What do JW's Believe ?

[Keiw1]

That’s because they rejected their Messiah!



Again, I have tried to deal with the Greek, not the English translation. There is no Greek ms or any numerous examples that has the Tetragrammaton in it for the NT writings. Kurios is the Greek word for Lord. A capital K always indicates that God is being referenced in relation to the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. Which is critical for when Jude calls Jesus “our only Sovereign and Lord”!


Doug

All through the OT served the Abrahamic God and down to this day=a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah)
Jerome who had originals told the Catholic leader in the 300,s prior to translating the latin vulgate that Gods name belongs in the NT every spot where OT is quoted and the name is there.
In 2015 the divine name kjv came out--Gods name in over 7000 places( nearly 6800 OT and over 200 NT where OT is quoted. Not by mistake but because it belongs.

 

[TibiasDad]

Do you understand English? Through and for him=100% fact that another had to do it. Gen 1:27= HE created, not WE.

You have not demonstrated this, you’ve only said it. You also have ignored the “in him” that is the foundation for the “through him and for him”!

Secondly, the Bible isn’t written in English, but Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Do you understand these languages?

The “we” is a corporate unity that expresses itself as a singular entity. For instance, Procter and Gamble is a singular entity, within which there are multiple distinct factions that all identify as being Procter and Gamble.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all are responsible for various aspects of the whole and singular purpose of the Godhead! They are identical in nature of being, capacity and will. Thus, the parts of the “we” are indistinguishable and are, in reality, a singular “he”!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

All through the OT served the Abrahamic God and down to this day=a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah)
Jerome who had originals told the Catholic leader in the 300,s prior to translating the latin vulgate that Gods name belongs in the NT every spot where OT is quoted and the name is there.
In 2015 the divine name kjv came out--Gods name in over 7000 places( nearly 6800 OT and over 200 NT where OT is quoted. Not by mistake but because it belongs.

I have no problem with that, for this is not the real issue! The issue is that the NT citations are being applied to Jesus Christ! Yahweh, in the majority of the NT cases, is referring to Jesus. In other words, the NT says Jesus is Yahweh!

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

You have not demonstrated this, you’ve only said it. You also have ignored the “in him” that is the foundation for the “through him and for him”!

Secondly, the Bible isn’t written in English, but Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Do you understand these languages?

The “we” is a corporate unity that expresses itself as a singular entity. For instance, Procter and Gamble is a singular entity, within which there are multiple distinct factions that all identify as being Procter and Gamble.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all are responsible for various aspects of the whole and singular purpose of the Godhead! They are identical in nature of being, capacity and will. Thus, the parts of the “we” are indistinguishable and are, in reality, a singular “he”!


Doug

The statement--i created by myself= 1 single being did the creating. I showed you bible proof.

 

[Keiw1]

I have no problem with that, for this is not the real issue! The issue is that the NT citations are being applied to Jesus Christ! Yahweh, in the majority of the NT cases, is referring to Jesus. In other words, the NT says Jesus is Yahweh!

Doug

Psalm 110:1-quoted at Matt 22:44 proves Jesus is not YHVH. The utterance of Jehovah( LORD) to my Lord( Jesus is sit at MY( NOT OURS) right hand until i( not we) make your enemies your footstool. One cannot sit at their own right hand. You are being mislead.
Errors in trinity translations are blinding you to truth.

 

[Bobby Walker]

How many problems should jehovah witnesses believe. But there's only one that makes me totally reject anything they believe or have to say and that is.

• Salvation: They believe that salvation requires faith in Christ, association with God’s organization (their religion), and obedience to its rules.

 

[Keiw1]

How many problems should jehovah witnesses believe. But there's only one that makes me totally reject anything they believe or have to say and that is.

• Salvation: They believe that salvation requires faith in Christ, association with God’s organization (their religion), and obedience to its rules.

Luke 10:16 proves them correct. Its not their rules, they teach Gods rules.

 

[TibiasDad]

The statement--i created by myself= 1 single being did the creating. I showed you bible proof.

So then Jesus is Yahweh, or the Father is, or the Holy Spirit: all three are scripturally present at the creation. Thus, “Let us make man is our image.” We were created in the Imago Dei!

Gen 1:1In the beginning God [the Father] created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the [Holy] Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [Jesus] was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him [Jesus] was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Col1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Heb1:1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

So Keiw1, you have to reconcile three distinct personalities being actively engaged in the creation even with “by myself”! Trinitarians have no problem in doing so, but you can’t bring yourself dealing scripturally with the facts before you!


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

So then Jesus is Yahweh, or the Father is, or the Holy Spirit: all three are scripturally present at the creation. Thus, “Let us make man is our image.” We were created in the Imago Dei!

Gen 1:1In the beginning God [the Father] created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the [Holy] Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [Jesus] was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him [Jesus] was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Col1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Heb1:1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

So Keiw1, you have to reconcile three distinct personalities being actively engaged in the creation even with “by myself”! Trinitarians have no problem in doing so, but you can’t bring yourself dealing scripturally with the facts before you!


Doug

You obviously can't understand english or reason correctly for yourself. I showed you Psalm 110:1 quoted at Matt 22:44--proves 100% Jesus is not YHVH(Jehovah)--one CANNOT sit at their own right hand-its impossible. Reason for yourself. You are being mislead. Do as God commanded you--Be like the Bereans and make sure of all things. You are listening to these-2Cor 11:12-15)

 

[Bobby Walker]

Luke 10:16 proves them correct. Its not their rules, they teach Gods rules.

Well the first part is they believe in a different Jesus. The second part is the scripture that you didn't even bother to display is talking about people that are saved and people that are unsafe. According to Jehovah Witnesses if you don't go to their church and abide by their rules you're not saved.

So that makes your Proof text out of context because if you accept Jesus but you don't go to a Jehovah Witness church according to them you're not saved.

"The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

You don't possibly believe That the only people that witness the Christ are Jehovah Witnesses to you?

Here's what Luke 10:16 Is all about.

This is the summary statement of the first half of the chapter: it's about God, not us. Jesus is sending seventy-two disciples to preach the kingdom of God and call the people to repentance. They go to prepare cities He will visit. The disciples are to pray God will provide more messengers to reach those ready to listen. As they go, God will provide housing and food and make sure their personal needs are taken care of. If a town accepts their message, the disciples are to provide physical and spiritual restoration commensurate with God's kingdom, as empowered by Jesus, God the Son. If the cities don't accept them, God will judge them (Luke 10:1–15).

The disciples are messengers, just as we are. If we spread the gospel of the Bible under the power and instruction of the Holy Spirit, those we speak to will react to God. If we rely on our own charisma and/or preach a gospel that does not align with what is in Scripture, our audience will follow or reject us. That's the goal of cult leaders, but it doesn't help anyone. We can't save. Only God can.

Many people today claim that they would follow Jesus if only they could see Him personally. His ministry on earth proves otherwise. Few people saw Jesus more than the people of Capernaum. Few witnessed more miracles of healing or saw more demons cast out. And yet, people still refused to accept Him as the Messiah. There is no reason to think the world would be different, today. We know it won't; Jesus will literally, physically reign from the throne in Jerusalem, and yet a great army from around the world will congregate and try to depose Him (Revelation 20:7–10). There is no proof great enough to convince everyone to follow Christ. bibleref.com

 

[Keiw1]

Well the first part is they believe in a different Jesus. The second part is the scripture that you didn't even bother to display is talking about people that are saved and people that are unsafe. According to Jehovah Witnesses if you don't go to their church and abide by their rules you're not saved.

So that makes your Proof text out of context because if you accept Jesus but you don't go to a Jehovah Witness church according to them you're not saved.

"The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

You don't possibly believe That the only people that witness the Christ are Jehovah Witnesses to you?

Here's what Luke 10:16 Is all about.

This is the summary statement of the first half of the chapter: it's about God, not us. Jesus is sending seventy-two disciples to preach the kingdom of God and call the people to repentance. They go to prepare cities He will visit. The disciples are to pray God will provide more messengers to reach those ready to listen. As they go, God will provide housing and food and make sure their personal needs are taken care of. If a town accepts their message, the disciples are to provide physical and spiritual restoration commensurate with God's kingdom, as empowered by Jesus, God the Son. If the cities don't accept them, God will judge them (Luke 10:1–15).

The disciples are messengers, just as we are. If we spread the gospel of the Bible under the power and instruction of the Holy Spirit, those we speak to will react to God. If we rely on our own charisma and/or preach a gospel that does not align with what is in Scripture, our audience will follow or reject us. That's the goal of cult leaders, but it doesn't help anyone. We can't save. Only God can.

Many people today claim that they would follow Jesus if only they could see Him personally. His ministry on earth proves otherwise. Few people saw Jesus more than the people of Capernaum. Few witnessed more miracles of healing or saw more demons cast out. And yet, people still refused to accept Him as the Messiah. There is no reason to think the world would be different, today. We know it won't; Jesus will literally, physically reign from the throne in Jerusalem, and yet a great army from around the world will congregate and try to depose Him (Revelation 20:7–10). There is no proof great enough to convince everyone to follow Christ. bibleref.com

Even the trinity scholars know 100% that the word is not called capitol G God at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. They say nothing. They pull in billions tax free every year thus will say nothing.
If the trinity religionsssssssss had holy spirit they wouldn't be a divided house that will not stand and would be able to understand this simple bible milk= a true mark of the one religion that has Jesus=1Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division( 1 single religion)--but they cant they are a mass of confusion.
Jesus was speaking about his appointed teachers at Luke10:16=these today=Matt 24:45

 

[TibiasDad]

Psalm 110:1-quoted at Matt 22:44 proves Jesus is not YHVH. The utterance of Jehovah( LORD) to my Lord( Jesus is sit at MY( NOT OURS) right hand until i( not we) make your enemies your footstool. One cannot sit at their own right hand. You are being mislead.
Errors in trinity translations are blinding you to truth.

The Father disagrees with you in scripture:

Hebrews 1:8But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

Verse 13 above, is the latter part of Psalm 110:1. So if God the Father calls the Son ‘God’ in quoting Psalm 45:6-8, then the sitting “at my right hand” means the Son is equal to the Father to be able to sit there, for only God can sit upon the throne.

(One last thing, please note that scripture says “To which of the angels did God ever say,” which means that Jesus/the Word cannot be Michael the Archangel or any other angelic being. This is the death knell for Watchtower Christology!)


Doug

 

[Bobby Walker]

Even the trinity scholars know 100% that the word is not called capitol G God at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. They say nothing. They pull in billions tax free every year thus will say nothing.
If the trinity religionsssssssss had holy spirit they wouldn't be a divided house that will not stand and would be able to understand this simple bible milk= a true mark of the one religion that has Jesus=1Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division( 1 single religion)--but they cant they are a mass of confusion.
Jesus was speaking about his appointed teachers at Luke10:16=these today=Matt 24:45

Well there is there that completely explains the JW confusion. It's a mess I tell you

 

[Keiw1]

The Father disagrees with you in scripture:

Hebrews 1:8But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

Verse 13 above, is the latter part of Psalm 110:1. So if God the Father calls the Son ‘God’ in quoting Psalm 45:6-8, then the sitting “at my right hand” means the Son is equal to the Father to be able to sit there, for only God can sit upon the throne.

(One last thing, please note that scripture says “To which of the angels did God ever say,” which means that Jesus/the Word cannot be Michael the Archangel or any other angelic being. This is the death knell for Watchtower Christology!)


Doug

twisted trinity bible errors. Catholicism made many to fit false council teachings. See sit at MY( singular) =right hand, not our right hand. You just wont believe English for yourself or reason correctly on matters.
Jw leaders were allowed in to the Catholic archives, either 60,s or 70,s, They came out with 100% proof the 3 witness bearers are the water, spirit and blood. Catholicism translated in the Father, son and holy spirit-to mislead. They were never allowed back in for exposing that truth. You are putting your eternal life into altered translations with errors.

God appointed Jesus as king to sit on a throne-Daniel 7:13-15 again proving your error in thought. The 144,000 little flock will sit on thrones as well( Rev 1:6, Rev 20:6)

Tell us all who fellows( partners) are at Psalm 45:7-- it teaches Jesus has a God and was anointed with the oil of exultation more than his fellows( partners) thus God cannot be included in fellows because he did the anointing, fellows is plural thus cannot be the holy spirit--the only other ones in heaven are angels. Any one who can understand English and reason logically knows 100% its angels.
Like at Heb 1:4--If Jesus wasn't given the name above theirs( angels) by God he would equal to the angels. The name made him above them.

 

[TibiasDad]

You obviously can't understand english or reason correctly for yourself.

Attack the man is not becoming!

I showed you Psalm 110:1 quoted at Matt 22:44--proves 100% Jesus is not YHVH(Jehovah)--one CANNOT sit at their own right hand-it’s impossible.

There is a difference in their personhood, not their being! We are not claiming The Son is the Father, but that the Son of God is God in nature of being just as the Father is God in being.

Reason for yourself. You are being mislead. Do as God commanded you--Be like the Bereans and make sure of all things. You are listening to these-2Cor 11:12-15)

I have been, and continue to be a Berean; that’s why I believe that Jesus is God in nature. I would venture a guess that I have done more personal study than the whole of the Kingdom Hall ten minutes away from my home. As I’ve said before, my experience with JWs has taught me that you are not taught to study independently, in fact it is discouraged! You don’t study the Bible, you study Awake, and the Watchtower materials in their various writings.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Well there is there that completely explains the JW confusion. It's a mess I tell you

i have studied trinity religions, JW religions, other religions, history, true God worship history and i carefully studied the teachings of Jesus. Undeniable fact= In every translation on earth, the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers--Here i will help you with a simple one that every true follower knows by heart already-Matt 6:33-Keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his ( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--i know 100% no trinity religion on Gods earth teaches that correctly-Why? Because they do not listen to Jesus and teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first. Their bibles are altered to mislead not to mention many translating errors. I have studied facts since 1961.

 

[Keiw1]

Attack the man is not becoming!



There is a difference in their personhood, not their being! We are not claiming The Son is the Father, but that the Son of God is God in nature of being just as the Father is God in being.


I have been, and continue to be a Berean; that’s why I believe that Jesus is God in nature. I would venture a guess that I have done more personal study than the whole of the Kingdom Hall ten minutes away from my home. As I’ve said before, my experience with JWs has taught me that you are not taught to study independently, in fact it is discouraged! You don’t study the Bible, you study Awake, and the Watchtower materials in their various writings.


Doug

You would have to teach--God has a God if Jesus were God. Because Jesus has a God just like us. And the 2nd line at John 1:1 in simple English would read--And God( word) was with God= impossible. There is only 1 God.

 

[TibiasDad]

twisted trinity bible errors. Catholicism made many to fit false council teachings. See sit at MY( singular) =right hand, not our right hand. You just wont believe English for yourself or reason correctly on matters.
Jw leaders were allowed in to the Catholic archives, either 60,s or 70,s, They came out with 100% proof the 3 witness bearers are the water, spirit and blood. Catholicism translated in the Father, son and holy spirit-to mislead. They were never allowed back in for exposing that truth. You are putting your eternal life into altered translations with errors.

God appointed Jesus as king to sit on a throne-Daniel 7:13-15 again proving your error in thought. The 144,000 little flock will sit on thrones as well( Rev 1:6, Rev 20:6)

Tell us all who fellows( partners) are at Psalm 45:7-- it teaches Jesus has a God and was anointed with the oil of exultation more than his fellows( partners) thus God cannot be included in fellows because he did the anointing, fellows is plural thus cannot be the holy spirit--the only other ones in heaven are angels. Any one who can understand English and reason logically knows 100% its angels.
Like at Heb 1:4--If Jesus wasn't given the name above theirs( angels) by God he would equal to the angels. The name made him above them.

To borrow your phraseology, “can’t you understand English?” Hebrews states that the Father calls the Son “God”. (And it says so in the Greek as well as English!)

In English (and Greek) it says that God never called any angel “his Son”; so the Son was never an angel!

As for 1 John 5:7-8, modern translations do not include the three “heavenly witnesses” because we have a better understanding of the manuscripts. The earliest mss don’t have it, and none of the early church fathers ever quoted or referenced it. I know nothing about any alleged trip by JWs to the Vatican, but it had nothing to do with the removal of it from modern translations.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You would have to teach--God has a God if Jesus were God.

Jesus as a human had a God.

Because Jesus has a God just like us. And the 2nd line at John 1:1 in simple English would read--And God( word) was with God= impossible. There is only 1 God.

The Word/Son was with God the Father. We don’t speak of God as one person, but one being! There is a difference! There is only one God! Not there is only one person who is God. These are very different things!

Doug

 

[synergy]

All through the OT served the Abrahamic God and down to this day=a single being God=YHVH(Jehovah)
Jerome who had originals told the Catholic leader in the 300,s prior to translating the latin vulgate that Gods name belongs in the NT every spot where OT is quoted and the name is there.
In 2015 the divine name kjv came out--Gods name in over 7000 places( nearly 6800 OT and over 200 NT where OT is quoted. Not by mistake but because it belongs.

The Apostles used the word κύριος (Lord) as God's name throughout the NT. If you have a problem with that then you can file a complaint against it at your nearest Church.