What's Wrong with Calvinism?

[TomL]

I posted scripture which refutes you. Christ is the cause of your rebirth. He does not need your permission.

It's not me; it is scripture you had to address and have not


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

You posted no scripture refuting that and did not even address it.

If God states if you do not believe you cannot see life, how can you give life so men may believe and then gain life?

Not only must you account for those verses, you also must justify the idea that you are given life so that then you can believe so that you may be given life.

You are nowhere close to dealing with the issue.

 

[Presby02]

It's not me; it is scripture you had to address and have not


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

You posted no scripture refuting that and did not even address it.

If God states if you do not believe you cannot see life, how can you give life so men may believe and then gain life?

Not only must you account for those verses, you also must justify the idea that you are given life so that then you can believe so that you may be given life.

You are nowhere close to dealing with the issue.

"Those who do not believe will not see life." Really? How profound. Good thing God gives belief then right?

If belief is life and its granted or given by God the they are given life so the may believe. Spiritually dead people do not believe nor understand them. Spirirual things or the things of God. See 1 Corin. 2

Issue dealt with.

 

[TomL]

The choice is made from the foundation of the world. According to you your not in Christ until believe. So were you in Christ at the foundation of the world?

It is Christ who makes you alive or born again. Dead things do mot choose life. You did not choose to be born. Common sense.

First you totally ignored a critical point

Again the us are those in Christ. Those in Christ are considered holy and blameless

Those not in Christ, those who do not believe, do not see life

Your doctrine of unbelievers being given life is clearly false

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.

Second you ask

"The choice is made from the foundation of the world. According to you your not in Christ until believe. So were you in Christ at the foundation of the world?"


Clearly unbelievers are not in Christ until they believe and are born again

2 Cor 5:17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

Neither one of us would believe men are first born as new creations

Next you speak of dead with an assumption of complete inability while in fact you cannot deny there are a great many things men may believe and accept. Men may believe in other multiple religions.

However

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,

Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And faith is stated to come from the word of God

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Presby02]

First you totally ignored a critical point

Again the us are those in Christ. Those in Christ are considered holy and blameless

Those not in Christ, those who do not believe, do not see life

Your doctrine of unbelievers being given life is clearly false

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.

Second you ask

"The choice is made from the foundation of the world. According to you your not in Christ until believe. So were you in Christ at the foundation of the world?"


Clearly unbelievers are not in Christ until they believe and are born again

2 Cor 5:17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

Neither one of us would believe men are first born as new creations

Next you speak of dead with an assumption of complete inability while in fact you cannot deny there are a great many things men may believe and accept. Men may believe in other multiple religions.

However

Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,

Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And faith is stated to come from the word of God

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

And you miss a problem with your own view. According to you no one is in Christ until you believe. So there was no "us" for Him to choose.

Second, it says He chose "us". The "us" contextually is those He is writing to. The Ephesians.

 

[TomL]

"Those who do not believe will not see life." Really? How profound. Good thing God gives belief then right?

If belief is life and its granted or given by God the they are given life so the may believe. Spiritually dead people do not believe nor understand them. Spirirual things or the things of God. See 1 Corin. 2

Issue dealt with.

UM, do not ignore the fact your theology has God giving men life that they may then believe while stating if you do not believe, you will not see life.

Hello that clearly is a contradiction of God's word

The issue is not dealt with at all.

And once again you post your assumption regarding the word dead

Spiritual death is separation from God

In the Bible, we are given a parable of one being dead to his father.

The prodigal son, we see, for example, was dead to his father, but he repented and returned and was made alive to his father

The bible has much to say about repenting



Man may repent

Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Man may repent

Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

also

Draw near to God

James 4:8-10
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. / Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter to mourning, and your joy to gloom. / Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.

return to the Lord

Isa 55:6–7Seek Yahweh while he lets himself be found; call him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the man of sin his thoughts. And let him return to Yahweh, that he may take pity on him, and to our God, for he will forgive manifold.

Jeremiah 3:12–14 (LEB) — 12 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, ‘Return, apostate Israel,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not cause my anger to fall on you. For I am loyal,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not be angry forever. 13 Only acknowledge your guilt, that against Yahweh your God you have rebelled, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every leafy tree, and you have not obeyed my voice,’ declares Yahweh.” 14 “Return, apostate children,” declares Yahweh. “For I am your master, and I will take you one from a city and two from a clan, and I will bring you to Zion.



Choose to serve God



Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”


Choose life

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Listen so that your soul may live

Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.

 

[TomL]

And you miss a problem with your own view. According to you no one is in Christ until you believe. So there was no "us" for Him to choose.

Second, it says He chose "us". The "us" contextually is those He is writing to. The Ephesians.

As I asked you once before

Are you really claiming God is unable to know that some will believe in Christ?

Again you dodged the issue

Unbelievers cannot be given life when God states if they do not believe, they will not get life.

First you totally ignored a critical point

Again the us are those in Christ. Those in Christ are considered holy and blameless

Those not in Christ, those who do not believe, do not see life

Your doctrine of unbelievers being given life is clearly false

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.

 

[FreeInChrist]

If this is true, why create those HE knows will not accept HIS gift of faith in light of the verses which suggest HE wants hell to be empty and none to perish.

It is know as free will. That is what God created us with. In his plans before time when he knew that the earth and all life here in .. or should that be here on the face of the earth was to be. His purpose that not necessarily mankind would know while they are able to breath that he would not program anyong good or bad as is said in Calvin's double predestination . YThe concept primarily associated with Calvinism, which asserts that God has predetermined some individuals for salvation and others for damnation.

As to predestination... does/did it exist. YES... assuredly. It was planned for those that would be carrying out God's work on earth
The prophets... the apostles and disciples..... Mary.... Elizabeth.... maybe Joseph.... the thief.... and probably Judas to name a handful.

But God did create mankind to have free will the very same as the angels had free will.

Exactly why?????????????? I do not know but it is because God has a knowledge and an awareness to to know in advance what will
be taking place and he knows who among us will be the ones who will see and hear and grow our interests toward all things God
and He knows the ones who will be so into themselves they never will.... but it is not that he made them that way... it is because of his forknwledge that we simply cannot comprehend.

Now... if I made errors in spelling I am not correcting because I only had 3 1/2 hours sleep last everning andwas wide awake at 10:30 PM and right now I am bone tired and my fingers will not allow me to edit what I have written. Sorry about that

 

[TomL]

And you miss a problem with your own view. According to you no one is in Christ until you believe. So there was no "us" for Him to choose.

Second, it says He chose "us". The "us" contextually is those He is writing to. The Ephesians.

Um, you really think it's a problem God can know there will be people who will believe in his son?

And that when you have God knowing certain people, he will elect before any people exist at all.

Additionally, if God has determined all who believe in Christ he will make holy and righteous and has informed Paul such that

Paul cannot say to those who are now believing in Ephesus that they were chosen to be holy and blameless?

BTW, Paul, a non-Ephesian would be among us.

You need a better argument, and you need to deal with the verses that state the unbeliever will not see life.

 

[Presby02]

Um, you really think it's a problem God can know there will be people who will believe in his son?

And that when you have God knowing certain people, he will elect before any people exist at all.

Additionally, if God has determined all who believe in Christ he will make holy and righteous and has informed Paul such that

Paul cannot say to those who are now believing in Ephesus that they were chosen to be holy and blameless?

BTW, Paul, a non-Ephesian would be among us.

You need a better argument, and you need to deal with the verses that state the unbeliever will not see life.

So He simply knows some will believe but no idea who right?

He onew the "us" He chose from the foundation of the world.

I believe the non believer will not see life. Hence God grants or gives the belief so they live and will be holy and blameless. Keep trying

 

[TomL]

So He simply knows some will believe but no idea who right?

I did not say such. It is, however, irrelevant whether it is by foreknowledge or by collectivism.

Until one believes one is not holy and blameless

He onew the "us" He chose from the foundation of the world.

I believe the non believer will not see life. Hence God grants or gives the belief so they live and will be holy and blameless. Keep trying

You just ignored the point that your theology holds the dead cannot believe and that

They first need to be made alive. This while God states unbelievers will not be made alive.

A clear contradiction you have failed to deal with a multiplicity of times.

 

[Presby02]

I did not say such. It is, however, irrelevant whether it is by foreknowledge or by collectivism.

Until one believes one is not holy and blameless



You just ignored the point that your theology holds the dead cannot believe and that

They first need to be made alive. This while God states unbelievers will not be made alive.

A clear contradiction you have failed to deal with a multiplicity of times.

No its relevant. You just don't want to deal with it. I understand why.

The Spiritually dead cannot. Amen They cannot understand tge things of God. 1 Corin. 2

He does make us alive. Ephesians 2;5. While we are DEAD in trespasses and sins.

So much for that contradiction.

NEXT

 

[TomL]

No its relevant. You just don't want to deal with it. I understand why.

The Spiritually dead cannot. Amen They cannot understand tge things of God. 1 Corin. 2

He does make us alive. Ephesians 2;5. While we are DEAD in trespasses and sins.

So much for that contradiction.

NEXT

First

You just ignored the point that your theology holds the dead cannot believe and that

They first need to be made alive. This while God states unbelievers will not be made alive.

Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

A clear contradiction you have failed to deal with a multiplicity of times.

And still avoid

Why?

Second you have not shown why it is critical whether foreknowledge or collectivism is involved. I have held it irrelevant.

Third you have produced no verses which state the spiritually dead cannot believe.

What man may do

Man may repent

Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Draw near to God

James 4:8-10
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. / Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter to mourning, and your joy to gloom. / Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.

return to the Lord

Isa 55:6–7Seek Yahweh while he lets himself be found; call him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the man of sin his thoughts. And let him return to Yahweh, that he may take pity on him, and to our God, for he will forgive manifold.

Jeremiah 3:12–14 (LEB) — 12 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, ‘Return, apostate Israel,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not cause my anger to fall on you. For I am loyal,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not be angry forever. 13 Only acknowledge your guilt, that against Yahweh your God you have rebelled, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every leafy tree, and you have not obeyed my voice,’ declares Yahweh.” 14 “Return, apostate children,” declares Yahweh. “For I am your master, and I will take you one from a city and two from a clan, and I will bring you to Zion.

Choose to serve God

Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”

Choose life

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.

Fourth as for Eph 2:5

Ephesians 2:5 (LEB) — 5 and we being dead in trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),

you are ignoring two points

Point A

The we from the context are believers-those in Christ.

Point b

The making alive (salvation) follows faith as shown from context

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB) — 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[Speculator]

Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

N.T. Wright, a leading New Testament scholar, comments on this passage saying, "This brief discussion of Paul’s gospel thus indicates that, for him, ‘the gospel’, also translatable as ‘the good news’, was the power of the creator God."

It is tempting to say, ‘the gospel carried this divine power,’ or ‘the gospel conveyed this power.’ Paul simply says it is this power.

This is likely why Paul said with confidence to Timothy, 2 Timothy 3:15-16: You have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Is the nature of this divine revelation, God’s inspired word, and all that God has done to reveal Himself to humanity, sufficient to enable a fallen man to respond willingly to His appeals? Focusing only on the nature of mankind ignores this question. Is the word of God, that which brought everything into existence, sufficiently powerful to accomplish the purpose for which the Scripture says it was sent?

Isaiah 55:11: So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. All Christians would have to admit that God’s word is sufficient to accomplish its biblically stated purpose, but what is that purpose? Why did God have these powerful truths recorded for us and spread throughout the world? Let’s allow the apostle John to answer that question for us:

John 20:31: These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. The purpose for these truths being inspired and written is so “that you may believe,” and the world along with you.

John 17:21: That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me.
22 I have given to them the glory and honor which You have given Me, that they may be one [even] as We are one:
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.

So, do you think that God’s purpose in having these inspired truths written have returned to Him void? I do not.

The nature of the gospel and God’s revelation is sufficient to enable a lost man to respond willingly to its appeals or instructions.

There is no extra work God must do to change the nature of lost humanity to give the gospel a measure of sufficiency. In other words, God does not need to “reconcile” (fix) the nature of the fallen man in order to enable him to respond willingly to His own appeal to be reconciled from that fallen condition. This most certainly is putting the proverbial cart before the horse as Calvinists are so fond of doing.

 

[TomL]

Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

N.T. Wright, a leading New Testament scholar, comments on this passage saying, "This brief discussion of Paul’s gospel thus indicates that, for him, ‘the gospel’, also translatable as ‘the good news’, was the power of the creator God."

It is tempting to say, ‘the gospel carried this divine power,’ or ‘the gospel conveyed this power.’ Paul simply says it is this power.

This is likely why Paul said with confidence to Timothy, 2 Timothy 3:15-16: You have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Is the nature of this divine revelation, God’s inspired word, and all that God has done to reveal Himself to humanity, sufficient to enable a fallen man to respond willingly to His appeals? Focusing only on the nature of mankind ignores this question. Is the word of God, that which brought everything into existence, sufficiently powerful to accomplish the purpose for which the Scripture says it was sent?

Isaiah 55:11: So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. All Christians would have to admit that God’s word is sufficient to accomplish its biblically stated purpose, but what is that purpose? Why did God have these powerful truths recorded for us and spread throughout the world? Let’s allow the apostle John to answer that question for us:

John 20:31: These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. The purpose for these truths being inspired and written is so “that you may believe,” and the world along with you.

John 17:21: That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me.
22 I have given to them the glory and honor which You have given Me, that they may be one [even] as We are one:
23 I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me.

So, do you think that God’s purpose in having these inspired truths written have returned to Him void? I do not.

The nature of the gospel and God’s revelation is sufficient to enable a lost man to respond willingly to its appeals or instructions.

There is no extra work God must do to change the nature of lost humanity to give the gospel a measure of sufficiency. In other words, God does not need to “reconcile” (fix) the nature of the fallen man in order to enable him to respond willingly to His own appeal to be reconciled from that fallen condition. This most certainly is putting the proverbial cart before the horse as Calvinists are so fond of doing.

Yep, the Calvinist gospel lacks the power scripture attributes to the true gospel.

 

[TedT]

If this is true, why create those HE knows will not accept HIS gift of faith in light of the verses which suggest HE wants hell to be empty and none to perish.

It is know as free will. That is what God created us with.

Of course HE created us with a free will
BUT
why did HE create those whom HE foreknew would end in hell by their free will when HE says HE does not want any to perish??

All HE had to do to keep hell empty was to not create those folk whom HE knew would mis-use their free will to become HIS enemy and end in hell! ??

The bible, the story of GOD's interaction with Man, ends with HIS marriage to the Holy Church which suggests to me that this marriage is the reason for our creation. So why create those whom HE foreknew would never chose to accept HIS proposal just to send them to hell which HE has said HE does not want to do?????

Some tweaking to your approach would seem to be necessary...

 

[FreeInChrist]

Of course HE created us with a free will
BUT
why did HE create those whom HE foreknew would end in hell by their free will when HE says HE does not want any to perish??

All HE had to do to keep hell empty was to not create those folk whom HE knew would mis-use their free will to become HIS enemy and end in hell! ??

The bible, the story of GOD's interaction with Man, ends with HIS marriage to the Holy Church which suggests to me that this marriage is the reason for our creation. So why create those whom HE foreknew would never chose to accept HIS proposal just to send them to hell which HE has said HE does not want to do?????

Some tweaking to your approach would seem to be necessary...

Look I have a theory and theory's on here are not looked at other then something to say "you are wrong"

But I believe it is a tie in and a tie back to Satan... and the 1/3 of the angels who went with him and how they have gotten hold of mankind through the centuries because we are told 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Satan is the God of this world..... And I believe our Heavenly Father created mankind just a little lower then the angels and
we have been in a continuing struggle between the two.... where we have to chose and we here have all chosen the Father by our faith in Jesus.... And that tho others who want to continue in their wretched lifestyles made a choice to the other side.

Satan said he would be like God.... an influencing he does also.

Now I will stop here as this is not the place for this and I already have too many on here thinking I am so totally weird
so I will stop

 

[Salty]

Look I have a theory and theory's on here are not looked at other then something to say "you are wrong"

But I believe it is a tie in and a tie back to Satan... and the 1/3 of the angels who went with him and how they have gotten hold of mankind through the centuries because we are told 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Satan is the God of this world..... And I believe our Heavenly Father created mankind just a little lower then the angels and
we have been in a continuing struggle between the two.... where we have to chose and we here have all chosen the Father by our faith in Jesus.... And that tho others who want to continue in their wretched lifestyles made a choice to the other side.

Satan said he would be like God.... an influencing he does also.

Now I will stop here as this is not the place for this and I already have too many on here thinking I am so totally weird
so I will stop

But we like weird