unless the falling away comes first

Hello, Frank! Nice to meet you.

This is an interesting interpretation, though I find your last paragraph rather ironic- for as you state your “opinion”, you seem to be “speaking for God” in chastising others for expressing their “opinions” through “scripture cut-outs” as being “the word of God”.

It would seem to me, that the better part of wisdom would remember the adage that “one finger pointing at someone else, means three fingers pointing back at you!”

Just a thought…

Doug
I recall those collages in school, we'd cut out words from magazines to say something. Most of theology is that.

I think that section of my response was in reply to the OP's request for scripture verses, though I did refer to one - the full reasoning was not provided.
 
you have a valid point .but when the real falling away takes place then and only then can the man of sin be revealed .

The real falling away has already occurred.
This is why the "church" has no "Grace of God" as their Salvation theology.
This is why a forum tries to deny the Grace of God, by falsely redefining it as "OSAS", or "license to sin"., or as "well that is not quite what my master John Calvin taught me to think".

Let me show you how to confuse so called "Christians".

Tell them that the Cross of Christ is the Grace of God, is the New Covenant, which is the "Blood Atonement".

Here is what you'll get...

"what is that'?
"dont you know we have to keep the commandments and endure to the end to go to heaven"
"dont you know that you are not to keep the Law, as that is why God saves us".
"just make sure you are water baptized as water washes away your sin".

See, the CROSS is missing, in CHURCH, because the "apostasy" that has happened, has happened.
 
The real falling away has already occurred.
This is why the "church" has no "Grace of God" as their Salvation theology.
This is why a forum tries to deny the Grace of God, by falsely redefining it as "OSAS", or "license to sin"., or as "well that is not quite what my master John Calvin taught me to think".
you keep holding on to calvin
 
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You claim to be a preacher, but you preach nothing that is related to the NT, or the Cross.
Its all cult, cult cult, and more cult, manmade theological pretense.
psst i am not interested in your silliness

The real falling away has already occurred.

the falling away has not took place yet as per what i preach i preach the word o.t n t. all scripture is profitable as per my nonsense your going down a road that needs not travelled , i dont take insults very lightly sooo lets not go there
 
psst i am not interested in your silliness

You teach cult teaching.
You always find me on a forum, and try to pretend you are an authority.
You're not.
Your theology is very self righteous, and its to be avoided, completely.
the falling away has not took place yet

As a matter of fact, people like you who are "Grace-less", are the prime example of the "fallen away".

You're the actual proof, @ezra
 
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description
Subject heading:- 'Unless The Falling Away Comes First'

'That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,

and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself
above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.'

(2Thess. 2:2-4)

Hello @ezra,

I have read some of the responses that you have received: but not all; so if I echo the words of others, I apologize in advance. :)

*To the believers living during the period when this epistle was written, the second advent of the risen Lord was deemed to be imminent. All looked with expectancy for the coming of the Lord. Yet all depended on the nation of Israel's response to God's call to repentance made through the Apostle Peter, in his address to the nation in Acts 3:-

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'

(Act 3:19-21)

The nation did not repent, and time has now passed: but the second advent of Christ is still a living expectation; and the events leading to it, as recorded in Scripture, remain in force for those to whom Paul wrote in Thessalonica, though now, 'asleep in Christ'; who will be resurrected and raised immediately prior to those who are alive and remain at His coming, both will rise to meet the Lord in the air as promised. They will all be gathered together unto Him.

Paul is concerned that the believers in Thessalonica, should not be 'shaken in' their minds, or troubled: for this state of mind plays into the hands of the enemy. It is good to remember this, during these times of war in Israel. To keep our minds stayed upon Christ, and rest assured that our hope in Him is sure, for it is based on the promises of God.

The day of the Lord will not begin until that 'falling away', (forsaking or apostacy) takes place: The word suggests rebellion. The days leading up to the day of the Lord in the O.T. are portrayed as dark and filled with gloom, with a departure from the Lord and the forsaking of Christian standards. This is a picture of today I feel. Even in my lifespan I can see the departure from Christians standards portrayed in many ways, and consider the possibility of all that is prophesied coming to fruition soon, but only God knows that day.

Thank you for receiving my thoughts.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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The day of the Lord will not begin until that 'falling away',

The Trib is about to start.

Iran-Russia, China, are about to turn this world into a fire ball using Terrorists and weapons of mass destruction.

The Devil as a man will come in and "bring peace" to the GLOBE.
Its not a Joke.
This "ukraine war" and this recentl Israeli WAR, that has started, is going to continue , and so, ... get ready.

And also...

The great falling away, is the Church, falling into self righteousness, falling into Galatians 1:8 that is to "fall from Grace".

That is the falling away.

This is why i can go to any forum and talk about Jesus being Salvation, and many will jump up and run and post... "well, you forgot the water".. ."You forgot enduring to the end".. "your forgot keeping the law and Commandments".....

No i didnt forget.
Believe it.

This is why i can go on any "christian" forum, and im on them all for a while.. and i only preach/teach '"Christ Crucified" as "The Gospel", and 98% of the so called "believers" on the Forums, have no idea what im doing..


So, i post this next verse for the great apostasy people.... that is , from Paul, and they look at it, confused. Literally, can't really understand why this verse exists, or why Paul would say that, or why the born again are to have this same mind, when it comes to THEOLOGY and PREACHING.

Why their confusion?? Its is because the "great falling away" from the Grace of God and the "preaching of the Cross", that Is the Grace of God.... has been happening for quite a while now.

Here is the verse.
-
PAUL said.....

For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
 
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The Trib is about to start.

Iran-Russia, China, are about to turn this world into a fire ball using Terrorists and weapons of mass destruction.

The Devil as a man will come in and "bring peace" to the GLOBE.
Its not a Joke.
This "ukraine war" and this recentl Israeli WAR, that has started, is going to continue , and so, ... get ready.

And also...

The great falling away, is the Church, falling into self righteousness, falling into Galatians 1:8 that is to "fall from Grace".

That is the falling away.

This is why i can go to any forum and talk about Jesus being Salvation, and many will jump up and run and post... "well, you forgot the water".. ."You forgot enduring to the end".. "your forgot keeping the law and Commandments".....

No i didnt forget.
Believe it.

This is why i can go on any "christian" forum, and im on them all for a while.. and i only preach/teach '"Christ Crucified" as "The Gospel", and 98% of the so called "believers" on the Forums, have no idea what im doing..

Im doing the same on "Christianity board", and that sites #1 Demonic Cross Hating Devil, who the mods love..... tells me... Jesus is your "whipping boy".

"Whipping boy".

And that insult hurled toward the Lord and against the Graced of God, is allowed on that forum, but what isn't is if "behold is not nice to this devil".

It's amazing really that forums expect darkness and Light to "play nice and be sweet"., as their #1 rule above all others.

So, i post this next verse for the great apostasy people.... that is , from Paul, and they look at it, confused. Literally, can't really understand why this verse exists, or why Paul would say that, or why the born again are to have this same mind, when it comes to THEOLOGY and PREACHING.

Why their confusion?? Its is because the "great falling away" from the Grace of God and the "preaching of the Cross", that Is the Grace of God.... has been happening for quite a while now.

Here is the verse.
-
PAUL said.....

New International Version
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

New Living Translation
For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified.

English Standard Version
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Berean Standard Bible
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Berean Literal Bible
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified.

King James Bible
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

New King James Version
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

New American Standard Bible
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

NASB 1995
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

NASB 1977
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Legacy Standard Bible
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Amplified Bible
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

Christian Standard Bible
I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For I didn’t think it was a good idea to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

American Standard Version
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Neither did I judge myself as knowing anything among you, except Yeshua The Messiah, even him as he was crucified.
Hello @Behold,

Yes, it certainly appears that we are in those days.

'But none of these things move me,
neither count I my life dear unto myself,
so that I might finish my course with joy,
and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus,
to testify
the gospel of the grace of God.
And now, behold, I know that ye all,
among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God,
shall see my face no more.'

(Act 20:24-25)

'Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

That good thing which was committed unto thee
keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest,
that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me
;
of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.'

(2Ti 1:13-15)

The, 'turning away', from the truth began a long time ago didn't it? Even in Paul's own day. 'The gospel of the grace of God', in all it's fulness, appears not to be taught

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
op: unless the 'falling away' comes first?:

Within my Pre-trib 'study' Outline, # 9 is expanded 'for this topic':

1a) Peace With God!
1b) Which Bible version should I use?
2) Bible study Rules
3) Three 'ages' Rightly Divided
4) Which Gospel 'makes way' for which gospel?
5) Great Tribulation, Or: tribulations/Great Grace Departure?
6) Departure 'expectations'
7) Heavenly Uplook for the Body Of Christ
8) Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching For 'Blessed Hope' (or 'signs'?)
-----------------------------
(9) God's Removal Of His Body Of Christ!:

”...He who withholdeth/hindereth Until Taken Out of the way.​
And Then shall that Wicked be revealed!...” (2Th 2:7-8):​

First, Carefully Note The 'Timing Words' Of God In This Passage! Amen?
Next:

Many are having Great difficulty interpreting 'The falling away
( greek apostasia )' In 2 Thessalonians 2:3! Perchance, this may help?:

What is 'The Departure' Truth That God Gave Paul in This Passage?

Is it The departure "from the faith," as some teach? but, Wait! Did we not
Already have that, 2000 Years ago?:

"All Asia turned Away From Paul!" (2 Timothy 1:15)​

In addition, God Revealed To Paul, this Plain And Clear Statement, For:

our Last Days!:​

"Now The Spirit Speaketh Expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart​
from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils!"​
(1 Timothy 4:1)​

So, we humbly And kindly ask: Why are Many Still looking for "The Great
Apostasy ( interpretation of falling away )" and the man of sin, son of Perdition?
Now, let us prayerfully ask: God's Question, Through His Grace apostle, Paul!:

"What Saith The Scripture?":​

(A) In 1 Timothy 4:1, that departure { greek aphestemi } is "from the faith!"
Compare:​

Hebrews 3:12: Departing { same greek aphestemi! ) Is "From The Living God!"​
So, with a Different Original word, The above Departure { apostasia } 'from​
the faith' would be incorrect, Correct?​
(B) Double Confirmation For [ simply ] 'The Departure,' Is:

What God Revealed To Paul to teach the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians, Was​
"The Departure" in Chapter 4:13-18, And, Also, In God's Immediate Context Here:​

"Now we beseech you, brethren, By The Coming Of our Lord Jesus Christ, And​
by our { Departure } Gathering together Unto Him!..." (2 Thessalonians 2:1)​
Correct?​

(C) Triple Scriptural Confirmation For Great Grace "Departure From the earth!"
Is Again Also In God's Immediate 'Context' Itself:​

"he, the righteous "withholder/restrainer" Is Removed First!​
(2 Thessalonians 2:6-8a)​
And:​
... ↓ Mystery ↓
The Grace Gospel Is Ended, By God, Making Way For His Other prophetic kingdom gospel.​
( ↑ Romans - Philemon ↑) ... { ask for Part 4 of this study } ...( ↑ Mat 24:14; Rev 14:6 ↑)​
Amen?​
The "man of sin / son of perdition" Cannot be revealed Until The Church [ he ],​
the "righteous restrainer" is Removed Away From the earth! First! (2 Th 2:3, 6-8a!),​
Then begins The [ prophesied ] Time Of Jacob's ( Israel's ) Trouble!"​
Amen?​
(D) Quadruple Confirmation Is Comparing This One difficult/obscure verse
with The Twenty Seven Plain And Clear Passages About The Body Of Christ!:​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching for our Blessed Hope!"​
( Romans 8:18, 19, 23, 25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18;​
Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:2, 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:5-11;​
2 Thessalonians 3:5; Titus 2:13 )​
{ All Are Clearly e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d in Part 8 of this study, ask If review is needed? },​
q: Are we to be "looking for the Wicked one," First? or:​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching for The 'Holy One':
The Lord Jesus Christ, First?​
Thus, It Is Very Plain And Clear, According To God's Precious Word Of Truth,​
{ Left In 'God's Contexts' Amen? }, That!:​
The Reliable Scripture ( Rule # 6 ) Interpreting Itself, for "The falling away" Is:​
...Of The Body Of Christ { Removing he, who "hindereth/withholdeth" },​
"Away From the earth!" Correct?​
+ ---------------
The Timing belief matters, Because It Determines how one 'Prepares!' Amen?:

(E) Which is Better?: men instructing watchmen to look for the antichrist, And
preparing by 'Selfishly Hoarding Up' seven years of food for famine, to​
"endure to the end of Great Tribulation," thus, "living By sight [ 'signs' ]"?​
Or:​
Obeying God, Under His Amazing Grace, "walking By faith, Not by sight" (2Co 5:7)​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching For [ our Blessed Hope! ]"​
The Lord Jesus Christ!...​
...While loving our neighbor, And Selflessly working to use God's { Provided }​
money to 'Give to them in need,' while performing All "good works" For God,​
in Order To Be:​
►►► Prepared For Judgment In Heaven! ◄◄◄​
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15! cp 1 Corinthians 4:12; Ephesians 4:28;​
1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; Philippians 4:19; 2 Corinthians 9:8;​
Romans 12:20) Amen?​

(F) Finally, If Any Dear Reader Still 'believes' one Will See anti-christ
First, and Enter Into Great Tribulation, "under his { Satan's } governmental
reign," then does one not have The Following Scriptural Dilemma?​
Please Prayerfully/Carefully Consider This:​
Out-Of-Place Problem! From God And His Precious Word!:​
All 'members' of The Body Of Christ Are Instructed, By God, To:​
"be subject to governmental authorities, And pray For them!"​
(Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1; 1 Timothy 2:1-4).​
How does that then 'work out' ( In Disobedience? ), for the Body Of Christ​
'members,' who believe they Will Go Into the Great Tribulation, as "the​
government [ In "The Time of Jacob's ( Israel's ) Trouble" ] Will Be
Under The Control" Of Satan and the Beast! (Revelation 13:4)?​
And, in addition, there are Also 'Post Departure Deceptions'​
( # 16, If one 'wishes to review' - just ask... )​

"Prove All things; hold fast That Which Is Good!" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)​
-----------------------------------
10) The Day Of Christ vs Day Of The Lord vs Day Of God
11) Confidence in death/resurrection Or in living/glorification
12) No 'warning' Imminence
13) Two 'Trumps of God' In The Age of Grace
14) Meeting Christ 'in the air'
15) Preparation for 'Judgment Of The Entire Body Of Christ'
16) Post Departure Deceptions

[ other expansions 'available upon request'... ], so, for now:

The Final Conclusion of study of all The Scriptures found in the above 16 parts:

Amen...

ps. If one Precious reader has No 'Peace With God', please prayerfully
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ see below ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
 
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The, 'turning away', from the truth began a long time ago didn't it?
it did and part of it is happening at this time. as per THE falling away the final has yet to be /fulfilled

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. the man of sin revealed

Bible prophecy is hard to pin except for Jesus taking His Church out of the way


The day of the Lord will not begin until that 'falling away', (forsaking or apostacy) takes place: The word suggests rebellion. The days leading up to the day of the Lord in the O.T. are portrayed as dark and filled with gloom, with a departure from the Lord and the forsaking of Christian standards. This is a picture of today I feel. Even in my lifespan I can see the departure from Christians standards portrayed in many ways, and consider the possibility of all that is prophesied coming to fruition soon, but only God knows that day.

agree
 
Subject Heading:- 'Unless The Falling Away Comes First'

'That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth Himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
'

(2 Thess 2:2-7)

Hello again,

Don't you wish you had heard what Paul had told the Thessalonians when he was 'yet with them'? Our understanding of these words would have been so much better.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello @Behold,



The, 'turning away', from the truth began a long time ago didn't it? Even in Paul's own day. 'The gospel of the grace of God', in all it's fulness, appears not to be taught

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hey Chris,

Yes.

Even in Paul's day, you had this same "OSAS" "spin" that was the Devil's ploy to use a person's self righteousness against them, so that the Grace of God, ... in THEIR Hearing... became subverted as "Paul is teaching that Grace gives us a license to live like the DEVIL".

See that?

That is Satan, twisting God's Grace that is a Free Gift, that does free you from sin, that does present you always as forgiven....into..."they are teaching we can do anything we want now".

So, 2000 yrs later, God's Grace, as this Gift of Righteousness, is twisted by the Devil's owned into...."cheap grace" "greasy grace". "license to sin".

They said it to Paul.
And if you preach or teach Salvation is God's GIFT......... John 3:16.... you will have the Devil's deceived tell you..."ah that is that OSAS" stuff.
 
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description
Ok, take Judas the disciple, the son of perdition. He’s the clearest example of apostasy in the Bible. He was among Jesus’ inner circle. He had greater access to Christ than almost any other person in his day—walking and talking with the Savior, witnessing the miracles, and watching lives be transformed. Yet Judas still fell away.

But the core issue isn’t that people are falling away from church, or even falling away from faith. We’re talking about falling away from Jesus Himself. We’re talking about branches that cut themselves off from the vine. These are people who have—these words are stark—“trampled the Son of God underfoot . . . treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and . . . insulted the Spirit of grace”

How much worse (sterner and heavier) punishment do you suppose he will be judged to deserve who has spurned and [thus] trampled underfoot the Son of God, and who has considered the covenant blood by which he was consecrated common and unhallowed, thus profaning it and insulting and outraging the [Holy] Spirit [Who imparts] grace (the unmerited favor and blessing of God)? Heb 10:29
 
op: unless the 'falling away' comes first?:

Within my Pre-trib 'study' Outline, # 9 is expanded 'for this topic':

1a) Peace With God!
1b) Which Bible version should I use?
2) Bible study Rules
3) Three 'ages' Rightly Divided
4) Which Gospel 'makes way' for which gospel?
5) Great Tribulation, Or: tribulations/Great Grace Departure?
6) Departure 'expectations'
7) Heavenly Uplook for the Body Of Christ
8) Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching For 'Blessed Hope' (or 'signs'?)
-----------------------------
(9) God's Removal Of His Body Of Christ!:

”...He who withholdeth/hindereth Until Taken Out of the way.​
And Then shall that Wicked be revealed!...” (2Th 2:7-8):​

First, Carefully Note The 'Timing Words' Of God In This Passage! Amen?
Next:

Many are having Great difficulty interpreting 'The falling away
( greek apostasia )' In 2 Thessalonians 2:3! Perchance, this may help?:

What is 'The Departure' Truth That God Gave Paul in This Passage?

Is it The departure "from the faith," as some teach? but, Wait! Did we not
Already have that, 2000 Years ago?:

"All Asia turned Away From Paul!" (2 Timothy 1:15)​

In addition, God Revealed To Paul, this Plain And Clear Statement, For:

our Last Days!:​

"Now The Spirit Speaketh Expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart​
from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils!"​
(1 Timothy 4:1)​

So, we humbly And kindly ask: Why are Many Still looking for "The Great
Apostasy ( interpretation of falling away )" and the man of sin, son of Perdition?
Now, let us prayerfully ask: God's Question, Through His Grace apostle, Paul!:

"What Saith The Scripture?":​

(A) In 1 Timothy 4:1, that departure { greek aphestemi } is "from the faith!"
Compare:​

Hebrews 3:12: Departing { same greek aphestemi! ) Is "From The Living God!"​
So, with a Different Original word, The above Departure { apostasia } 'from​
the faith' would be incorrect, Correct?​
(B) Double Confirmation For [ simply ] 'The Departure,' Is:

What God Revealed To Paul to teach the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians, Was​
"The Departure" in Chapter 4:13-18, And, Also, In God's Immediate Context Here:​

"Now we beseech you, brethren, By The Coming Of our Lord Jesus Christ, And​
by our { Departure } Gathering together Unto Him!..." (2 Thessalonians 2:1)​
Correct?​

(C) Triple Scriptural Confirmation For Great Grace "Departure From the earth!"
Is Again Also In God's Immediate 'Context' Itself:​

"he, the righteous "withholder/restrainer" Is Removed First!​
(2 Thessalonians 2:6-8a)​
And:​
... ↓ Mystery ↓
The Grace Gospel Is Ended, By God, Making Way For His Other prophetic kingdom gospel.​
( ↑ Romans - Philemon ↑) ... { ask for Part 4 of this study } ...( ↑ Mat 24:14; Rev 14:6 ↑)​
Amen?​
The "man of sin / son of perdition" Cannot be revealed Until The Church [ he ],​
the "righteous restrainer" is Removed Away From the earth! First! (2 Th 2:3, 6-8a!),​
Then begins The [ prophesied ] Time Of Jacob's ( Israel's ) Trouble!"​
Amen?​
(D) Quadruple Confirmation Is Comparing This One difficult/obscure verse
with The Twenty Seven Plain And Clear Passages About The Body Of Christ!:​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching for our Blessed Hope!"​
( Romans 8:18, 19, 23, 25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18;​
Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:2, 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:5-11;​
2 Thessalonians 3:5; Titus 2:13 )​
{ All Are Clearly e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d in Part 8 of this study, ask If review is needed? },​
q: Are we to be "looking for the Wicked one," First? or:​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching for The 'Holy One':
The Lord Jesus Christ, First?​
Thus, It Is Very Plain And Clear, According To God's Precious Word Of Truth,​
{ Left In 'God's Contexts' Amen? }, That!:​
The Reliable Scripture ( Rule # 6 ) Interpreting Itself, for "The falling away" Is:​
...Of The Body Of Christ { Removing he, who "hindereth/withholdeth" },​
"Away From the earth!" Correct?​
+ ---------------
The Timing belief matters, Because It Determines how one 'Prepares!' Amen?:

(E) Which is Better?: men instructing watchmen to look for the antichrist, And
preparing by 'Selfishly Hoarding Up' seven years of food for famine, to​
"endure to the end of Great Tribulation," thus, "living By sight [ 'signs' ]"?​
Or:​
Obeying God, Under His Amazing Grace, "walking By faith, Not by sight" (2Co 5:7)​
"Looking, Patiently waiting, and watching For [ our Blessed Hope! ]"​
The Lord Jesus Christ!...​
...While loving our neighbor, And Selflessly working to use God's { Provided }​
money to 'Give to them in need,' while performing All "good works" For God,​
in Order To Be:​
►►► Prepared For Judgment In Heaven! ◄◄◄​
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15! cp 1 Corinthians 4:12; Ephesians 4:28;​
1 Thessalonians 4:11-12; Philippians 4:19; 2 Corinthians 9:8;​
Romans 12:20) Amen?​

(F) Finally, If Any Dear Reader Still 'believes' one Will See anti-christ
First, and Enter Into Great Tribulation, "under his { Satan's } governmental
reign," then does one not have The Following Scriptural Dilemma?​
Please Prayerfully/Carefully Consider This:​
Out-Of-Place Problem! From God And His Precious Word!:​
All 'members' of The Body Of Christ Are Instructed, By God, To:​
"be subject to governmental authorities, And pray For them!"​
(Romans 13:1-7; Titus 3:1; 1 Timothy 2:1-4).​
How does that then 'work out' ( In Disobedience? ), for the Body Of Christ​
'members,' who believe they Will Go Into the Great Tribulation, as "the​
government [ In "The Time of Jacob's ( Israel's ) Trouble" ] Will Be
Under The Control" Of Satan and the Beast! (Revelation 13:4)?​
And, in addition, there are Also 'Post Departure Deceptions'​
( # 16, If one 'wishes to review' - just ask... )​

"Prove All things; hold fast That Which Is Good!" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)​
-----------------------------------
10) The Day Of Christ vs Day Of The Lord vs Day Of God
11) Confidence in death/resurrection Or in living/glorification
12) No 'warning' Imminence
13) Two 'Trumps of God' In The Age of Grace
14) Meeting Christ 'in the air'
15) Preparation for 'Judgment Of The Entire Body Of Christ'
16) Post Departure Deceptions

[ other expansions 'available upon request'... ], so, for now:

The Final Conclusion of study of all The Scriptures found in the above 16 parts:

Amen...

ps. If one Precious reader has No 'Peace With God', please prayerfully
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ see below ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
you have written a very interesting post i like how you outlined it.. i will say this as i have always stated about the end time we dont know the hour or day of his return. i am not a big signs and wonder person as Jesus said no sign would be given but as Jonah and the great fish./ whale . i am pretty much pre trib from everything i have read. see as we all know in the book of REV. we have 3 parts past present future in some place past has too place parts of math 24 took place in 70 a.d. . how ever part of math 24 is future Christ has not returned yet,

i also know there are people taking the war Israel has declared on Hamas are linking tis towards the end. maybe yes maybe no were told of wars and rumors of wars but the end is not yet . few scriptures farther it reads these are the beginning of sorrows . i do not find where the antichrist the man of sin has been revealed .. along with the Church is still here. ..i will say this last paragraph i feel very strong on.

i don't make prophecy predictions I let the Bible speak for it self as it is our survival manual . i have also seen it said pretrib believers will be deceived . this one will not anything is possible all this is in God timing. you feel free to post your material . Me i fail to see going through the great tribulation . when he pours his wrath out.. another thing i stand on.
 
you have written a very interesting post i like how you outlined it..
Thanks for the kind and encouraging words...
i am not a big signs and wonder person
Excellent, as Under Grace, God Has For us:

"...we walk by faith, not by sight..." (2 Corinthians 5:7)​
you feel free to post your material . Me i fail to see going through the great tribulation
Thanks, both you and I agree, clarified by:

Part 5 Great Grace Departure!:

Great Tribulation? Or tribulations / Great Grace Departure!:

The Body Of Christ, All who Are Washed In The All-Sufficient BLOOD Of Christ,
will All have 'tribulation', But Not Great Tribulation! God's Guarantee!:

Great Tribulation For Israel ( RDF ) tribulations For The Body Of Christ!

Sample Of Rightly Dividing God's Word Of Truth:

Grace And Peace To All Dear Readers. Due to Much Confusion, we prefer
"The Simplicity Of Christ":​

"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a workman that needeth Not​
To Be Ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2 : 15)​

Note: Only One (1) of these (2) Is "Directly" For/To us Today:

Leaders/Numbers in God's Two Different Programs:

(1) Representative apostles + number! For:

God’s Prophecy / Covenants / Law Program, God's Purpose From
"the foundation of the world!" (Matthew 25:34):

►► Under prophecy = "faith + works" = salvation (Matthew, Mark, Luke, James) ◄◄
+
►►► Great Tribulation / Wrath For Israel, in The Time of Jacob's Trouble!
(Daniel, Matthew, Revelation) ◄◄◄

God’s Complete Number represents Twelve tribes of Israel, Twelve apostles
who will rule in the Prophesied Kingdom With Christ, on Twelve thrones
(Genesis 49:28; Isaiah 9:7, 32:1; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30; James 1:1)

Note: All Diligent students of Scripture should Already know that All of God's Promises
To Israel, Are For The earth, correct? Made Known "since the beginning of the world!"
(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21)

Prophecy

[ RDF ] Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Mystery

Never
Made Known Before Paul (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9),
God’s Revelation Of Grace In The Mystery ( Heavenly Program! ), God's Purpose
Before "the foundation of the world!":

(2) Representative apostle + number! For:

►►►► Under Grace = faith Apart From All works = God's Eternal Salvation!
(Ephesians 2:4-5, 8-9; 2 Timothy 2:19 cp Many Others! ) ◄◄◄◄
+
Not "Great Tribulation { Only For Israel! }", but [ for 2000 years now... ]:

►►► "tribulations, And Also infirmities, weaknesses, distress, trouble, afflictions,
reproach, suffering, And Persecution!" For The Church, His Body, During The "Age Of Grace!"
( Romans through Philemon! ) Also, see Grace Word For our Infirmities! ◄◄◄

Paul, One individual apostle, Both Roman and Hebrew, represents reconciliation, by Grace,
of Both Jew and Gentile, as Individuals, Spiritually Baptized ( And United! ) Into One Body
(Ephesians 2:15), In Heaven, ...

... [ By The One Deadly, But Amazingly Wonderful Cross ] Of Christ, The Risen And Glorified
Lord and Saviour, The One And Only Head Of His Church! (Acts 22:27-28; Philippians 3:5;
1 Corinthians 12:13 Ephesians 2:11-16, 4:1-6, 5:30)

Note The Contrast!: We should see That ALL of God's Promises To His Body, Today, Are:

Heavenly, correct? He Could "Catch us Up, To Go There, At Any Moment", Correct?

So, please Do Be Ready For Judgment There! (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

Praise His Precious And Holy Name, Amen.

ps. Prep help for Judgment?:
... ... ...... ..........
 
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Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description

"Falling away" can accurately be translated ...' departure.' = The Rapture.

Many miss that.


My Pastor was a full time Greek and Hebrew scholar,.
He taught faithfully six nights a week to his congregation.
He was always studying daily to teach more and more...

The following is from notes about 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

3-~~ Let no one [thoroughly]
deceive you [exapatao]
{Aorist active subjunctive - a prohibitive subjunctive
against being totally deceived}
"by any means" [kata medeis tropos]
[idiom meaning "according to THEIR norms or standards"]
for . . . [that day shall not come]
except if [ean me]
there first comes [erchomai]
"the departure" [apostasia - the Rapture of the Church]
{removal of the Church then the Tribulation will begin}
and the man of lawlessness/sin [anthropos hamartia]
shall then begin to receive revealing . . .
the "adult son" [huios]
of perdition/destruction/ruin [apoleia] .

Finally... something that makes sense!
For if it meant a great apostasy? That has been ongoing for centuries.

apostasia actually means a departure.


Verification found here!
https://backtobasicsradio.com/falling-away/

grace and peace ..................
 
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Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description
Personally I don't pay any attention to ANY OF IT. When HE comes for me, then I'll GO, and let the "Eschatological fantasies" take care of themselves.
 
Personally I don't pay any attention to ANY OF IT. When HE comes for me, then I'll GO, and let the "Eschatological fantasies" take care of themselves.

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to prove something or win points; what do you think Christ meant by this?

"And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" (Mk. 13:37 NKJ)
 
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