What's Wrong with Calvinism?

[FreeInChrist]

All humanity means that every single person ever born has the ability to accept Jesus. Also anyone in all the religions of the world can convert to Christianity.

I agree. However... everyone gets stuck on that ALL word. Everyone except brightfame52 that argues it is all the elect. which of course, is wrong.

 

[TomL]

I agree. However... everyone gets stuck on that ALL word. Everyone except brightfame52 that argues it is all the elect. which of course, is wrong.

Um, actually, it is brightfame52 who is stuck on the word, arguing that the greek word PAS refers to the elect alone

which, of course, you say is wrong.

 

[Angelo]

It's Straight up to me. Like in John 12:32, where Jesus indicates that his crucifixion ("being lifted up") will attract all people to Him, symbolizing His role in salvation. It emphasizes the significance of His death and its impact on humanity.

Once Jesus died by crucifixion, victory over death and over the ruler of this world (Satan) would be complete. By being lifted up on the cross, Jesus would draw all people to Himself.

Jesus wasn’t implying that every person without exception would put their faith in Him for salvation. Clearly, many did not. Jesus meant that people of all ethnic groups and from every part of the world would be drawn to Him through His exaltation in death. The “all people” included the Greeks who were seeking Jesus right then and listening to His voice and us today who hear the gospel being shared.

That how it worked for me. I heard the gospel and by faith gave my life to Christ. Best decision I ever made.

 

[brightfame52]

Those who do not believe do not see life

Only the ones Christ didn't die for

 

[brightfame52]

All means all not the elect

Yes all the elect or His people Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[Alive]

Yes all the elect or His people Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

We are all his people, as He came to save the lost sinners.

He is Immanuel God with us. ALL people.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, (not just a few elect) and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.

 

[FreeInChrist]

It's Straight up to me. Like in John 12:32, where Jesus indicates that his crucifixion ("being lifted up") will attract all people to Him, symbolizing His role in salvation. It emphasizes the significance of His death and its impact on humanity.

Once Jesus died by crucifixion, victory over death and over the ruler of this world (Satan) would be complete. By being lifted up on the cross, Jesus would draw all people to Himself.

Jesus wasn’t implying that every person without exception would put their faith in Him for salvation. Clearly, many did not. Jesus meant that people of all ethnic groups and from every part of the world would be drawn to Him through His exaltation in death. The “all people” included the Greeks who were seeking Jesus right then and listening to His voice and us today who hear the gospel being shared.

That how it worked for me. I heard the gospel and by faith gave my life to Christ. Best decision I ever made.

Bless you @Angelo.

That is how it is supposed to work. Nicwe and concise so as to not confuse mankind. We can confuse ourselves easily enough.

 

[brightfame52]

We are all his people,

False

 

[TomL]

Only the ones Christ didn't die for

Sorry that is not what the verses state

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Again

Scripture: Those who do not believe will not see life.

Your Theology: Those who do not believe may see life.

That is a falsehood, denying the word of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry that is not what the verses state

Yes it does

 

[TomL]

Yes it does

Sorry, but you ignore what the verses do say

This is contrary to your theology

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, but you ignore what the verses do say

Yes it does. You been deceived

 

[TomL]

Yes it does. You been deceived

You are ignoring scripture once again

This is contrary to your theology

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

unbelieving is not receptive of life

 

[Aeliana]

False

True not false.

 

[Presby02]

Again the us in the passage are those in Christ

And I told you God chose those in Christ to be holy ahndblameles before him in love

Those God chooses per the New covenant are clearly those who believe on Christ


John 3:16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 5:24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 6:47 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that is given among people by which we must be saved.”
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 3:22–24 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 5:1 Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Gal 2:16 but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

As for men choosing you were given

Choose to serve God

Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”


Choose life

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.

It seems should men choose to come to, love, listen to his voice, God chooses men to have life, and to make an everlasting covenant with

So God chose the "us". Why? To be holy and blameless. 1)They are not chosen because they are in Christ. Text never says that. You simply insert it when needed. 2) Bible never states God chooses those who choose Him. Again, you assume and insert where needed.

 

[TomL]

So God chose the "us". Why? To be holy and blameless. 1)They are not chosen because they are in Christ. Text never says that. You simply insert it when needed. 2) Bible never states God chooses those who choose Him. Again, you assume and insert where needed.

Perhaps you should reread the passage and my comments as well

They are chosen because they are in Christ. They were not chosen to be in Christ but that they may be holy and blameless before God in love.

And again, believers are chosen to be forgiven, declared righteous, and saved—that is, to have life

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

and after reading, adopt a theology that is consistent with the scriptures posted.

 

[Presby02]

Perhaps you should reread the passage and my comments as well

They are chosen because they are in Christ. They were not chosen to be in Christ but that they may be holy and blameless before God in love.

And again, believers are chosen to be forgiven, declared righteous, and saved—that is, to have life

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

and after reading, adopt a theology that is consistent with the scriptures posted.

Perhaps it is you who needs to reread my post. IT DOES NOT SAY THEY WERE CHOSEN BECAUSE THEY WERE IN CHRIST.

 

[Aeliana]

Somebody reread or retead something and just tell us what's really wrong with Calvinism.

 

[Jay]

Somebody reread or retead something and just tell us what's really wrong with Calvinism.

No problem, it's bad to the bone.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Somebody reread or retead something and just tell us what's really wrong with Calvinism.

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. [John Calvin. Institutes of the Christian Religion, ed. John T. McNeill, trans. Ford Lewis Battles, 2 vols. (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1960), 3.21.5.]

If Calvin said it.... can it be wrong? Those preordained to damnation simply have no choice in the matter.