Then you cannot hold to a pretrib rapture
And in case you did not know dispensational premillenialism holds to a pre trib rapture
BTW you are still stuck trying to justify a millenium at Christ's return according to 1Cor 15:22ff.
Which is it? 616 or 666?
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
And in case you did not know dispensational premillenialism holds to a pre trib rapture
BTW you are still stuck trying to justify a millenium at Christ's return according to 1Cor 15:22ff.
SteveB
Active Member
So, I'm only allowed to think what you say?
Gee, you noticed that did you!
Good. I was starting to think you lack the ability to see.
No need to justify YHVH.
He was justified from before the beginning.
You failed to address the problem your answer involved you inSo, I'm only allowed to think what you say?
Gee, you noticed that did you!
Good. I was starting to think you lack the ability to see.
No need to justify YHVH.
He was justified from before the beginning.
viz
Then you cannot logically hold to a pretrib rapture for the rapture is placed at the second coming of Christ
And in case you did not know dispensational premillenialism holds to a pre trib rapture
BTW you are still stuck trying to justify a millenium at Christ's return according to 1Cor 15:22ff.
SteveB
Active Member
You've repeatedly failed to answer questions I've asked, so you're going to have to live with this.
YOU believe that the harpadzo is at the second coming.
We who read the Bible for the purpose of understanding see it in an earlier period of time.
It seems like you're confused about what the tribulation period is. Based on the seriously limited points you've made, you appear to think that it's a walk through a park of trouble, directed at the followers of Jesus, but has absolutely nothing to do with either Israel or the people of the world.
Yeah, you really should stop assuming.
You're still assuming.
It doesn't look good on you.
Laughable as you dodge scriptural proof and your arguments are go read this book or that website
Sorry here is the evidence you have been ignoring
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
try answering it for a change and explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
SteveB
Active Member
So, you're actually telling me that you lack the will to learn, and expect me to believe you?
I did answer.
You pissed on it, and continue to do so.
No you did not
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
try answering it for a change and explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
SteveB
Active Member
I still see no answer to this
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
try answering it for a change and explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
PS if you want to prove me wrong post a link where you specifically addressed those scriptures
SteveB
Active Member
Then you should stop posting, and go back through to March or February and begin methodically reading y posts
I don't see any value in proving you wrong. That's just an ego issue.
Actually it could be edifying to others and the one in error
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
PS if you want to prove me wrong post a link where you specifically addressed those scriptures
SteveB
Active Member
This topic ceased being edifying several months ago.
If that was true, you'd have recognized your error.
You don't actually possess good reading comprehension do you.
Funny but you failed to rebut what i stated
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
your failure to do so testifies against you
SteveB
Active Member
Glad you find it amusing.
My failure to believe you testifies against me?
I'm reminded that you are neither God, nor as erudite as you want me to believe.
This should have settled the question. Both 666 and 616 are accurate depending which language the name is being expressed in. We no longer have a conventional association of numbers with names. There would not logically be a key for the readers to recognize the name visually as 616 or 666 anymore.
Scripture
Your failure to engage with scripture testifies against you
1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 (KJV 1900) — 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
it happens at the resurrection on the last day
John 6:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV 1900) — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
when he comes
1 Corinthians 15:22–57 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. .................................... 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
explain how that may be interpreted as a secret unseen coming at some day before the last day
Yes it should be
It would be too great of a coincidence for Nero to be matching the two numbers on the face of it and not be the person revealed. Nero also lived up to the evil of this identity. It is not like he was an ice cream vendor just earning a living who happened to have the name matching these numbers in two languages.
SteveB
Active Member
I don't recall this one being brought up.
Perhaps it's not entirely pertinent, but once the name is brought in, it strikes me that it is pertinent.
Rev 17:9-11 WEB 9 Here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 They are seven kings. Five have fallen, the one is, and the other has not yet come. When he comes, he must continue a little while. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goes to destruction.
the 8th king is of the 7. As Nero had already died (6/9/68) by the time Revelation was written, the one who was still alive at the time was Domitian (9/18/96).
A vile and equally brutal Roman emperor to Nero.
I vaguely recall a list of names given of ancient rulers/tyrants who were exceptionally brutal and violent towards the Jewsh people in history and it was from their practices/ideologies the 8th would arise.
The Seven Kings of Revelation 17
The description of the woman and the beast upon which she sits in Revelation 17:7–14 is one of the most difficult passages in the book of Revelation. As John ma
www.ligonier.org
Not as a reincarnation, but in the "spirit and power" of such.
Much like John the Baptist practiced in the spirit and power of Elijah....
Kenneth Gentry and others explain the reasoning behind an early dating of Revelation to the time before the encircling of Jerusalem. I accepted this early dating a long time ago but more recently have listened to a portion of the Bruce Gore Youtube channel with his Revelation series. He explains the details convincingly. My main interest has then been with understanding Revelation 20.I don't recall this one being brought up.
Perhaps it's not entirely pertinent, but once the name is brought in, it strikes me that it is pertinent.
Rev 17:9-11 WEB 9 Here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 They are seven kings. Five have fallen, the one is, and the other has not yet come. When he comes, he must continue a little while. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goes to destruction.
the 8th king is of the 7. As Nero had already died (6/9/68) by the time Revelation was written, the one who was still alive at the time was Domitian (9/18/96).
A vile and equally brutal Roman emperor to Nero.
I vaguely recall a list of names given of ancient rulers/tyrants who were exceptionally brutal and violent towards the Jewsh people in history and it was from their practices/ideologies the 8th would arise.
The Seven Kings of Revelation 17
The description of the woman and the beast upon which she sits in Revelation 17:7–14 is one of the most difficult passages in the book of Revelation. As John ma
Not as a reincarnation, but in the "spirit and power" of such.
Much like John the Baptist practiced in the spirit and power of Elijah....
Similar threads
