What is The Rapture?

Do yourself a favor and don't lie to us about the million dollars.
As much as I'd like it, doing so just makes you look bad.


Zec 14:3-4 WEB 3 Then Yahweh will go out and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, making a very great valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


1Th 4:17 WEB then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.


The scripture clearly says that at the second coming, Jesus sets foot on the Mt of Olives.

Paul states that at the harpadzo, we will meet the Lord in the air.

The question is what is the tribulation period?
Why is the tribulation taking place?
SteveB says: "Do yourself a favor and don't lie to us about the million dollars."

#1 sin amongst christians today= bearing false witness

i never lied so you need to go to the LORD and ask for forgiveness.

The OFFER Stands and is for $1,000.00 (one thousand dollars)


Both of the scriptures you posted i am 100% AGREEMENT and they BOTH occur at His Second Coming.

Try a little harder.
 
And none of it is of any importance anyway. It's "Eschatology" (rank speculation).

The end will come in EXACTLY the fashion that it's been planned out by God, and our lame attempts at "Defining" any of it are useless. I expect as the time grows nearer, the CHURCH (not the "theologians") will see in the Spirit how to react.

ALL of it is of VITAL IMPORTANCE = God said so !!!

"No lie is of the Truth" - 1 John 2:21

The End will come EXACTLY as the OT Prophets, the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles said.

TRUTH #1 - Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come."

Peace to you my Brother Bob
 
First you are assuming it is wrong. You have not proven that.
You said I was judging. Your words implied I was wrong to ask a question whether you were of God. 1 John 4:1 command me to find out.
Second you are making eschatology a matter of salvation.
No, I am asking if you are born again because your answers are not bible.
Third we do not know all your views to judge that and all we have is your claim and you are assuming you have everything right
On this I do. God told Daniel to close the book until the times of the end and guess what? We are at the times of the end and God's light is allowing us to be prepared before a thing happens. God prepares His people.
Fourth you are still asking though I already told you I am
Then get your doctrine in line with Scripture and stop leaning on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind. Not everything Gentiles have developed as doctrine is correct and there will be judgment for 1900 years.
 
And none of it is of any importance anyway. It's "Eschatology" (rank speculation).

The end will come in EXACTLY the fashion that it's been planned out by God, and our lame attempts at "Defining" any of it are useless. I expect as the time grows nearer, the CHURCH (not the "theologians") will see in the Spirit how to react.
Bob says: "I expect as the time grows nearer, the CHURCH (not the "theologians") will see in the Spirit how to react."

100% AGREE
 
The book of daniel speaks of two 3.5 "times" .. people invent an idea with two periods of 3.5 years. (called trib, but I call fib) However, Revelation already has two instances of 3.5 in it. The 3.5 years that the two witnesses preached and did miracles, and the 3.5 days they were left to rot before being resurrected in full sight of the great city.

if the two witnesses are figurative of churches, and the great city is the world, this would probably be the rapture. (which would make it a late rapture)
 
The book of daniel speaks of two 3.5 "times" .. people invent an idea with two periods of 3.5 years. (called trib, but I call fib) However, Revelation already has two instances of 3.5 in it. The 3.5 years that the two witnesses preached and did miracles, and the 3.5 days they were left to rot before being resurrected in full sight of the great city.

if the two witnesses are figurative of churches, and the great city is the world, this would probably be the rapture. (which would make it a late rapture)
Please post the scripture showing two separate 3.5 year periods in Revelation - thank you
 
Revelation Chapter 11.
Yes, i am aware of ch11

And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Where do you see another 3.5 years?
 
The book of daniel speaks of two 3.5 "times" .. people invent an idea with two periods of 3.5 years. (called trib, but I call fib) However, Revelation already has two instances of 3.5 in it. The 3.5 years that the two witnesses preached and did miracles, and the 3.5 days they were left to rot before being resurrected in full sight of the great city.

if the two witnesses are figurative of churches, and the great city is the world, this would probably be the rapture. (which would make it a late rapture)
OK, i thought you said two instances of 3.5 years.

two sets of 3.5 in ch11 - 3.5 years and then 3.5 days
 
There is no rapture, there is no escape. The Gentile Church will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble with Israel.
The Times of the Gentiles will end with the destruction of the Gentile nations, whether through war or some cataclysmic event from space. There is mention of "stars falling down from heaven" and something the size of a "mountain striking earth."

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. Lk 21:11.

An asteroid or comet heading straight for earth would cause men's hearts to fail them and great stress and anguish. Pay attention. War is happening. There will be signs in the heavens. Astronomical signs. The sun shall be darkened, the moon not give her (reflective) light. The heavens itself shall be shaken.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Lk 21:24–26.

The early Church age in which Christ began to build His Church in accordance with covenant and prophecy begins on the day of the Feast of Harvests (Pentecost) and 3000 Jews are saved and born-again and filled with their prophesied Holy Spirit of Promise. Christ adding more Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47.) And for four decades the Church Christ built is populated by Jews and Israel is receiving Her Savior. Thousands upon thousands of Jews becoming born-again as the Holy Spirit is POURED - not sprinkled - out upon Israel. This continued until the destruction of their Temple and the "ism" of Judaism was halted.

The Times of the Gentiles will end with the destruction of Gentile nations and last I checked Gentile Christians live in those nations. The Gentile Church shall not escape. Gentiles have no covenant with God and the same destruction He heaped upon Israel in 70 AD the same will happen to Gentile nations. Israel is God's Covenant people. Israel is God's Bride. Israel is God's Church and the apple of His eye, and He did not spare the rod. Do you actually think that Gentiles who have no covenant with God will escape the coming judgment upon them? Look what He did to His Bride.

Terrible things are coming. Frightening things. Things that will make your heart stop.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every rmountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev. 6:12–17.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Rev. 8:7.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. Rev. 8:8–9.

Look at what will fall from the sky.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Rev. 8:10–11.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Rev. 8:12.

All of these things will fall upon earth from the sky. What's up with the sky?
Do not deceive yourselves. There is no rapture. Christians - Jew and Gentile - will witness all these things together from different places upon earth as God readies His return. Christ will return "in like manner" the way He went up. It will be the same way He comes down. Keep your eyes on the heavens. There is a great deal of activity taking place in the heavens.
 
Scoffers = False teachers.

Let's say Peter IS writing to Jewish Christians.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation 2 Peter 3:2–4.

WHO is it that is waiting for this rapture? Gentile Christians. IF Gentiles go through the Time of Jacob's trouble and the Jews know about this teaching of a rapture in the Gentile Church, and there is no rapture, then WHO is saying "where is the promise of His coming (rapture)" that doesn't come? "Where is OUR rapture?" Where is OUR rapture?"

They shall also say "Peace and safety", but sudden destruction comes upon them.
Open your eyes. There is no rapture.
 
The Gentile Church is not going to be protected. They are going through the Times of Jacob's Trouble along with Israel - even against them from what I read in Scripture.

The early Church era of the Jews beginning on the day of the Feast of Harvests (Pentecost) ended with the destruction of their Temple by the Romans in A.D. 70, and then God began bringing in hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant idol-worshiping Gentiles as the "ism" of Judaism ended. Without a Temple the first Jewish Christians began to center their religion around their Feasts and that continued throughout the centuries up to this day. Gentile believers will undergo the same judgment from God. It doesn't matter to me what other men thought with regard to the Scriptures, for me if it isn't chapter and verse it's chatter and worse.
What you have stated is not found in scripture. This hour of testing that comes upon the world that Jesus will protect the church from. What is that? And why would God pour out the fullness of His wrath on His children?
The end of the Times of the Gentiles will come with the destruction of Gentile nations, whether through war or cataclysmic events from space. And the last I saw is that Gentile Christians populate these nations so they will endure God's judgment and punishment. It is arrogant to think and believe Gentile Christians will escape God's judgment and punishment through a rapture (escape) when covenant Israel, who is God's Bride and Church and apple of His eye, endured the destruction of their nation and worship centers (Temple/synagogues) as punishment for their sin as prophesied in Scripture by both Jesus and the prophets. In other words, those God loves He chastises, and tribulation has a great side-effect. It also serves to purify God's people.
Sinners will endure God's judgment and punishment. The Great Tribulation centers on Israel. Those who are not believers will go through the Great Tribulation, but the elect who are still on Earth (due to being unbelievers at the time of the rapture), will be spared from death by the Father shortening the time of the Great Tribulation. (For the sake of the elect.)
There are several sources in Scripture for His coming. Zechariah is one of them. There are others.
They are all together pieces of the puzzle.
 
Scoffers = False teachers.

Let's say Peter IS writing to Jewish Christians.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation 2 Peter 3:2–4.

WHO is it that is waiting for this rapture? Gentile Christians. IF Gentiles go through the Time of Jacob's trouble and the Jews know about this teaching of a rapture in the Gentile Church, and there is no rapture, then WHO is saying "where is the promise of His coming (rapture)" that doesn't come? "Where is OUR rapture?" Where is OUR rapture?"

They shall also say "Peace and safety", but sudden destruction comes upon them.
Open your eyes. There is no rapture.
It is the CHURCH that is to be raptured, and Paul is clear that in the church there is neither Gentile nor Jew. So please, stop violating the order God has put within the church.
 
You said: "Paul does not say that they must first be resurrected."

Do you believe that a rapture can take place before the Resurrection?
I am saying that it is not certain whether a resurrection is required, as they are not coming back to life to live on Earth. That is all. They are entering their eternal rest as the rest are. I am saying, again, there is a modicum of uncertainty as John speaks of the first Resurrection in Revelation 20, and it is not related to the rapture found in Thessalonians.
 
It is the CHURCH that is to be raptured, and Paul is clear that in the church there is neither Gentile nor Jew. So please, stop violating the order God has put within the church.
Gentile propaganda. Gentiles don’t even have a covenant with God and you think you’re going to escape judgment? You’re very naive.
 
You said I was judging. Your words implied I was wrong to ask a question whether you were of God. 1 John 4:1 command me to find out.

No, I am asking if you are born again because your answers are not bible.
Nonsense, the catching up is in the bible. You have allowed your distaste for another (Darby) to color your view and to read into my comments what I have not stated
 
Gentile propaganda. Gentiles don’t even have a covenant with God and you think you’re going to escape judgment? You’re very naive.
Do gentiles partake of the cup?

1 Corinthians 11:25 (ESV) — 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Looks like your claim has already been disproven. Should I ask if you have been born agaIn?
 
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