5:23 to see one triune person. I still call myself a Trinitarian, just have more truth about it than most trinitarians, because I let the Bible do my thinking.
JW's god must not have always had a mouth a part of him... until he created it.
cc: @Keiw1, @TibiasDad
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charismaticlady
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
They never comment on the actual Word as used in John 1. As they insist he was a god and not God I see that as being polytheism. But more then that they feel Jesus and Michael were one in the same.... which cannot even be translated into anything that says anything, and leaves the Word out of John 1:1 and 14 where it says the Word became flesh.
I wonder if they believe Michel did the creating?
charismaticlady
Active Member
I can't remember for sure. I've talked to them in the past, and just seem to remember that they believe that in the beginning the pre-existant Jesus as "the word" was the first thing Jehovah created.
What did you think about what I said at the end.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You mean aall of this? I personally see the Word as separate,= 3 persons.
This you may be on to something. They sure are a bunch of odd thinkers.
And they are into polytheism whether the admit it or not.
charismaticlady
Active Member
This:
JW's god must not have always had a mouth a part of him... until he created it.
TibiasDad
Active Member
You are speaking of three aspects, or three parts of a whole, not a unity of essence. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct and independent personal beings that are united in the quality of existence that they share.
The Son is not merely “the mouth” of God, for that would beg the question of who is the ear, or the foot, or the eye. Do not all three speak and command? Thus, are not all three “the mouth”?
When the Son prays to the Father, he is not speaking to himself.
Doug
charismaticlady
Active Member
We are made in their likeness. 1 Thes. 5:23 : spirit, soul and body. I am one person.
Seeing as it is our mouth that my words come through, that is why I used that as an analogy of the Word. Each of us are a triune being, not three people.
Use the Bible - 1 Thes. 5:23, not your denomination.
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