Jesus teaches the opposite-John 20:17, Rev 3:12-John 17:3-- Who do you trust and believe?
Who is the creator
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
Its you not understanding those teachings correctly. God called Moses God capitol G, but Moses is not a God in reality. Thus an alternate meaning is involved. Just like what you shared.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Once a heretic, always a heretic.
charismaticlady
Active Member
Angels? Wasn't Mary the human mother of Jesus? Wasn't His Father, God? That makes Jesus God, not a god. And Michael is an angel, a created being, but not begotten by God.
What you need to know about archangels. Every country has its own archangel. Evil countries also have an archangels, but fallen angels all called princes. Like in Daniel 10, Persia's archangel is their prince. And the prince of Greece would rule next. Michael is the archangel of Israel, not the whole world. Jesus is not Michael, but JW's are not the only ones to think this. Seventh-day Adventists know that before being born of a woman, Mary, the Word of God was called the Angel of the Lord. He is the only 'angel' mentioned in the Old Testament that allowed Himself to be worshiped. All other angels, even Gabriel would not allow worship. Adventists believe that Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, but erroneously believe He is Michael the Archangel, just as you do. The difference between JW's and SDA's, SDA's know that Jesus is God.
Last edited:
charismaticlady
Active Member
Keiw, what scripture are you referring to about Moses?
God sent a being from heaven who was named Jesus as a mortal. Others saw Jesus was Michael before the JW,s. Michael is #2 in command of everything. He is the only one called archangel. Chief of the angels.
The bible evidence is clear, the mislead refuse to believe it. They teach God came down here. The bible teaches, God sent another( John 3:16)
Exodus 7:1
TibiasDad
Active Member
Actually, he said “I will make you like a God or god to Pharaoh..”
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
New Living Translation
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet.
English Standard Version
And the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Berean Standard Bible
The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
New King James Version
So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
New American Standard Bible
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
NASB 1995
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
NASB 1977
Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Legacy Standard Bible
Then Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I set you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Amplified Bible
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Now hear this: I make you as God to Pharaoh [to declare My will and purpose to him]; and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Christian Standard Bible
The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.
American Standard Version
And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Contemporary English Version
The LORD said: I am going to let your brother Aaron speak for you. He will tell your message to the king, just as a prophet speaks my message to the people.
English Revised Version
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD answered Moses, "I have made you a god to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron is your prophet.
Good News Translation
The LORD said, "I am going to make you like God to the king, and your brother Aaron will speak to him as your prophet.
International Standard Version
The LORD told Moses, "Listen! I've positioned you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
NET Bible
So the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
New Heart English Bible
The LORD said to Moses, "Look, I have made you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
World English Bible
Yahweh said to Moses, “Behold, I have made you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
And YHWH says to Moses, “See, I have given you [as] a god to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron is your prophet;
Young's Literal Translation
And Jehovah saith unto Moses, 'See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;
Smith's Literal Translation
And Jehovah will say to Moses, See, I gave thee a God to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharao: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Catholic Public Domain Version
And the Lord said to Moses: “Behold, I have appointed you as the god of Pharaoh. And Aaron, your brother, will be your prophet.
New American Bible
The LORD answered Moses: See! I have made you a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.
New Revised Standard Version
The LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
AND the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And LORD JEHOVAH said to Moshe: “See that I have given you as a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your Prophet
Doug
It says--I will make you God to Pharoah.
TibiasDad
Active Member
“I have made thee a god—"made," that is, set, appointed; "a god"; that is, he was to act in this business as God's representative, to act and speak in His name and to perform things beyond the ordinary course of nature. The Orientals familiarly say of a man who is eminently great or wise, "he is a god" among men.”
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
I have made thee a god - Or "appointed thee." See the margin reference. Moses will stand in this special relation to Pharaoh, that God will address him by a prophet, i. e. by one appointed to speak in His name. The passage is an important one as illustrating the primary and essential characteristic of a prophet, he is the declarer of God's will and purpose.
Barnes Notes on the Bible (Ibid)
See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh . . . —This is God’s answer to the objection of Moses that his lips were uncircumcised (Exodus 6:12), and probably followed it immediately. The force of it would seem to be: “Thou art not called on to speak, but to act. In action thou wilt be to Pharaoh as a god—powerful, wonder-working, irresistible; it is Aaron who will have to speak to him, and he is eloquent” (Exodus 4:14).
Ellicott’s Bible Commentary (Ibid)
The literal Hebrew says that God is sending Moses to Pharaoh “as God” and “Aaron , your brother, as your prophet.” Meaning as God is God to Moses and Moses is God’s messenger (prophet), so Moses will be as God to Pharaoh and Aaron will be Moses prophet to speak on his behalf (because of Moses speech impediment).
Doug
Last edited:
charismaticlady
Active Member
Again, what you need to know about archangels. Every country has its own archangel. Evil countries also have an archangels, but fallen angels all called princes. Like in Daniel 10, Persia's archangel is their prince. And the prince of Greece would rule next. Michael is the archangel of Israel, not the whole world. Jesus is not Michael. The prince of Israel is Michael. To Daniel, Gabriel said, "Michael is your prince. Daniel was a Jew. In Jude, Michael and Satan were fighting over the body of Moses. Why? Because Moses was a Jew.
JW's are not the only ones to think this. Seventh-day Adventists know that before being born of a woman, Mary, the Word of God was called the Angel of the Lord. He is the only 'angel' mentioned in the Old Testament that allowed Himself to be worshiped. All other angels, even Gabriel would not allow worship. Adventists believe that Jesus was the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, but erroneously believe He is Michael the Archangel, just as you do. The difference between JW's and SDA's, SDA's know that Jesus is God.
Jesus is called, the Prince of Peace. That is not an archangel. In the same verse, Jesus is also called, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father and Wonderful Counselor. Jesus is the "Child" Isaiah 9:6.
Jesus is the body of God. But the Father is His MIND. The mind is always greater than the body, but they are still one person. A weight-lifter only cares about his body, but he could be dumb as a snail.
We experience progressive sanctification after having been now justified
The JW NWT is very bad translation, as they inserted into text own heresies, regardless of what the Greek text actually had stated
Per JW Kingdom interlinear, Thomas called jesus 'the lord of me and the God of me" per the greek text
The Greek Grammar and construction in the Greek text would indicate that John was referencing to us the concept that one cannot be living in a habitual lifestyle of sinning, not that he saw sinless perfection state
charismaticlady
Active Member
The Bible doesn't teach that it is sanctification that is what the process is named. There is a process, but God calls it "glorification," and means something on a whole other level that what you probably believe the process of sanctification results in. By the way, what have you been taught happens during your erroneous process of sanctification?
In parts of the Church, the process of sanctification is overcoming sin. They also do not accept the 3,500 year old teaching of in God's eyes the two different types of sin, sins unto death and sins not unto death 1 John 5:16-17, and Numbers 15:22-36. Instead, 500 years ago they thought of sin in only one light - "sin is sin" so we always either feel guilty, or hopeless - a true doctrine of demons I call defeatism. That is why to them 1 John 1:9 is not how to become a Christian as its counter-verse, Acts 2:38, "Repent, ... and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" means. Instead, they use 1 John 1:9 over and over every time they sin, even a "sin not unto death." Why? Because to them, an immature fruit has the same result as murder! NO! Breaking God's law is lawlessness, sins unto death, what the whole chapter of 1 John 3 and Romans 6 (the wages of sin is death) are all about - not immature fruit of the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:2-11 is all about maturing the fruit of the Spirit which are sins NOT unto death. Even the RCC knew that calling the two mortal sins and venial sins, but the Reformation did not include that truth in their perverted doctrine. Probably because they wanted to change everything they thought originated with the RCC, not realizing that doctrine was 3,000 years old.
Romans 8:30, JF open your mind and take notice that sanctification is notably NOT listed. Why? Because it is the result of justification, which is the name of being washed and set apart for holiness. (set apart is sanctification).
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
That is in this lifetime. Not after we are dead as is heretically taught. That is why Jesus said in Revelation 3:1 "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." That is to the church age of Sardis, otherwise known as the Reformation and Protestantism. Jesus was referring to how they taught about sin. It is where the taking away of past sins, became also present and future sins unto death.
Glorification is the process after Jesus has taken away the most damning of the two types of sin - the sins unto DEATH called lawlessness, allowing us to be able to inherit eternal LIFE. My sin unto death was adultery. That is one of the commandments of God. A lawless sin unto death. I thank God every day that He took away that sin out of its source - my sin nature. Born again Christians now have a clean nature as before Adam sinned when he was first created by God. Yes, we still have free will, BUT what Adam didn't have was the infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is why we CANNOT SIN. And by the next morning after being born again of the Spirit Wed. night, 2/9/77 (I was 30 years old). I no longer desired my lover. And looking back to the night before, I remembered physically feeling a dark heaviness lift out of my body. Being born again is a physical as well as spiritual experience. Unfortunately, many church fathers who could not relate to that experience and still had their sin nature intact, perverted the word of God to fit their own lack of experiencing being born again.
The process of glorification is maturing in all of the fruit of the Spirit, the sins not unto death. That is the difference between justification and glorification. Justification is being made righteous. Glorification is being made holy. Revelation 22:11.
cc: @TibiasDad, Can't remember if you ever heard this last paragraph above teaching of mine.
Thomas most assuredly looked to heaven saying-my God. He knew 100% the Messiah has a God( Psalm 45:7) all Israelites knew that.--None who have a God, are God.
1 archangel named in Gods bible=Michael. No worship goes to him-EVER. Catholicism put worship. Obeisance to a king is correct for Jesus.
Isaiah said-his NAME will be called those things= not him.
Jesus is a mortal--Michael is the spirit God sent to become a mortal.
Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) screwed up translation centuries ago. God fixed it-The New world translation. Reality = ones eternal life depends on having( John 4:22-24) truth, thus all are putting eternal life into Catholicism translating( all protestant NT translating came from this) And JW translating= Gods fix so truth can be known.
The removal of Gods name from his bible is one of the biggest atrocities ever to occur, it misleads all into darkness( they find little light)-The JW,s put it back, condemned by the ones owned by satan.
TibiasDad
Active Member
I affirm that “one cannot be living in a habitual lifestyle of sinning” and deny “sinless perfection” in this life, if that infers the inability to sin.
My interpretation is a halfway point.
1) Believers should not practice sin, thus, believers are capable of not sinning at any particular point of reference.
2) If we are capable of not sinning at any particular point of reference, then the potential to not sin for any span of time is also possible.
3) If the potential to not sin for any span of time is possible, then there is no necessary point in which sin becomes a necessity.
Now, Wesley’s argument is that to sin means a willful act against a known law of God. This is Paul’s argument in Rom 7, wherein where the is no law, there is no culpability for transgression: “8…For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.”
Unintentionally sinning becomes intentional once we become conscious of the “law” that was broken and we do not repent of that infraction or continue to commit it after being informed by the law of its error.
If I never become aware of my infraction- however that ignorance is enforced by circumstance- I have no means of conscious culpability to repent or confess.
So, in summary, for those who follow the Spirit, “the full requirements of the law” can be “fully met” (Rom 8:4) Thus, if this is true, the believer should embrace the potential and power of not having to sin at any given point of time. As John wrote in his first epistle, “1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
We should not sin, and we don’t have to; but we are still capable of sinning, and if we do, there is a remedy for our sin, “and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
Doug
Similar threads
