DavidTree
Active Member
Proverbs 8:22 is personifying wisdom.
GOSPEL of John ch1
A.) In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
B.) HE was in the Beginning with God.
C.) All things were created through HIM
Who is the creator
- Thread starter Keiw1
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GOSPEL of John ch1
A.) In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
B.) HE was in the Beginning with God.
C.) All things were created through HIM
Every translation on Gods Earth with his name removed against his will in over 7000 spots, mislead all who use them in support of satans will. He wanted Gods name removed to mislead. Jesus became wisdom( 1Cor 1:30)
DavidTree
Active Member
“Holy(1) , Holy(2), Holy(3) is Yahweh of Hosts;
all the earth is full of His glory.” - Isaiah 6:3
Holy(1) - Holy(2) - Holy(3)
Yahweh(1) Elohim(2) Almighty(3)
Who Was(1) and Is(2) and Is to Come(3)!” - Revelation 4:8
Elohim is 3 in the Gospel
If you love Me/Jesus, keep My commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Elohim is 3 in Genesis
1;26 - Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness
1:27 - So Elohim created man in His own image; in the image of Elohim He created him; male and female He created them.
“Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim, Yahweh is Echad! = Yahweh says: I and My Father are Echad
Yes HE created, not the us at Gen 1:26-US= Jehovah( architect, creator) and his master worker( builder) Jesus.
That word holy does mean what you put.
Jesus isn't Yahweh. Jehovah = YHVH) -- YESHUA=Jesus, yes he and his Father are one= in purpose. The living to do the Fathers will, as the true followers do as well becoming one with them( Matt 7:21)
TibiasDad
Active Member
As I have said in another thread regarding this verse, Wisdom cannot be created , for that implies a time wherein it didn’t exist. But God has always existed, and he was never lacking in wisdom. Thus, “possessed” is the only logical meaning for qanah.
“The Word was with God…” and the Word created all that has been created! It does not say the Word created all other things; it says “all things” and continues to state that nothing that has been made was made without him.
Moreover, when John says “In the beginning was the Word”, he is saying that at the point prior to creation that the Word “was”, past tense, already existing. Only one who is eternally existent can be existent before the creation of “all things” that have been created.
“Through” means ‘by means of’. Which, again, means that the means through whom creation is created is already existent to be able to create.
Doug
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Paul is not saying Jesus changed into an abstract attribute (as if “wisdom” is all He is). Rather, he is saying that God’s wisdom is now embodied, revealed, and applied to us in Christ.
In the Greek, ἐγενήθη σοφία (egenēthē sophia) means “came to be / became” for us—that is, in God’s saving action, Christ is the way divine wisdom is made known and effective.
Soteriology: Paul immediately explains what this “wisdom” looks like...
“But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God—righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”
So Christ does not merely teach wisdom—He is God’s wisdom acting on our behalf.
Is that a problem for you?
TibiasDad
Active Member
Total fabrication! The use of LORD (all caps) was used to represent Yahweh out of respect for the name of God. No one wanted to misrepresent the Name. People knew who was meant by LORD just as I know what you mean by forgetting the apostrophe in “God’s Earth”.
Doug
Prov 8= wisdom personified--it is Jesus who is Gods master worker = the one who was beside God during creation( Prov 8:30)--Jesus became wisdom for us.1Cor 1:30)
0 doubt in all creation-- Jesus = the one who was beside God during creation-Prov 8:30--He is Gods master worker.
But then in NT it says 1 Cor 8:6--One God to all = Father, one Lord= Jesus--So when all mislead see LORD in OT they think its Jesus and its not.
TibiasDad
Active Member
If Jesus is Lord of Lords, is he Lord of the Lord too?
Isa 45:11“This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
Which Lord is Isaiah speaking of here? Can Jesus be Lord of Lords and the one through whom creation finds its being? “He is either Lord of all or not at all”, as the old Josh McDowell saying goes. There is no other Lord besides him, so there is no being higher than him! Therefore, he is God, for there is none higher than him!
As Isaiah further says in Isa 45: 18For this is what the Lord says—
he who created the heavens,
he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth,
he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty,
but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:
“I am the Lord,
and there is no other.
If Jesus is “King of Kings and Lord of Lords”- why else would he have that tattooed on his thigh after all if he wasn’t- and Yahweh says “I am the Lord and there is no other”, which one is lying?
Is not God Almighty the highest Lord of all? How can Jesus intrinsically be Lord of Lords if he is not God?
Doug
Prov 8:22 poetically reveals when the Word /wisdom was awakened /personified /revealed /born and put to the task of creating the universe, not merely created. ...
Because wisdom was also poetically revealed as already existing, hidden somewhere, where God had to find it to use it, indicatiog eternal existence, pointing to Prov 8:22 where God used it. ...
This reveals Christ /the Word as eternally existent.
Proverbs 8:22 (KJV) The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Job 28:20 (KJV) Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:24 (KJV) For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:27 (KJV) Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
LORD was put in the bible in OT by men who removed Gods name against Gods will. YHVH(Jehovah) belongs in every spot of OT where-GOD or LORD was replaced by satan's will to mislead. All have the opportunity to show their creator if they support his will on that matter of his name by the translation they choose to use. Some truth can be found but not all truth in the bibles that mislead.If Jesus is Lord of Lords, is he Lord of the Lord too?
Isa 45:11“This is what the Lord says—
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
12It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
Which Lord is Isaiah speaking of here? Can Jesus be Lord of Lords and the one through whom creation finds its being? “He is either Lord of all or not at all”, as the old Josh McDowell saying goes. There is no other Lord besides him, so there is no being higher than him! Therefore, he is God, for there is none higher than him!
As Isaiah further says in Isa 45: 18For this is what the Lord says—
he who created the heavens,
he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth,
he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty,
but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:
“I am the Lord,
and there is no other.
If Jesus is “King of Kings and Lord of Lords”- why else would he have that tattooed on his thigh after all if he wasn’t- and Yahweh says “I am the Lord and there is no other”, which one is lying?
Is not God Almighty the highest Lord of all? How can Jesus intrinsically be Lord of Lords if he is not God?
Doug
civic
Active Member
Same word in Hebrew and we know Christ is identified as YHWH
God would already possess wisdom if he could create wisdom. Wisdom personified=Jesus= Gods master worker. He speaks at prov 8:22 and on. He gives 100% credit to another( HE( Prov 8:27-28) for doing the creating. Ones mislead believe-Gen 1:26= Let us make man in our image, that us ( created) but that is not bible fact. At verse 27= 100% clear-HE( not we or us) created-same at Prov 8:27-28( HE created)
HE( Jehovah) created his master worker first= The firstborn of all creation( Col 1:15-16)= the only begotten son. All OTHER things created-THROUGH( John 1:3-Col 1:15-16) his master worker= Jesus.
Jehovah = creator, architect---Jesus= Master worker, builder)
TibiasDad
Active Member
The names are irrelevant because the person they identify is the same individual. The names are all descriptions of the character of God. They are held in deep reverence and are not to be used flippantly. That is the only reason that the Tetragrammaton has been, at times, replaced by Adoni and Kurios. There is no historical or textual evidence of any mss containing 7000 uses of Yahweh. No matter what name is used, to reiterate my earlier point, it is descriptive of the same individual, namely, God Almighty.
Doug
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Ss God the Son, he is the Lord..... period.
Jehovah is a single being God, Thus its very relevant.
civic
Active Member
And Jesus has the same identity , banes, titles and descriptions as YHWH. Like Father like Son
TibiasDad
Active Member
God is a singular entity, not a singular person. God is a type of being, and one of its characteristics is being personal/relational in nature. Intelligence, creativity, and rationality are other aspects of the nature of being God, just as they are of being human.
Human is a type of being, canine is a type of being, feline is a type of being. But the separation between being human and being God is the scope of these characteristics. God is eternal and infinite in His being, but all others are created and finite in nature of being.
God, being eternal, has always been personal and relational and can only function as such with another of his same type in an eternity past scenario. Whoever is eternal in nature of being is necessarily God in nature of being. Singular type of nature, and whoever possesses this nature is an individual expression of that type of nature of being.
Doug
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