What do JW's Believe ?

[Khazar]

The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible

The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one’s preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word’s function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word’s root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun’s case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower’s bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower’s pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.Got?

 

[Ezra]

The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible

The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one’s preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word’s function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word’s root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun’s case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower’s bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower’s pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.Got?

Imagine that, just make stuff up as you go along. No wonder it sounds ridiculous when you try to defend it.

 

[Keiw1]

Now that's funny. Jehovah witnesses make some stuff up and then claim their false god change to the round. It's easy to find out what Jehovah Witnesses teach and how bad it really is. So go ahead and try to defend it all you like.

Obviously you don't know what the bible teaches. I showed you the scriptures. So why are you discussing things you don't have a clue about? Prove the scriptures i showed you are wrong then, Don't just say i am wrong with 0 proof.

 

[Keiw1]

Not true, The founder of your false religion Russell was a false prophet. Simple as that. He made prophecies that didn't happen.

Who was Charles Taze Russell? | GotQuestions.org

Who was Charles Taze Russell? How, why, and when did Charles Taze Russell start the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

www.gotquestions.org

He made an error. If he was so false how is it that in 1879 he said--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914?( Rev 6:4) occurred in 1914=ww1) Rev 6:2 the ride of the white horse=the war in heaven, he erred by thinking it was this ride-Rev 19:11) Why because it says at 6:2-He receives his crown, Michael took the ride at the war in heaven, only Jesus gets the crown. They hadn't discovered yet that Michael is Jesus thus confused that ride for 19:11 ride. Its the same ride continued from 6:2 because Jesus is Michael. He uncovered many truths. 1750 years of errors out of altered and error filled translations does not occur overnight. It takes quite awhile.

 

[TibiasDad]

Jesus appointed his teachers on earth today( Matt 24:45) just like he appointed the apostles. And the bible says-If one rejects them, they are rejecting Jesus and God as well. Luke 10:16)--that is Gods will, Jesus heads the congregation in his 1 religion. Jesus appoints the ones taking the lead in his religion. And he sends them holy spirit to guide them into all truth, at the proper time those truths get revealed.

Matt 24:42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NIV)

The Watchtower interpretation of Matt 24:45 is made with gross disregard of the context in which it is couched.

1) The overarching theme of this section of Jesus’s teaching is about being prepared for the Lord’s return and final judgment. (24:42-44, 50-51)

2) There is a contrasting of good servants and bad servants. (24:45-49)

3) The teaching delineates the consequences for both types of servants that will be given when the “Master returns” to find how they had been living in his absence: Be put in charge of all the Master’s possessions, or “He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

4) Thus, verse 45 is not establishing an organizational “teacher” for others, but it is asking a question concerning what kind of servant is the “good and faithful” kind? The answer is given in verses 46-49: The one who is doing what he was told to do in the Master’s absence. That is the only difference between the two types of servants; one is found doing what they are supposed to be doing upon the Master’s return, and had neglected his duties and abused the ones for which he was supposed to be caring.

We are all servants with God given responsibilities to carry out while Jesus is away: the good and faithful ones will be found actively engaged in doing their duties when he returns!

The Watchtower interpretation cannot be supported by the context of Jesus’s teaching!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible

The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one’s preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word’s function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word’s root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun’s case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower’s bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower’s pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.Got?

Spot on! Θεὸς is never the nominative in any of the clauses, and thus is always a predicate to the nominative/subject which is always ὁ Λόγος.

In English, Θεὸς, always has an adjectival quality wherein it tells us something in relation to or about the subject, ὁ Λόγος, the Word. Thus, the Word was in the beginning; the Word was with God; and the Word was God in nature of his being.

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Matt 24:42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NIV)

The Watchtower interpretation of Matt 24:45 is made with gross disregard of the context in which it is couched.

1) The overarching theme of this section of Jesus’s teaching is about being prepared for the Lord’s return and final judgment. (24:42-44, 50-51)

2) There is a contrasting of good servants and bad servants. (24:45-49)

3) The teaching delineates the consequences for both types of servants that will be given when the “Master returns” to find how they had been living in his absence: Be put in charge of all the Master’s possessions, or “He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

4) Thus, verse 45 is not establishing an organizational “teacher” for others, but it is asking a question concerning what kind of servant is the “good and faithful” kind? The answer is given in verses 46-49: The one who is doing what he was told to do in the Master’s absence. That is the only difference between the two types of servants; one is found doing what they are supposed to be doing upon the Master’s return, and had neglected his duties and abused the ones for which he was supposed to be caring.

We are all servants with God given responsibilities to carry out while Jesus is away: the good and faithful ones will be found actively engaged in doing their duties when he returns!

The Watchtower interpretation cannot be supported by the context of Jesus’s teaching!


Doug

Oh yes it is. food at the proper time= spiritual food. These are the ones Jesus appoints over his household( religion).

 

[TibiasDad]

Oh yes it is. food at the proper time= spiritual food. These are the ones Jesus appoints over his household( religion).

This does not imply or otherwise suggest that God has established an organization like the Watchtower.

Again, the clear and unambiguous fact is that the passage is about believers being ready for Christ’s unknown point of return. We are all responsible for caring for each other’s needs, encouraging, teaching, guiding, ie, giving food; and some of us are called to doing this in a higher capacity.

The only point of this teaching is that we should be found being diligent to our Christian responsibilities at Christ’s return, for the consequences of not being found doing our duty will be catastrophic. To add anything to this is beyond the scope of Jesus’s meaning.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

This does not imply or otherwise suggest that God has established an organization like the Watchtower.

Again, the clear and unambiguous fact is that the passage is about believers being ready for Christ’s unknown point of return. We are all responsible for caring for each other’s needs, encouraging, teaching, guiding, ie, giving food; and some of us are called to doing this in a higher capacity.

The only point of this teaching is that we should be found being diligent to our Christian responsibilities at Christ’s return, for the consequences of not being found doing our duty will be catastrophic. To add anything to this is beyond the scope of Jesus’s meaning.


Doug

God is always organized. Jesus presence began here-Rev 6:2--he returns to earth here-Rev 19:11--the world will not like that occurrence.

 

[TibiasDad]

God is always organized.

I don’t believe I said anything different…

Jesus presence began here-Rev 6:2--he returns to earth here-Rev 19:11--

This is another issue altogether and irrelevant to the point of Matt 24.

the world will not like that occurrence.

No, it won’t, but the focus is not on the world in Matt 24:42-ff, but the servants, the members of the church/household- all of them, and which ones are “good and faithful” and which ones aren’t!

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

I don’t believe I said anything different…


This is another issue altogether and irrelevant to the point of Matt 24.



No, it won’t, but the focus is not on the world in Matt 24:42-ff, but the servants, the members of the church/household- all of them, and which ones are “good and faithful” and which ones aren’t!

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.


Doug

I agree, but signs were given to watch for its coming. Revelation is filled with the occurrences that point to its coming. Only 1 single religion that has Jesus understands revelation.

 

[TibiasDad]

I agree, but signs were given to watch for its coming. Revelation is filled with the occurrences that point to its coming.

Revelation is a depiction of what the end days will look like. It is a highly complex and symbolic series of images, none of which have occurred as of yet.

Rev 6:2 says nothing about Christ’s “presence” coming in 1914 or any other time as a prelude before his physical return.
It simply says that the first seal, the rider of the white horse, is one aspect of the final days.

There is no explanation for the details of each seal’s opening. The information within the seals, and other revelations, have no specific dates or points of time attached to them, other than the vague “what must soon take place” in the opening verse of the book. All we know is that it is future, but 2000 years is a unique definition for “what must soon take place”.

One thing is certain, it is not something that began in 1914.

Only 1 single religion that has Jesus understands revelation.

Such hubris is an indication that your teachers have no respect for the Revelation of Jesus Christ. There is too much ambiguity in the revelation for anyone to understand the entire meaning of the book. Indeed there are some sections that are clearer than others, but what you have referenced is not one of them.

Rev 19:11 only indicates that the rider of the white horse in chapter 6 is Jesus, the Word of God, who is now declared to be the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords”! (Which means there is no King or Lord to whom he is not superior; which can only mean that he is God.)

Doug

 

[Lily]

Keiw1 said:
Only 1 single religion that has Jesus understands revelation.

That post proves:

“Stupidity is infinitely more fascinating that intelligence. Intelligence has its limits while stupidity has none.” – Claude Chabrol

 

[Keiw1]

Revelation is a depiction of what the end days will look like. It is a highly complex and symbolic series of images, none of which have occurred as of yet.

Rev 6:2 says nothing about Christ’s “presence” coming in 1914 or any other time as a prelude before his physical return.
It simply says that the first seal, the rider of the white horse, is one aspect of the final days.

There is no explanation for the details of each seal’s opening. The information within the seals, and other revelations, have no specific dates or points of time attached to them, other than the vague “what must soon take place” in the opening verse of the book. All we know is that it is future, but 2000 years is a unique definition for “what must soon take place”.

One thing is certain, it is not something that began in 1914.



Such hubris is an indication that your teachers have no respect for the Revelation of Jesus Christ. There is too much ambiguity in the revelation for anyone to understand the entire meaning of the book. Indeed there are some sections that are clearer than others, but what you have referenced is not one of them.

Rev 19:11 only indicates that the rider of the white horse in chapter 6 is Jesus, the Word of God, who is now declared to be the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords”! (Which means there is no King or Lord to whom he is not superior; which can only mean that he is God.)

Doug

The whole world has watched revelation occur, its nearing the end. Babylon the great is about to fall, that triggers the tribulation. You see its just like Jesus foretold--Luke 17:26--As in the days of Noah the world took no note.) In the days of Noah 99.9% mislead, today 99% minimum. 99% of all religion is false. Jesus is with 1 single religion, only they know revelation correctly.

 

[TibiasDad]

The whole world has watched revelation occur, its nearing the end. Babylon the great is about to fall, that triggers the tribulation. You see its just like Jesus foretold--Luke 17:26--As in the days of Noah the world took no note.) In the days of Noah 99.9% mislead, today 99% minimum. 99% of all religion is false. Jesus is with 1 single religion, only they know revelation correctly.

I find it interesting that your rebuttal is very broad and general in nature, not with specific contextual evidence or information.

Instead of arguing for your interpretations from the texts on which your premise is based, you make generalized statements (ones that most people would not have a problem with), and broad statements from other scriptures that are related to your argument, but not specific to the actual point of discussion.

Formally, this is called misdirection; informally, it’s called a rabbit trail or moving the goalposts.

It is a pattern that I have often seen in the 38 years since my first interaction with Witnesses at my doorstep. In short, doing anything but dealing with the specific scriptures or concepts that they raise in their presentations with people to whom they are speaking.

I can only speak for myself, but if you, or any Witness would hope to persuade me to believe what you are telling me, you must be able to deal with the specific, nitty gritty details of the text or questions at hand.

So then, there is alway hope in my heart to find at least one exception to the rule, and perhaps you could be that exception, so can you exegetically support your interpretation of Matthew 24:45, Rev 6:2, and 19:11.

I have explained why I question your propositions, but have not heard any evidence as to why I should be considered wrong and you correct. The ball is in your court.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

I find it interesting that your rebuttal is very broad and general in nature, not with specific contextual evidence or information.

Instead of arguing for your interpretations from the texts on which your premise is based, you make generalized statements (ones that most people would not have a problem with), and broad statements from other scriptures that are related to your argument, but not specific to the actual point of discussion.

Formally, this is called misdirection; informally, it’s called a rabbit trail or moving the goalposts.

It is a pattern that I have often seen in the 38 years since my first interaction with Witnesses at my doorstep. In short, doing anything but dealing with the specific scriptures or concepts that they raise in their presentations with people to whom they are speaking.

I can only speak for myself, but if you, or any Witness would hope to persuade me to believe what you are telling me, you must be able to deal with the specific, nitty gritty details of the text or questions at hand.

So then, there is alway hope in my heart to find at least one exception to the rule, and perhaps you could be that exception, so can you exegetically support your interpretation of Matthew 24:45, Rev 6:2, and 19:11.

I have explained why I question your propositions, but have not heard any evidence as to why I should be considered wrong and you correct. The ball is in your court.


Doug

Rev 13 can be described with a few English words--The 7 headed( 7 world powers of all time) beast with 10 horns( a place where kingdoms gather)=( united nations)--the 2 horned beast( eagle-lion) Cannot buy or sell( sanctions)--makes fire come down out of the heavens( bombs,missiles)-in Daniel a horn is a kingdom( country)--2 horns=2 country's working together as the final world power))

The 7 headed beast is described--The one that was( league of nations) is not( death stroke) and yet is( united nations)--- Babylon the great= the world empire of false religions= a harlot.

 

[TibiasDad]

Rev 13 can be described with a few English words--The 7 headed( 7 world powers of all time) beast with 10 horns( a place where kingdoms gather)=( united nations)--the 2 horned beast( eagle-lion) Cannot buy or sell( sanctions)--makes fire come down out of the heavens( bombs,missiles)-in Daniel a horn is a kingdom( country)--2 horns=2 country's working together as the final world power))

The 7 headed beast is described--The one that was( league of nations) is not( death stroke) and yet is( united nations)--- Babylon the great= the world empire of false religions= a harlot.

Again, no mention of Rev 6, 19 or Matthew 24:42-ff. Not once have we previously mentioned Rev 13. Quit diverting the question!


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Again, no mention of Rev 6, 19 or Matthew 24:42-ff. Not once have we previously mentioned Rev 13. Quit diverting the question!


Doug

Rev 6:2= the war in heaven, the birth of Gods kingdom in heaven, .-Rev 12 explains both.) Rev 6:4= ww1) Rev 19:11= Gods day of anger upon the wicked. Referred to as Harmageddon. Matt 24:22 is the righteous being brought through the trib and Harmageddon on earth( Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not going anywhere.=The great crowd. Only the little flock gets changed in the twinkling of an eye during the trib.

 

[TibiasDad]

Rev 6:2= the war in heaven, the birth of Gods kingdom in heaven, .-Rev 12 explains both.)

Rev 6:1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

First of all, what does this passage tell us?

A) The Lamb opens the first seal.

B) One of the 24 creatures spoke in a voice that sound like thunder, instructing John to “Come” to see what was in the scroll!

C) John complied and sees 1) a white horse, 2) the horse’s rider who had been given a bow and a crown, and 3) he rode off with the intent and purpose to conquer.

There is no mention of where this conquest was to be made, however, it is not logical to say it is in heaven because this is an event that is still future, and the only war in heaven was when Satan rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven along with a third of the angels. (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:12-16). The only place that needs conquered is earth, where Satan now hold dominion.

The Kingdom of God has always been established in heaven, and there was no need for it to be born in heaven; heaven is where God reigns and God has always reigned, for he is Sovereign over all! The fact that Satan was cast down to Earth and is now the “prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2)

Rev 12 is a very difficult passage to understand, because it appears to recap the birth of Christ on earth- which had already happened by the time John was seeing the vision of Rev 12. It also reinterates the fall of Satan in prehistoric times. These are not events yet to come!

Rev 6:4= ww1) Rev 19:11= Gods day of anger upon the wicked. Referred to as Harmageddon.

It is Armageddon in English. And it is the final battle after the Millennial kingdom is completed. The Hebrew is Har Meggidon, meaning the mountain of Meggidon.

In the Greek the Alpha has the “breath mark” ‘ over it, but in English, there is no “h” sound.

Matt 24:22 is the righteous being brought through the trib and Harmageddon on earth( Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not going anywhere.=The great crowd. Only the little flock gets changed in the twinkling of an eye during the trib.

We aren’t talking about Matt 24:22, but Matt 24:42-ff. The great crowd and little flock are issues for another time. None of your response here has answered any of the questions raised.

It doesn’t explain how your interpretation of the Watchtower being the “wise and faithful servant” can be extrapolated from that text.

It doesn’t explain how Rev 6:2 means that Christ’s presence is established in the world.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Rev 6:1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

First of all, what does this passage tell us?

A) The Lamb opens the first seal.

B) One of the 24 creatures spoke in a voice that sound like thunder, instructing John to “Come” to see what was in the scroll!

C) John complied and sees 1) a white horse, 2) the horse’s rider who had been given a bow and a crown, and 3) he rode off with the intent and purpose to conquer.

There is no mention of where this conquest was to be made, however, it is not logical to say it is in heaven because this is an event that is still future, and the only war in heaven was when Satan rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven along with a third of the angels. (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:12-16). The only place that needs conquered is earth, where Satan now hold dominion.

The Kingdom of God has always been established in heaven, and there was no need for it to be born in heaven; heaven is where God reigns and God has always reigned, for he is Sovereign over all! The fact that Satan was cast down to Earth and is now the “prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2)

Rev 12 is a very difficult passage to understand, because it appears to recap the birth of Christ on earth- which had already happened by the time John was seeing the vision of Rev 12. It also reinterates the fall of Satan in prehistoric times. These are not events yet to come!




It is Armageddon in English. And it is the final battle after the Millennial kingdom is completed. The Hebrew is Har Meggidon, meaning the mountain of Meggidon.

In the Greek the Alpha has the “breath mark” ‘ over it, but in English, there is no “h” sound.


We aren’t talking about Matt 24:22, but Matt 24:42-ff. The great crowd and little flock are issues for another time. None of your response here has answered any of the questions raised.

It doesn’t explain how your interpretation of the Watchtower being the “wise and faithful servant” can be extrapolated from that text.

It doesn’t explain how Rev 6:2 means that Christ’s presence is established in the world.


Douth

Rev 64)=1914--Peace will be taken from the earth-earth does not describe a single war but a world war=ww1--Millions slaughtered -satan and his angels cast down to the earth, he came angry knowing his time is short--filled men's hearts with hatred to slaughter each other. The purpose was to stop the preaching of the good news of the kingdom which had begun, it did stop until 1919. After ww1 millions upon millions died all over the earth from things mentioned of the other 3 riders. My teachers are correct on that matter. In 1879 Mr Russell said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. God showed him the prophecy, he did err( mortal error) on thinking that ride of the white horse was this ride-Rev 19:11. Never the less he was correct on Rev 6 being 1914.