Frank Russell
Well-known member
Repeating the same scripture, and not addressing what was referred to is a common tactic, not convincing at all.
Where in the Bible does God decree everything ?
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e v e
Well-known member
the command about the tree was given to male.
i am female... so it makes no sense as a question ... adam was responsible for eve and left her alone.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
In the parable of the wheat and tares, God did not plant the bad seed in the field. God is not a schizophrenic, the enemy planted the bad seeds.
However, calvinism seems to think god planted the bad seeds, thus seems to be worshiping the devil.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
That trinitarian one. As opposed to the god that sucks out all the goodness from the air that is common in Baptist and Calvinist assemblies.
atpollard
Well-known member
Does God PLAN for evil to happen?
Was Jesus‘ crucifixion planned by God, or just an accident?
God did not DO something evil.
God did not CAUSE sin.
God did PLAN for it and God MEANT for it it happen.
atpollard
Well-known member
So DUALISM?
God created GOOD people and Satan created EVIL people and the two “CREATORS” battle it out?
(I am just attempting to understand your point.)
Frank Russell
Well-known member
No labels required.
The scripture says one thing, calvinism says something else painting itself as the bad guy.
e v e
Well-known member
dualism is the evil realm, leviathan and behemoth
e v e
Well-known member
no fall was needed.
that is esau's invention.
God did not plan evil or mean it to be
or force adam to betray Him
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
So you don't believe what Scripture says? It says it pretty plainly. It hard to twist "You meant it for evil, but God MEANT IT for good" (although obviously there some here who try).
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Left her alone? Why don't you go ahead and just say that you would have done differently. He ate of the tree for her.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Amazing.....So God couldn't have installed Joseph in Egypt without Satan?
That is what you're preaching. That God needed Satan to accomplish His purpose. God needs nothing from anyone.
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
You believe you are praising God when you are praising Satan.
e v e
Well-known member
zI meant he left her alone before she ate. satan could approach her.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Okay. I still see don't see any issue with Adam action relative to Eve.
atpollard
Well-known member
In other words, EVEN YOU cannot explain what you mean ... except "Calvinism bad!"
OK, I feel better at not understanding your point.
atpollard
Well-known member
Frankly, you speak in circles.
I tend towards the literal, so claiming that Esau, the brother of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham is somehow responsible for Adam (who was LONG DEAD) choosing to sin before any human being had been BORN [Adam and Eve being directly created by God] is an utterly nonsensical statement.
Let us narrow it down to one simple question:
Was Jesus‘ crucifixion planned by God, or just an accident?
Please just say what you mean and mean what you say.
e v e
Well-known member
i didn't criticize or ever say that..In other words, EVEN YOU cannot explain what you mean ... except "Calvinism bad!"
OK, I feel better at not understanding your point.
because i think both sides are not exactly right..
but no one has ever talked to me about what is off in Calvinism..
or what is okay... never had that conversation with someone
i rather always want to focus instead on sweet souls and loving others..
i have nothing against you.
if something i say is not clear you can ask..
i have chronic fatigue and being in my 60s
oh I am so sorry...i just saw you were talking to someone else..
even more proof I am old... sigh.
e v e
Well-known member
yes but esau is also a type. Just as Egypt is a type and resurrection a type. Christ literally resurrected to His Father..
and at the Change we will meet Christ on the clouds and be resurrected to our Original body made by Him
which is imperishable... unlike this Flesh.
So the term, resurrection as type, refers to going Home, and leaving this world, literally,
which for now we imagine as reality but that very soon will literally happen...
True there is a literal egypt in this world and in the other world..
...much of OT is about the other reality and events there...both past and future... though most read them
as dusty history that already passed as if it all happened on this earth...which most did not.
Consider that all His souls are jacob, as a type... and the elect are out of Jacob...
Just as, with another type as 'land', we are all His Ishral, literally,
and its not an earthly country ruled by men on this earth
but the promised land of paradise, where we will go soon, our Home lost
because of adam.
obviously the evil realm did not kill Him by accident...but hate Him and did that.
And, as a type who still exists today, in this world,
they do everything possible to keep everyone they can even today from ever understanding what He said.
I only know His Character and Love and Signature...
and He would never plan to murder his son...
that is the signature of the evil realm to do that...
their MO. The evil realm did that though
Christ came on his own choice here,
so much is his love... and knowing they would kill Him...
but was the fall needed? No. Adam did that...
and because God is vulnerable to us, and loves us, all Jacob,
He came here of his own Choice to get us out of here.
whereas Esau He hated!
My understanding is that Christ our deity volunteered on His own to come here
and make possible for us to be rescued out of this earth and this body...
to be restored to Him.
that is based on much study... and yes including hieroglyphs and other texts..
since those texts are Enemies of God and bragged about all they did in depth...
gleefully plotting and glad that eden fell... so yes, important to study
though doing so was banned by the vatican early on... before the reformation even...
however, doing this always by confirming the link in scripture, scripture having the final word, because much
in all ancient texts is corrupted, by scribes and pharisees, inc. the modern bibles. It is too much to put on
a social forum like this... so I will leave this here then as a summary.
only what matters now with end times upon us is to come to Him
and die to the needs and wants of the flesh..
and pray very much for all of us, and yes He knows and always has exactly who are all of His in the book of life....
all of us being the saints who have died in the past for Him,
after the cross, and the OT saints, and all of us today.
I don't belong to any denomination...
as you can see I've rejected free will --- in the sense its been usually 'defined'...
but also rejected at least 1 point of tulip... though no one has even asked or discussed this point!
my views are for specific reasons no one ever replied to.
so i don't have a picked side in any either/or debate..and do not plan to..
as I stay in Him and don't debate...and neither did Christ!
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e v e
Well-known member
I am replying in sections as there are different points.
So who Created Adam and eve if not God?
and re: esau, did not satanic entities, a different seed, exist before and at the time of the fall?
that was esau...
Of course God created man directly, with nothing in between...
in their own glorious image... male and female, as He said.
As for Esau being responsible, before the literal esau of the OT, the same entities of the evil realm were there in eden...
and are sons of ammon and esau. Jacob was in fact Getting Back the birthright from them as a foreshadowing of our rapture...
and it is esau who made Eden to fall... those esau type entities or demons, one of which tempted eve.
esau was but one esau.
it was an esau type who made eden to fall
and stole from us our birthright.
Jacob, as us, stole back that birthright,
as foreshadowing of end times, when we will meet Christ on the clouds...
given the context, eve's seed is in emnity to them, esau and sons of ammon, as Genesis says, literally.
and it is they who try to and did corrupt every context so that
no one one could ever return home. thus, all the fighting on forums...
all intentional. However, they lose and God will get back all of us
and bring us Home.
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e v e
Well-known member
i am not calvinist or arminian so I dont know if calvinism
considers types in its exegesis..
so, to clarify, esau is a type..
we can look at politicians and world leaders today
.. in any faction!... and see that type everywhere....
being very successful and powerful and materialistic...
yet having no connection to God,
rather, only interested in own Self and advancement
and following their satanic masters
and hurting us.
considers types in its exegesis..
so, to clarify, esau is a type..
we can look at politicians and world leaders today
.. in any faction!... and see that type everywhere....
being very successful and powerful and materialistic...
yet having no connection to God,
rather, only interested in own Self and advancement
and following their satanic masters
and hurting us.
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