All I have is bald denials and dodging.
Did you call Christ Lord by the Spirit?
Did your fairh come from the flesh which no good thing comes from?
What's Wrong with Calvinism?
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Did you call Christ Lord by the Spirit?
Did your fairh come from the flesh which no good thing comes from?
The word says they can
Romans 10:8–9 (NASB95) — 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Your verse does not say you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled to confess Jesus is Lord
That is your doctrine, but not what the verse states.
It does not say they can. Point out the phrase you can in the text. You need new glasses.
Once again the verse does not state you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled to confess Christ as lord
John 20:28 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
The indwelling of the Spirit had yet to happen.
Again, the verse does not propagate your doctrine of being regenerated/made alive/indwelled before being able to confess Christ as Lord.
I did not say it did. New glasses ASAP.
Here is what it does say. No man calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit. Nothing good comes from the flesh..
I did not say it did. What it does say is when I called Christ Lord it was by the Spirit and it was not in the flesh.
Again my position is one can do so without being regenerated/made alive or indwelled, contrary to your position
Scripture says you can
Romans 10:8–9 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Still, however, you have not dealt with the fact that an unbeliever cannot be made alive.
Those who do not believe will not see life however which means they are not made alive nor will they receive the Spirit
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
An unbeliever is judged not regenerated
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
All unbelievers are condemned not some made alive
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
death not regeneration is for all unbelievers
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
One must first have the Son of God, or he will not see life.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.
nor will they receive the Spirit
Will you ever address this fact, which totally refutes Calvinist theology.
Thomas called Jesus Lord previous to be regenerated/made alive
John 20:28–29 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
And faith can come from the word
Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’
Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Finally you still have not answered the fact unbelievers are not made alive so they can believe.
That is an assumption
Faith comes from the word
Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’
Rom 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Scripture is inspired by the Spirit but that does not mean you must be regenerated/made alive/indwelled before you can believe.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yes, yes, yes ... WE DO... AND we do have the power of the Spirit.
I am afraid however you epitomize
Mark 4:12 so that ‘Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”
Isaiah 6: 9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 “Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed.”
So I gave you a posting about John Knox....and YOU cannot understand it.
One of the leaders in the Reformation. And John Knox was a friend and follower of John Calvin, studying under him in Geneva and adopting many of his theological ideas. Knox referred to Calvin's school as "the most perfect school of Christ" during his time there.
You are a predestined believer..... and you cannot understand what John Knox was saying....
The Founder of the Church of Scotland and the founder of presbyterianism.
Free Will in Knox's Theology
While Knox affirmed the sovereignty of God in predestination, he also acknowledged the existence of human will. He argued that although God's eternal counsel decrees the fate of individuals, humans still possess a free will that operates within God's sovereign plan. This means that while God predestines, individuals are still responsible for their choices.Knox believed that true freedom is found in aligning one's will with God's. He suggested that humans are free to choose good or evil, but their ability to choose good is ultimately enabled by God's grace. Thus, Knox's view of free will does not contradict his belief in predestination; rather, it complements it by highlighting the necessity of divine grace in human decision-making.
John Knox, held views that emphasized the sovereignty of God while also acknowledging human responsibility. He believed that while God is all-powerful, humans possess the ability to choose between good and evil.
- Human Responsibility: Knox argued that individuals have the freedom to choose their actions. He maintained that God created humans with the capacity to make moral choices, which is essential for genuine faith and repentance.
- Divine Sovereignty: While affirming free will, Knox also emphasized that God's will ultimately governs all things. He believed that God's providence does not negate human choice but rather works through it.
- Predestination: Knox's views on predestination suggest that while God has a plan for salvation, individuals still have the opportunity to respond to God's call. He argued that God's mercy is available to all who genuinely seek it.
He also was instrumental in creating the new ecclesiastical order and the Scots Confession of Faith, which defined its beliefs and practices.
The Calvinist position is man must be regenerated before he can believe the gospel
Have you now rejected that?
And again we read man can confess Christ as Lord
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
civic
Active Member
sure it does as the Greek Lexicon just proved it does. In fact it means what I said it does 28 times more often when dia is used than your presumed meaning only used a total of 4 times whereas what I said is 111 times.
Next fallacy
Lexical Summary
dia: through, by, because of, for the sake of
Original Word: διά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: dia
Pronunciation: dee-ah'
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah')
KJV: after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through(-out), to, wherefore, with (-in) In composition it retains the same general importance
NASB: through, because, sake, reason, sakes, account, means
Word Origin: [a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act]
NASB Translation
account (4), after (2), afterward (1), always* (2), because (111), between* (1), briefly* (1), charge* (1), constantly (1), continually* (6), during (1), forever* (1), gives (1), means (3), over (1), presence (1), reason (40), sake (41), sakes (5), since (1), so then* (1), so* (1), therefore* (16), this reason* (1), this* (1), though (1), through (225), through the agency (1), through* (1), view (2), way (3), what (1), why (3), why* (27).
Angelo
Active Member
There is alway a reason for permission to be granted.
Permission is granted for reasons such as respecting authority and policies, ensuring safety and legal compliance, facilitating smooth operations, and acknowledging a request's merit. Granting permission is a way to officially approve an action, whether it's an employee leaving work early, a parent allowing a caregiver to seek medical treatment, or an artist permitting the use of their work. It formalizes an agreement and provides clear communication for the specific activity being approved. AI
He keeps ignoring that fact
III. of the Means or Instrument by which anything is effected; because what is done by means of a person or thing seems to pass as it were through the same [cf. W. 378 (354)].
1. of one who is the author of the action as well as its instrument, or of the efficient cause: διʼ αὐτοῦ (i. e. τοῦ θεοῦ) τὰ πάντα sc. ἐστίν or ἐγένετο, Ro. 11:36; also διʼ οὗ, Heb. 2:10; διʼ οὗ ἐκλήθητε, 1 Co. 1:9; add [Gal. 4:7 L T Tr WH, see below]; Heb. 7:21 (ἡ ἰατρικὴ πᾶσα διὰ τοῦ θεοῦ τούτου, i. e. Aesculapius, κυβερνᾶται, Plat. symp. p. 186 e.; cf. Fritzsche on Rom. vol. i. p. 15, [and for exx. Soph. Lex. s. v. 1]); of him to whom that is due which any one has or has done; hence i. q. by the fault of any one: διʼ οὗ τὸ σκάνδαλον ἔρχεται, Mt. 18:7; διʼ ἑνὸς ἀνθρ. ἡ ἁμαρτία … εἰσῆλθε, Ro. 5:12, cf. 16–19; ἠσθένει διὰ τῆς σαρκός, Ro. 8:3; by the merit, aid, favor of any one: ἐν ζωῇ βασιλεύσουσι διά etc. Ro. 5:17, cf.18 sq.; 1 Co. 15:21; διὰ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, and the like: Ro. 5:1 sq. 11; Acts 10:43; Gal. 4:7 [Rec., but see above]; δοξάζειν τ. θεὸν διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, 1 Pet. 4:11, and εὐχαριστεῖν τῷ θεῷ διὰ Ἰησ. Χρ. Ro. 1:8; 7:25 (where L T Tr WH txt. χάρις τῷ θεῷ); Col. 3:17,—because the possibility both of glorifying God and of giving thanks to him is due to the kindness of Christ; καυχᾶσθαι ἐν τῷ θεῷ διὰ Ἰησ. Χρ. Ro. 5:11; ἀναπαύεσθαι διά τινος, Philem. 7; οἱ πεπιστευκότες διὰ τῆς χάριτος, Acts 18:27; πολλῆς εἰρήνης τυγχάνοντες διὰ σοῦ … διὰ τῆς σῆς προνοίας, Acts 24:2 (3); ὑπερνικᾶν διὰ τοῦ ἀγαπήσαντος ἡμᾶς, Ro. 8:37; περισσεύειν διά τινος, by the increase which comes from one, Phil. 1:26; 2 Co. 1:5; 9:12; διὰ τῆς ὑμῶν δεήσεως, Phil. 1:19; add, Philem. 22; Ro. 1:12; 2 Co. 1:4; Gal. 4:23; 1 Pet. 1:5.
2. of the instrument used to accomplish a thing, or of the instrumental cause in the stricter sense:—with gen. of pers. by the service, the intervention of, any one; with gen. of thing, by means of, with the help of, any thing;
a. in passages where a subject expressly mentioned is said to do or to have done a thing by some person or by some thing: Mk. 16:20 (τοῦ κυρίου τὸν λόγον βεβαιοῦντος διὰ τ. σημείων); Lk. 1:70; Acts 1:16; 2:22 (τέρασι κ. σημείοις, οἷς ἐποίησε διʼ αὐτοῦ ὁ θεός); 8:20; 10:36; 15:23 (γράψαντες διὰ χειρὸς αὐτῶν); 20:28; 21:19; 28:25; Ro. 2:16; 3:31; 7:13; [8:11 Rec. bez elz L ed. min. T WH txt.]; 15:18; 16:1]; 15:18; 16:18; 1 Co. 1:21 [cf. W. 381 (357)]; 2:10; 4:15; 6:14; 14:9, 19 [R G]; 15:57; 2 Co. 1:4; 4:14 R G; 5:18, 20; 9:13 [cf. W. 381 (357)]; 10:9; 12:17; Eph. 1:5; 2:16; Col. 1:20, 22; 2:8; 1 Th. 4:14; 2 Th. 2:14; Tit. 3:5; Heb. 1:2, 3 [R G]; 2:14; 6:12; 7:19; 9:26; 13:2, 12, 15, 21; Rev. 1:1; γῆ ἐξ ὕδατος (material cause) κ. διʼ ὕδατος συνεστῶσα τῷ τοῦ θεοῦ λόγῳ, 2 Pet. 3:5 [W. 419 (390) cf. 217 (204)].
Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 133.
Greek Strong’s Number: 1223
Greek Word: διά
Transliteration: dia
Phonetic Pronunciation: dee-ah’
Root: a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:65,149
Part of Speech: prep
Vine’s Words: Briefly, Cause, Means, Mock, Mocker, Mocking, Purge, Think
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
by 241
through 88
with 16
for 58
for … sake 47
therefore + <G5124> 44
for this cause + <G5124> 14
because 52
miscellaneous translations 86
[Total Count: 646]
a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional):- after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, × though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.
James Strong, “Διά,” Strong’s Talking Greek and Hebrew Dictionary (WORDsearch, 2020).
Add together various words that carry the idea of being responsible or effective, and it is very hard to see how one can deny the effectiveness.
civic
Active Member
yes its called ignoring the facts, the meaning of the word as its most often used in scripture. dogma forces one to dig themselves deep into the sand ignoring the biblical narrative and replace it with their doctrine.
Especially as the Bible shows unbelievers are not regenerated, as the Calvinist theology holds to support their total inability doctrine.
