Who is the creator

[civic]

In Greek, which again is the only meaning that matters, dia in John 1:3 is “through” in the sense of the Word is “the means by which” all things were made, which is re-emphasized by “and without him nothing that has been made was made.

It doesn’t mean another did it through him, it means the Word is the means of creation being created.

Learn Greek, my friend! It is the language that counts in the NT!


Doug

Its mind boggling how anyone could ever think an it was responsible for creation and not God. They turn a blind eye to the text in favor of their doctrinal position. Scripture is read with a closed mind which means they are not learning or teachable.

I alway tell the men in our discipleship groups to read your bible as if its the very first time you are reading the text. That when you can get so many aha moments when God can open your eyes, heart, mind, spirit to His living word. It comes alive in ways you never thought of before.

Keep on soldiering on brother !!!

 

[Keiw1]

The fact that it has been debated is irrelevant; you can’t argue from the Greek because you’ve never taken Greek, and cannot understand Greek syntax.

I am no Greek scholar, but I’ve taken Greek as a part of my training, and have studied it for over 40 years since I’ve studied it formally.

You cannot substantiate what you argue from the very language of scripture: why do you believe in the which cannot be demonstrated by scripture?

My argument is with you in present time not 1800 years ago; it is about your arguments not agreeing with the language of scripture.

May the Lord give you wisdom and understanding in 2026 and a Happy New Year!


Doug

All can look John 1:1 up in Greek by googling it. They find at both John 1:1 and 2Corinthians 4:4--At both spots the true God is called a different Greek word than both others( Word and satan) both called a different word in Greek-Why? God and god is the only reason on the planet. The Word is called god at John 1:1.

 

[Walt]

Who did Justin Martyr say was the Creator and what did he say about Jesus?

Justin Martyr identified God the Father as the ultimate Creator, but also called Jesus, the Logos, the "first-begotten Word of God" who is "also God" and the agent through whom the Father created and arranged all things, though distinct from the Father and subordinate. Jesus, as the Logos, pre-existed creation, was worshipped, and is considered divine, but is "another God and Lord besides" the unbegotten Father, the primary God.
=============

The indefinite article "a" and "an" it's not in the Koine Greek, language, it must be added by the English translator to his Understanding, for example when the Bible says to Moses: I have made you a God to Pharaoh

AI Overview

You are correct: Koine Greek doesn't have indefinite articles ("a," "an") like English, so translators must infer them from context, which leads to different interpretations, such as in Exodus 7:1 where "I have made you a god to Pharaoh" (meaning a divine representative) requires adding "a" because the Greek simply states "god" (elohim/theos) without an article, a common feature of predicate nominatives where the article isnsnt always required for definite meaning in Greek but English needs one, as seen in the famous John 1:1 debate ("the Word was God" vs. "a god").

 

[Walt]

Did Justin Martyr refer to Jesus as the angel that spoke to Moses, "the Angel of the Lord"?

 

[Walt]

How many Early Church Fathers considered Jesus as the "Angel of the Lord"? Did they quote Proverbs 8:22 and Isaiah 9:6, from the Greek LXX Septuagint?

 

[TibiasDad]

All can look John 1:1 up in Greek by googling it. They find at both John 1:1 and 2Corinthians 4:4--At both spots the true God is called a different Greek word than both others( Word and satan) both called a different word in Greek-Why? God and god is the only reason on the planet. The Word is called god at John 1:1.

But you can’t understand the syntax of the language and how words are used. What are these specific different words? I see the same word being used of both, Theos; the only difference is the part of speech that they play in the sentence.

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

But you can’t understand the syntax of the language and how words are used. What are these specific different words? I see the same word being used of both, Theos; the only difference is the part of speech that they play in the sentence.

Doug

The one who sent Jesus= Father = THE ONLY TRUE GOD John 17:3--In every translation on Earth.
100% for sure your translation is misleading you.

 

[TibiasDad]

The one who sent Jesus= Father = THE ONLY TRUE GOD John 17:3--In every translation on Earth.
100% for sure your translation is misleading you.

Once again, you run from the question that responds to your assertions. Answer the question: What are these specific different two different words? Satan is called “the god” (ho Theos) “of this world” and Jesus is referred to as “the image of God” (tou Theou…the genitive version of the indicative ‘ho Theos’.) It is the same exact word written in two different cases (indicative and genitive) referring to two different persons (Satan and Jesus).

The inference Paul is drawing is that one is the god of this world while the other is the God of all! One is not God and the other one is! One is destined to fall while the other one is destined to triumph and be declared “the King of Kings and Lord of Lords”: which cannot only be God Almighty !

Doug

 

[101G]

As I have said in another thread regarding this verse, Wisdom cannot be created , for that implies a time wherein it didn’t exist. But God has always existed, and he was never lacking in wisdom. Thus, “possessed” is the only logical meaning for qanah.



“The Word was with God…” and the Word created all that has been created! It does not say the Word created all other things; it says “all things” and continues to state that nothing that has been made was made without him.

Moreover, when John says “In the beginning was the Word”, he is saying that at the point prior to creation that the Word “was”, past tense, already existing. Only one who is eternally existent can be existent before the creation of “all things” that have been created.




“Through” means ‘by means of’. Which, again, means that the means through whom creation is created is already existent to be able to create.


Doug

God is the Lord Jesus who is wisdom...... The Lord Jesus is A. Wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."

and the Lord Jesus is the POWER, that LIGHT in proverbs 8:22-31. for the Light in Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." is that POWER of Genesis 1:3 WISDOM. for the definition of Light here is
H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.
Root(s): H215

note the second definition ..... happiness and another word for happiness is Delight and Rejoice. now the Prover scripture. Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

101G.

 

[TibiasDad]

God is the Lord Jesus who is wisdom

And the Lord Jesus who is wisdom is God, and God, who is wisdom is the Lord Jesus.

Doug

 

[civic]

And the Lord Jesus who is wisdom is God, and God, who is wisdom is the Lord Jesus.

Doug

And all of Gods children shouted a great big

AMEN !

 

[Keiw1]

Once again, you run from the question that responds to your assertions. Answer the question: What are these specific different two different words? Satan is called “the god” (ho Theos) “of this world” and Jesus is referred to as “the image of God” (tou Theou…the genitive version of the indicative ‘ho Theos’.) It is the same exact word written in two different cases (indicative and genitive) referring to two different persons (Satan and Jesus).

The inference Paul is drawing is that one is the god of this world while the other is the God of all! One is not God and the other one is! One is destined to fall while the other one is destined to triumph and be declared “the King of Kings and Lord of Lords”: which cannot only be God Almighty !

Doug

The true God is called Ho Theos = The God, The Word is called Theos as is satan at 2 Cor 4:4 and John 1:1= god, while the true God is called Ho Theos( The God). The only 2 spots in the NT it occurs.
The true God= the Father( John 17:3, 1Cor 8:6, John 4:22-24)-Is Jesus' God, After the 1000 year reign( Rev 20:6)-Jesus must hand the kingdom back to his God and Father( 1Cor 15:24-28) and subject himself)--- = forever. Remember in the Lords prayer--Let your( Father) kingdom come.

 

[TibiasDad]

he true God is called Ho Theos = The God, The Word is called Theos as is satan at 2 Cor 4:4 and John 1:1= god, while the true God is called Ho Theos( The God). The only 2 spots in the NT it occurs.

2Cor 4:4 ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ Θεοῦ.
‘In whom the god (ὁ θεὸς) of this age” is the first instance of ho Theos, and it is applied to Satan. This is the Nominative Case, indicating the subject of the sentence.

τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ Θεοῦ (of the God), is the second usage which is the Genitive Case, which indicates God possessing something, namely a particular image or set of particular characteristics. Paul states that Christ literally “is the image of the God”! In other words, whatever the characteristics of God the Father are, they are duplicated and demonstrated by and in Christ the Son.

So ὁ θεὸς is not technically used exclusively of God, and it is said that the image of the God (εἰκὼν τοῦ Θεοῦ), is portrayed perfectly by and in the person of Christ. τοῦ Θεοῦ and ὁ θεὸς are the same God! Only the grammatical position in the sentence is different! The first is Genitive and the second is Nominative.

And these are not the only two places that ὁ θεὸς occurs:

Matt 22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

John 20:28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” (literally “the Lord of me and the God of me”. ὁ θεὸς appears in both passages. In fact, you will find ὁ θεὸς, roughly 261 times in the NT.


Doug

 

[101G]

And the Lord Jesus who is wisdom is God, and God, who is wisdom is the Lord Jesus.

Doug

correct, who is only one person diversified in Spirit.....

101G.

 

[101G]

Matt 22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."

101G.

 

[TibiasDad]

Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living."

101G.

The resurrection did not make him Lord, it proved that he was Lord! It demonstrates his Lordship over both life and death.

Doug

 

[101G]

The resurrection did not make him Lord, it proved that he was Lord! It demonstrates his Lordship over both life and death.

Doug

The Lord Jesus has ... "NOT BEEN Lord" .... Always, until he came in flesh, understand?...... he always been "LORD", got it?.

TibiasDad said:
Matt 22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

101G

 

[TibiasDad]

The Lord Jesus has ... "NOT BEEN Lord" .... Always, until he came in flesh, understand?...... he always been "LORD", got it?.

TibiasDad said:
Matt 22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

101G

He has always been LORD, got it?

The Lord Jesus has ... "NOT BEEN Lord" ....

Yes he has; can he be creator and not be LORD? Can he have existed before the creation of all things and not be LORD?

Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

Trinitarians lie about meanings to fit their false teachings. They have mislead billions.

There are multipl upon multiple online sources from text studies to Strongs (Guess you dont trust him cause he 9is a Trin?) to I bet all the tea in China that there are also Uni and JW sources of translations that you can do a simple search as to what does yada, yada.... (sorry @Jaime it just comes natural to me) ... mean and you can draw ytyour own conclusions.

While searching look at the Ais who invest no skin in these conversations...

ChatGPT

Grok

Gemini

Search Assist

to start with

And be sure to not mis the OT searches for words as they have not mislead anyone

 

[101G]

Yes he has; can he be creator and not be LORD? Can he have existed before the creation of all things and not be LORD?

not in flesh bone and blood.... T you should have known this. understand in flesh and blood did he CREATE the universe? no, but in flesh and blood he did die for our sins.

flesh and blood did not create anything........ remember, Matthews 19:4. .... God is a "HE" and not a them.

101G.