What's Wrong with Calvinism?

FreeInChrist said:
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Yes, yes, yes ... WE DO... AND we do have the power of the Spirit.

I am afraid however you epitomize

Mark 4:12 so that ‘Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”

Isaiah 6: 9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 “Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed.”

So I gave you a posting about John Knox....and YOU cannot understand it.

One of the leaders in the Reformation. And John Knox was a friend and follower of John Calvin, studying under him in Geneva and adopting many of his theological ideas. Knox referred to Calvin's school as "the most perfect school of Christ" during his time there.

You are a predestined believer..... and you cannot understand what John Knox was saying....

The Founder of the Church of Scotland and the founder of presbyterianism.

Free Will in Knox's Theology​

While Knox affirmed the sovereignty of God in predestination, he also acknowledged the existence of human will. He argued that although God's eternal counsel decrees the fate of individuals, humans still possess a free will that operates within God's sovereign plan. This means that while God predestines, individuals are still responsible for their choices.

Knox believed that true freedom is found in aligning one's will with God's. He suggested that humans are free to choose good or evil, but their ability to choose good is ultimately enabled by God's grace. Thus, Knox's view of free will does not contradict his belief in predestination; rather, it complements it by highlighting the necessity of divine grace in human decision-making.
John Knox, held views that emphasized the sovereignty of God while also acknowledging human responsibility. He believed that while God is all-powerful, humans possess the ability to choose between good and evil.

  • Human Responsibility: Knox argued that individuals have the freedom to choose their actions. He maintained that God created humans with the capacity to make moral choices, which is essential for genuine faith and repentance.
  • Divine Sovereignty: While affirming free will, Knox also emphasized that God's will ultimately governs all things. He believed that God's providence does not negate human choice but rather works through it.
  • Predestination: Knox's views on predestination suggest that while God has a plan for salvation, individuals still have the opportunity to respond to God's call. He argued that God's mercy is available to all who genuinely seek it.
Knox's theology presents a balance between divine sovereignty and human free will, asserting that while God is in control, humans are still accountable for their choices. This perspective was significant in shaping Reformed thought during the Reformation.

He also was instrumental in creating the new ecclesiastical order and the Scots Confession of Faith, which defined its beliefs and practices.
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And without the Spirit you cannot understand the things of God correct?
 
TomL said:
That is an assumption

Faith comes from the word

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’

Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is inspired by the Spirit but that does not mean you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled before you can believe.
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1 Corinthians 2. No assuming necessary. Its right there in black and white.
 
TomL said:
Thomas called Jesus Lord previous to be regenerated/made alive

John 20:28–29 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

And faith can come from the word

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’

Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Finally you still have not answered the fact unbelievers are not made alive so they can believe.
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How do you know? Does it say He was not regenerated?

More assuming. Who said it was a fact? You?
 
TomL said:
Again my position is one can do so without being regenerated/made alive or indwelled, contrary to your position

Scripture says you can


Romans 10:8–9 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Still, however, you have not dealt with the fact that an unbeliever cannot be made alive.

Those who do not believe will not see life however which means they are not made alive nor will they receive the Spirit

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

An unbeliever is judged not regenerated

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

All unbelievers are condemned not some made alive

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

death not regeneration is for all unbelievers

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

One must first have the Son of God, or he will not see life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.

nor will they receive the Spirit

Will you ever address this fact, which totally refutes Calvinist theology.
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And my position is they cannot. No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit.
 
TomL said:
Once again the verse does not state you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled to confess Christ as lord

John 20:28 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

The indwelling of the Spirit had yet to happen.
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Both verses were penned after Pentecost.
 
Presby02 said:
And my position is they cannot. No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit.
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Again my position is one can do so without being regenerated/made alive or indwelled, contrary to your position

Scripture says you can


Romans 10:8–9 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Thomas did

John 20:28 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”


Still, however, you have not dealt with the fact that an unbeliever cannot be made alive.

Those who do not believe will not see life however which means they are not made alive nor will they receive the Spirit

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

An unbeliever is judged not regenerated

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

All unbelievers are condemned not some made alive

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

death not regeneration is for all unbelievers

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

One must first have the Son of God, or he will not see life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.

nor will they receive the Spirit

Will you ever address this fact, which totally refutes Calvinist theology.

The way it is going probably never.
 
TomL said:
Not in the sense you mean it

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
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Yet 1 Corinthians 2 is quite clear. If they understood them it was by the Spirit. Only the Spirit understands the things of God and those He chooses to reveal them to.
 
Presby02 said:
1 Corinthians 2. No assuming necessary. Its right there in black and white.
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You just ignored multiple verses

That is an assumption

Faith comes from the word

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’

Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is inspired by the Spirit but that does not mean you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled before you can believe.
 
Presby02 said:
Nope. There is no word "can" in the text. You simply insert it.
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Sorry but not knowing scripture does not help you

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The bolded phrase notes you can

Paul's words are seen here


Deuteronomy 30:11–14 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.

When that is true, one may do it.
 
Presby02 said:
1 Corinthians 2. No assuming necessary. Its right there in black and white.
Click to expand...
You just ignored a multiplicity of verses

Faith comes from the word

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’

Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Scripture is inspired by the Spirit but that does not mean you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled before you can believe.

BTW the still carnal Corinthians believed the Gospel
 
Presby02 said:
Sorry. That does not prove he was not regenerated.
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Sorry one without the indwelling spirit is not regenerated


Ezek 36:26–27And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them

Further regeneration makes one alive which leads us to the verses you keep ignoring

Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.


So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

Hello

How long will you keep ignoring these verses?
 

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