I would laugh if it wasn't such a tragic event for all those who were duped into all that 1844 shenanigans.
Now what is it that the OT instructs us to do with false Prophets? I have the verse somewhere here.....
What do 7th Day Adventists Believe ?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Now what is it that the OT instructs us to do with false Prophets? I have the verse somewhere here.....
Diserner
Well-known member
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. (2 Tim. 2:24-26 NKJ)
We can go into a whole discussion on how judgment should be meted out so the next guy thinks twice about doing the same tragic thing. I'm not a judge nor do I work in a legal environment, so I'll leave judgment to those who are trained specifically for that.
civic
Well-known member
Romans 13
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
So based on that, what would Miller be liable for, since he did ruin many families. Was Miller made liable for anything or did he just get a slap on the wrist?
civic
Well-known member
Sorry brain fart lol. Who is Miller ?
William Miller, the person responsible for the Great Disappointment of 1844. Many followers had given up their possessions in expectation of Christ's return.
Great Disappointment - Wikipedia
civic
Well-known member
Religious leaders should have the same liability as anyone else guilty of such “ crimes”William Miller, the person responsible for the Great Disappointment of 1844. Many followers had given up their possessions in expectation of Christ's return.
Great Disappointment - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
charismaticlady
Active member
I think he committed suicide
civic
Well-known member
I was not able to verify that anywhere online. Do you have a source ?
charismaticlady
Active member
I was wrong. He died the morning of December 20, 1849. Someone told me about the suicide and that he was depressed. That doesn't seem to be true either. I have a book/biography in my personal library on his life called William Miller and the Rise of Adventism by Geroge Knight and was able to look it up.
civic
Well-known member
Ok thanks !
Brakelite
Active member
Great deal of misunderstanding on the 1844 question. Do y'all realise that the great awakening that ensued from the preaching of the second coming, wasn't restricted to North America, but gained equal interest in South America, Australia, and Europe. This was the holy Spirit working globally, warning churches that the prophecies, especially Daniel and Revelation, were indicating that Jesus was returning soon.
Second, it wasn't Miller who first came to an understanding of Daniel 8:14, it was a man by the name of Snow. When Miller heard the interpretation, he was a regular member of his local Baptist church, and felt burdened to preach the same message. He hesitated a number of years, until the burden became too great, and began to minister at great cost to reputation and friends. He didn't do this for monetary gain, glory, or personal satisfaction. Thousands came to Christ as a result of the messages of numerous Advent preachers throughout the country. Miller was just one. 50,000 people believed his particular message re 1844 and awaited Jesus's return. If those who sold all their goods for Christ's sake continued in the faith, do you believe Jesus allowed any harm to come to them?
Over the years I have been an Adventist, I have read and heard many criticisms and vitriol hurled at Miller, White, and the people generally for believing a "false prophecy". Yet Miller never claimed to be a prophet. And more o importantly, I have never seen a viable alternative explanation for 1844 other than that taught today by Seventh Day Adventists, who by the way didn't form into an organised church until the 1860s.
You fellas need to read some history other than the local general press releases which were generally no more generous to Miller and the Advent hopefuls than they are today to Christian evangelism and those waiting in hope of the second coming. Thousands of people came to a genuine experience of Christ as a result of the preaching worldwide of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. The charts and timelines used by Miller and others were a true revelation to nominal churchgoers and unbelievers alike.
Finally, the churches and ministers who rejected the message of the second Advent (which message is still being spread today) it was reported in Christian magazines and editorials went into a state of great declension. There were many instances where those who listened to Miller and others, were thrown out of their churches, their memberships cancelled. One minister who accepted the gospel message was thrown out by his church board. He was also dying of cancer at the time, having a wife and 4 children. He was warned that unless he repudiated the Advent hope, He would lose his ministerial stipend, and his wife and children would be destitute. He never recanted his belief, and died a month later and was buried in an unmarked grave. The great awakening and disappointment didn't take place outside of the general guidance of the holy Spirit and inspiration.
And again. Still no alternative interpretation of the 2300 days and the cleansing of the sanctuary. Including Antiochus. Doesn't fit.
Second, it wasn't Miller who first came to an understanding of Daniel 8:14, it was a man by the name of Snow. When Miller heard the interpretation, he was a regular member of his local Baptist church, and felt burdened to preach the same message. He hesitated a number of years, until the burden became too great, and began to minister at great cost to reputation and friends. He didn't do this for monetary gain, glory, or personal satisfaction. Thousands came to Christ as a result of the messages of numerous Advent preachers throughout the country. Miller was just one. 50,000 people believed his particular message re 1844 and awaited Jesus's return. If those who sold all their goods for Christ's sake continued in the faith, do you believe Jesus allowed any harm to come to them?
Over the years I have been an Adventist, I have read and heard many criticisms and vitriol hurled at Miller, White, and the people generally for believing a "false prophecy". Yet Miller never claimed to be a prophet. And more o importantly, I have never seen a viable alternative explanation for 1844 other than that taught today by Seventh Day Adventists, who by the way didn't form into an organised church until the 1860s.
You fellas need to read some history other than the local general press releases which were generally no more generous to Miller and the Advent hopefuls than they are today to Christian evangelism and those waiting in hope of the second coming. Thousands of people came to a genuine experience of Christ as a result of the preaching worldwide of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. The charts and timelines used by Miller and others were a true revelation to nominal churchgoers and unbelievers alike.
Finally, the churches and ministers who rejected the message of the second Advent (which message is still being spread today) it was reported in Christian magazines and editorials went into a state of great declension. There were many instances where those who listened to Miller and others, were thrown out of their churches, their memberships cancelled. One minister who accepted the gospel message was thrown out by his church board. He was also dying of cancer at the time, having a wife and 4 children. He was warned that unless he repudiated the Advent hope, He would lose his ministerial stipend, and his wife and children would be destitute. He never recanted his belief, and died a month later and was buried in an unmarked grave. The great awakening and disappointment didn't take place outside of the general guidance of the holy Spirit and inspiration.
And again. Still no alternative interpretation of the 2300 days and the cleansing of the sanctuary. Including Antiochus. Doesn't fit.
Diserner
Well-known member
Look, God is merciful.
You can be really stupid and sinful and bring harm upon yourself, and still be saved because somewhere underneath you trusted Christ to save you from your sins.
I believe many SDA are saved just like I believe many RCC are saved and many EO are saved and many Calvinists are saved and many COC are saved and many Word of Faith are saved. Mormons are a little farther out to sea, but it might be possible.
But the pride of "my group got it right" is not Biblical and the ridiculous cognitive dissonance to cover up constant failed or unbiblical claims, can be nothing short of a spirit of error. And the irony of equally false denominations all eagerly condemning each other as antichrist is just... wow.
So yeah, the Gospel is so powerful it goes beyond human sinfulness and stupidity, and heaps of false doctrines and beliefs.
Believe it or not, I've had quite a bit in my own life.
Brakelite
Active member
@civic @synergy
For an eye witness account of the events that transpired during William Miller's ministry, and the character of the man himself, his motives, and the results, I strongly urge you fellas to read the 18th chapter of The Great Controversy by Ellen White. The chapter is titled, An American Reformer.
It would be far better you have a true account of those events than an uninformed judgement and willingness to condemn an innocent man, and thousands besides who were genuinely converted.
For an eye witness account of the events that transpired during William Miller's ministry, and the character of the man himself, his motives, and the results, I strongly urge you fellas to read the 18th chapter of The Great Controversy by Ellen White. The chapter is titled, An American Reformer.
It would be far better you have a true account of those events than an uninformed judgement and willingness to condemn an innocent man, and thousands besides who were genuinely converted.
civic
Well-known member
Thanks for the recommendation
Brakelite
Active member
No-one has done away with anything that is true. The entrance and approach to the throne room of God had been laid open to all through Christ. We have now boldness to enter directly and make our appeals to God in person. It is the incense that is a symbol of that which we may now experience in reality.
charismaticlady
Active member
Why would you discount Antiochus? It fits to a "T". 67 BC to 60 BC. Antiochus died in 64 BC just after he defiled the temple by sacrificing a pig to Zeus on the altar. The Maccabees cleansed the temple. It was the first of three paradigms. That was the first Jewish revolt. The second was from 66 AD to 73 AD and the temple was destroyed again in the midst of the week, 70 AD. The third and final paradigm will be the Great Tribulation, again concerning national Israel. With everything going on with the Demoncrats and their abominations we have already or are about to step into the GT any day. It all started with Obama who is now behind the scenes controlling Biden. They have no conscience and wouldn't hesitate to stoop to the depths of hell to win the next election like they did the last one.
Brakelite
Active member
@charismaticlady
Hi. Here is the Adventist training behind our identification of the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8, and why we cannot adopt the idea of Antiochus.
I will present this in 3 separate articles, long, but comprehensive.
The following article dwell principally upon the seventh and eighth chapters of the book of Daniel, with a particular focus on identifying the commonly termed “little horn”. The identity of this entity has been the subject of debate and argument for centuries, however, in our day we have been given great light, and we are now able to view history from a perspective unrealised by former Bible students, having the advantage of a more complete panorama of the history of the empires and kingdoms involved. Also, God Himself has promised in the book of Daniel that readers in the latter days would understand the visions.These visions also hold the key to understanding the book of Revelation, for much information and symbolism is repeated in John’s book, along with an enlarged vision which provides the Bible student with a great deal more insight.
A principle of understanding prophecy, particularly those of Daniels is that later prophecies are repeats of earlier ones, but magnified and inclusive of much more detail. With that in mind, we shall begin in chapter 2 with the vision King Nebuchadnezzar had of the great statue, and Daniel’s inspired interpretation of it.
Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
“In the latter days” is an idiomatic phrase meaning ‘in the future’. It is used in different contexts in Deut. 4:30, Gen.49:1, Num.24:14, Isa.2:2, Hos. 3:5, Ezek. 38:16. Most modern versions therefore translate the phrase as “in time to come”, or “in days to come”, or in later days”. From the historicist perspective, it can be concluded that the vision reaches from the time of Daniel and stretches far off into the future to the second advent of Christ symbolised by the stone kingdom when all previous kingdoms are destroyed and never again to be found .
Before we begin to focus on the prophecy itself of Daniel 2, I think now would be a good time to put my plug in for historicism, as opposed to futurism and preterism. John 13:19; Matt. 24:33 and Luke 21:28 provides the precedent and direction we must take to interpreting prophecy. We may look back into history, and it is there we see the rock-solid incontrovertible evidence that gives our faith and hopes a sure foundation. Thus the teachings of Jesus Himself supports a continuous view of prophecy. The church age isn’t a gap inserted in between two separate Jewish ages, nor is it a gap in prophecy. Just as the metals are joined together and the 4th kingdom is still present at the time of the second coming, so does history verify. There are a number of historicist scholars and expositers about, but the better known would the Seventh Day Adventist church, who’s understanding of prophecy to my mind is without equal in modern Christendom.
Were they the first? Did they invent this approach to sustain certain prophetic interpretations that popular theology rejected? No. Most commentators right from the early church recognised the 7 churches of Revelation 2 and 3 as successive phases of Christianity from the time of John to the consummation of all things.
The 7 seals also were recognised as reflecting successive phases of Christianity from John to the second coming. For example, Ambrose, Bishop of Havilburg writing in the 12 century said, “The white horse typifies the earliest state of spiritual gifts and the rider, Christ, with the bow of evangelical doctrine…the red horse is the next state of the church, red with the blood of martyrdom; from Stephen the protomartyr to the martyrs under Diocletian…the black horse depicts the church’s 3rd state, blackened after Constantine’s time with heresies…the pale horse signified the church’s 4th state; coloured with the hue of hypocrisy.” He said this state commenced from the beginning of the 5th century. This historicist view of the seals was the usual view of expositors down through the centuries.
Hi. Here is the Adventist training behind our identification of the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8, and why we cannot adopt the idea of Antiochus.
I will present this in 3 separate articles, long, but comprehensive.
The following article dwell principally upon the seventh and eighth chapters of the book of Daniel, with a particular focus on identifying the commonly termed “little horn”. The identity of this entity has been the subject of debate and argument for centuries, however, in our day we have been given great light, and we are now able to view history from a perspective unrealised by former Bible students, having the advantage of a more complete panorama of the history of the empires and kingdoms involved. Also, God Himself has promised in the book of Daniel that readers in the latter days would understand the visions.These visions also hold the key to understanding the book of Revelation, for much information and symbolism is repeated in John’s book, along with an enlarged vision which provides the Bible student with a great deal more insight.
A principle of understanding prophecy, particularly those of Daniels is that later prophecies are repeats of earlier ones, but magnified and inclusive of much more detail. With that in mind, we shall begin in chapter 2 with the vision King Nebuchadnezzar had of the great statue, and Daniel’s inspired interpretation of it.
Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
“In the latter days” is an idiomatic phrase meaning ‘in the future’. It is used in different contexts in Deut. 4:30, Gen.49:1, Num.24:14, Isa.2:2, Hos. 3:5, Ezek. 38:16. Most modern versions therefore translate the phrase as “in time to come”, or “in days to come”, or in later days”. From the historicist perspective, it can be concluded that the vision reaches from the time of Daniel and stretches far off into the future to the second advent of Christ symbolised by the stone kingdom when all previous kingdoms are destroyed and never again to be found .
Before we begin to focus on the prophecy itself of Daniel 2, I think now would be a good time to put my plug in for historicism, as opposed to futurism and preterism. John 13:19; Matt. 24:33 and Luke 21:28 provides the precedent and direction we must take to interpreting prophecy. We may look back into history, and it is there we see the rock-solid incontrovertible evidence that gives our faith and hopes a sure foundation. Thus the teachings of Jesus Himself supports a continuous view of prophecy. The church age isn’t a gap inserted in between two separate Jewish ages, nor is it a gap in prophecy. Just as the metals are joined together and the 4th kingdom is still present at the time of the second coming, so does history verify. There are a number of historicist scholars and expositers about, but the better known would the Seventh Day Adventist church, who’s understanding of prophecy to my mind is without equal in modern Christendom.
Were they the first? Did they invent this approach to sustain certain prophetic interpretations that popular theology rejected? No. Most commentators right from the early church recognised the 7 churches of Revelation 2 and 3 as successive phases of Christianity from the time of John to the consummation of all things.
The 7 seals also were recognised as reflecting successive phases of Christianity from John to the second coming. For example, Ambrose, Bishop of Havilburg writing in the 12 century said, “The white horse typifies the earliest state of spiritual gifts and the rider, Christ, with the bow of evangelical doctrine…the red horse is the next state of the church, red with the blood of martyrdom; from Stephen the protomartyr to the martyrs under Diocletian…the black horse depicts the church’s 3rd state, blackened after Constantine’s time with heresies…the pale horse signified the church’s 4th state; coloured with the hue of hypocrisy.” He said this state commenced from the beginning of the 5th century. This historicist view of the seals was the usual view of expositors down through the centuries.
Brakelite
Active member
The trumpets also were considered an historical overview of the rise and fall of secular kingdoms from the time of Christ to the future second advent. Scholars such as Daubuz, Mede, Jurieu, along with most all reformation protestants saw the trumpets 1-6 as depicting the desolations and fall of first the western empire of Rome and then the eastern. In 1802 Gulloway, in harmony with many others, viewed the first 4 trumpets as a picture of the Gothic invasions of the west, the 5th and 6th trumpets or the first 2 of the 3 ‘woes’, as depicting the invasions of the Saracens and the Turks in the east.
The prophecies of Daniel can be readily understood by using the historicist approach. Futurism and preterism both leave many unanswered questions, many unfulfilled details, and tend to make prophetic interpretation look more like guesswork and wishful thinking rather than the accurate study and strengthening of faith that it can be.
The image of Daniel 2 sets the foundation for every subsequent vision and prophecy from Daniel to Revelation. What God has set down as His word in Daniel 2 cannot be altered to suit one’s false theories when it comes to studying Revelation. All subsequent prophecies are to be studied on the principle of ‘repeat and enlarge’. That is, once Daniel 2 is understood, any further consideration of later visions must be based on Daniel 2, only with the addition of further detail. Daniel 2 sets the scene, everything else must fit into what Daniel 2 has laid down as the bottom line.
That said, let us settle on what nearly all Bible scholars agree as to what Daniel 2 represents.
Daniel 2:30-45.
The head of gold is clearly identified as the kingdom of Babylon (626-539BC) in verse 38. From history we know that the other 3 kingdoms following Babylon were Media-Persia (539-331BC), Greece (331-168BC) , and Rome (168BC-476AD). Although the Roman empire ruled longer than the other 3 kingdoms put together, it was not succeeded by a fifth world power but was divided up into kingdoms of varying strength, symbolised by the feet of iron and clay, just as the prophecy predicted. These are the nations that make up modern Europe, nations that, to this day, exist as separate national political entities.
The Bible makes it plain that the stone represents Jesus Christ (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 10:4; Luke 20:17,18.) Who at His second advent will destroy all the other kingdoms and establish an everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 7 and 8 compliment one another, and give added impetus and detail to Daniel 2. I will deal with both 7 and 8 together, in order to make it easier to see the parallels.
Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings:….
Here is the first beast representing the first of 4 world empires, Babylon, as also revealed as the head of gold in Daniel 2. Another very sound principle when interpreting scripture, is to take all scripture language literally, unless there exists some good reason for supposing it to be figurative; and all that is figurative is to be interpreted by that which is literal. That the language here is symbolic is evident when considering verse 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
That the intention is to show kingdoms and not just individual kings is also evident by the appearance of beasts. Much as modern nations do today, U.S. the eagle; Russia the bear; N.Z. the Kiwi; Aust. the wallaby.etc. Verses 38 and 39 reveal that the first kingdom is Babylon, which rose to power through war and conquest. When Daniel mentioned in verse 2 the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea, this is symbolic language representing war and strife amongst nations. (Rev.17:15; Isaiah 17:12,13; Jer. 51:1; Jer. 25:32,33.)
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It is to be noted that all the beasts are predatory, in keeping with the above symbolism. And the wings it can be assumed represent speed. (Deut. 28:49; Jer. 4:13; Habakkuk 1:6-9).
The wings were plucked from the lion, thus no longer was it the threat it formerly offered to her enemies. A man’s heart was given to it. Babylon in later years had become timorous, effeminate, and a pleasure seeking society without discipline.
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
Daniel 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Daniel 8:20 identifies the ram as being Medo-Persia, thus the ram and the bear represent the same power. The bear raised itself up on one side – indicating the more prominent role of the Medes at the beginning of their rise to power, the individual kings being Ahasuerus and his son, Darius.This is also represented by the two horns, with one coming up higher last.
Just as silver is inferior to gold, and the bear inferior to the lion, so was Medo-Persia inferior to Babylon in regards to wealth and brilliance of career. However, the area of conquest was greater than Babylon.
The ribs in the bear’s mouth represent the 3 provinces of Babylon that the Medes and Persians conquered: Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon. The ram pushed west, north, and south, precisely where the 3 above provinces were.
Cyrus was the Persian king that rose to prominence represented by the horn that rose up higher. It was Cyrus spoken of and named 150 years previously by Isaiah as the leader that would overthrow Babylon. (There are many parallels with Revelation and the drying up of the Euphrates thus cutting off Babylon’s support in the last days, just as Cyrus did to the literal city. This is spiritual Babylon, and the Euphrates is also figurative for the means of support that the people of the earth withhold (Rev.18)when made aware of her corruption.Rev. 16:12 . As Cyrus came from the east to conquer Babylon, so also will Christ come from the east as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.)
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
The prophecies of Daniel can be readily understood by using the historicist approach. Futurism and preterism both leave many unanswered questions, many unfulfilled details, and tend to make prophetic interpretation look more like guesswork and wishful thinking rather than the accurate study and strengthening of faith that it can be.
The image of Daniel 2 sets the foundation for every subsequent vision and prophecy from Daniel to Revelation. What God has set down as His word in Daniel 2 cannot be altered to suit one’s false theories when it comes to studying Revelation. All subsequent prophecies are to be studied on the principle of ‘repeat and enlarge’. That is, once Daniel 2 is understood, any further consideration of later visions must be based on Daniel 2, only with the addition of further detail. Daniel 2 sets the scene, everything else must fit into what Daniel 2 has laid down as the bottom line.
That said, let us settle on what nearly all Bible scholars agree as to what Daniel 2 represents.
Daniel 2:30-45.
The head of gold is clearly identified as the kingdom of Babylon (626-539BC) in verse 38. From history we know that the other 3 kingdoms following Babylon were Media-Persia (539-331BC), Greece (331-168BC) , and Rome (168BC-476AD). Although the Roman empire ruled longer than the other 3 kingdoms put together, it was not succeeded by a fifth world power but was divided up into kingdoms of varying strength, symbolised by the feet of iron and clay, just as the prophecy predicted. These are the nations that make up modern Europe, nations that, to this day, exist as separate national political entities.
The Bible makes it plain that the stone represents Jesus Christ (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 10:4; Luke 20:17,18.) Who at His second advent will destroy all the other kingdoms and establish an everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 7 and 8 compliment one another, and give added impetus and detail to Daniel 2. I will deal with both 7 and 8 together, in order to make it easier to see the parallels.
Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings:….
Here is the first beast representing the first of 4 world empires, Babylon, as also revealed as the head of gold in Daniel 2. Another very sound principle when interpreting scripture, is to take all scripture language literally, unless there exists some good reason for supposing it to be figurative; and all that is figurative is to be interpreted by that which is literal. That the language here is symbolic is evident when considering verse 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
That the intention is to show kingdoms and not just individual kings is also evident by the appearance of beasts. Much as modern nations do today, U.S. the eagle; Russia the bear; N.Z. the Kiwi; Aust. the wallaby.etc. Verses 38 and 39 reveal that the first kingdom is Babylon, which rose to power through war and conquest. When Daniel mentioned in verse 2 the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea, this is symbolic language representing war and strife amongst nations. (Rev.17:15; Isaiah 17:12,13; Jer. 51:1; Jer. 25:32,33.)
[/i]
It is to be noted that all the beasts are predatory, in keeping with the above symbolism. And the wings it can be assumed represent speed. (Deut. 28:49; Jer. 4:13; Habakkuk 1:6-9).
The wings were plucked from the lion, thus no longer was it the threat it formerly offered to her enemies. A man’s heart was given to it. Babylon in later years had become timorous, effeminate, and a pleasure seeking society without discipline.
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
Daniel 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Daniel 8:20 identifies the ram as being Medo-Persia, thus the ram and the bear represent the same power. The bear raised itself up on one side – indicating the more prominent role of the Medes at the beginning of their rise to power, the individual kings being Ahasuerus and his son, Darius.This is also represented by the two horns, with one coming up higher last.
Just as silver is inferior to gold, and the bear inferior to the lion, so was Medo-Persia inferior to Babylon in regards to wealth and brilliance of career. However, the area of conquest was greater than Babylon.
The ribs in the bear’s mouth represent the 3 provinces of Babylon that the Medes and Persians conquered: Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon. The ram pushed west, north, and south, precisely where the 3 above provinces were.
Cyrus was the Persian king that rose to prominence represented by the horn that rose up higher. It was Cyrus spoken of and named 150 years previously by Isaiah as the leader that would overthrow Babylon. (There are many parallels with Revelation and the drying up of the Euphrates thus cutting off Babylon’s support in the last days, just as Cyrus did to the literal city. This is spiritual Babylon, and the Euphrates is also figurative for the means of support that the people of the earth withhold (Rev.18)when made aware of her corruption.Rev. 16:12 . As Cyrus came from the east to conquer Babylon, so also will Christ come from the east as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.)
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
