unless the falling away comes first

[Ezra]

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description

 

[TibiasDad]

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description

2Thess 2:4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

This is the event that publicly reveals the antichrist. This is a specific event that necessarily must happen before the Lord returns.

The characteristics described in 1Tim 4:1-5 are a generalized description, but 2Thess 2 is a very specific description for the church to be aware of and watch for.

The falling away will be those religious people that will fall away from the faith due to the civil and social pressures placed upon the church. (Rev 13:7-10, 15-17)


Doug

 

[civic]

2Thess 2:4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

This is the event that publicly reveals the antichrist. This is a specific event that necessarily must happen before the Lord returns.

The characteristics described in 1Tim 4:1-5 are a generalized description, but 2Thess 2 is a very specific description for the church to be aware of and watch for.

The falling away will be those religious people that will fall away from the faith due to the civil and social pressures placed upon the church. (Rev 13:7-10, 15-17)


Doug

Nice summary

 

[TibiasDad]

Nice summary

Thank you, I try to get to the point.

Doug

 

[Ezra]

2Thess 2:4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

This is the event that publicly reveals the antichrist. This is a specific event that necessarily must happen before the Lord returns.

The characteristics described in 1Tim 4:1-5 are a generalized description, but 2Thess 2 is a very specific description for the church to be aware of and watch for.

The falling away will be those religious people that will fall away from the faith due to the civil and social pressures placed upon the church. (Rev 13:7-10, 15-17)


Doug

the falling away happens before the the man of sin is revealed

 

[TibiasDad]

the falling away happens before the the man of sin is revealed

2 Thess 2:1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

This speaks of the return of Christ and the rapturing of his church. The “falling away”or rebellion mentioned here, I think, is a societal construct, where the world deserts the churches precepts (not unlike what we are beginning to see in our society today) and precipitates the rise of the antichrist.

Again, the church is still earthbound when the Beasts take control of the world in Rev 13, and he is given power over the church and will conquer it. (In my mind, this is God’s method of weeding out the true believers, and those who bow to the pressure are the apostates who forsake the Lord.) That is the point in which the “coming of the Lord and our being gathered together” may be expected!


Doug

 

[Ezra]

Again, the church is still earthbound when the Beasts take control of the world in Rev 13, and he is given power over the church and will conquer it. (In my mind, this is God’s method of weeding out the true believers, and those who bow to the pressure are the apostates who forsake the Lord.) That is the point in which the “coming of the Lord and our being gathered together” may be expected!

i dont see the church here when the antichrist takes over. paul calls it the mystery of iniquity then speaks of He who let once the church is out then the antichrist will be revealed i just dont see rev 13 in 2 thess at this time

 

[Ezra]

The falling away will be those religious people that will fall away

what or who do you consider these religious people.. i understand the context paul writes of.. its the who is of the falling away ?

 

[Behold]

Here is what i teach my Students.

So, reader put it in your "theology file" with the rest, and see how it manifests.

First of all, the world is not falling away from anything.
Its not of God, so, what would it "fall away" from?
This world is under the control of "the god of this world', so, what are unbelievers going to fall from, when they are owned by the Devil?
If there was a great falling away of unbelievers, then that would be the world turning to Christ.
Not going to happen.

So, here is the great falling away.
Its not the rapture, as that is a "catching away", and a "going up", not a falling away from....

See that?

Here is the great falling away.

Its a falling away from The Gospel of the Grace of God.
Its an end time "church" that has lost the truth regarding "justification by faith"...
The GRACE of God, has been hidden, its been subverted, its been removed... its been "fallen away from"....

Just like you "fall from Grace".. as a person.

This is what has happened to the body of Christ, in these end times.
Its "fallen away" from the True Gospel, that is the "Grace of God."= "Paul's Gospel.

So, Reader, put that "in there" and see if the Holy Spirit, flips on the Light switch.

 

[Ezra]

Here is what i teach my Students.

So, reader put it in your "theology file" with the rest, and see how it manifests.

First of all, the world is not falling away from anything.
Its not of God, so, what would it "fall away" from?
This world is under the control of "the god of this world', so, what are unbelievers going to fall from, when they are owned by the Devil?
If there was a great falling away of unbelievers, then that would be the world turning to Christ.
Not going to happen.

So, here is the great falling away.
Its not the rapture, as that is a "catching away", and a "going up", not a falling away from....

See that?

Here is the great falling away.

Its a falling away from The Gospel of the Grace of God.
Its an end time "church" that has lost the truth regarding "justification by faith"...
The GRACE of God, has been hidden, its been subverted, its been removed... its been "fallen away from"....

Just like you "fall from Grace".. as a person.

This is what has happened to the body of Christ, in these end times.
Its "fallen away" from the True Gospel, that is the "Grace of God."= "Paul's Gospel.

So, Reader, put that "in there" and see if the Holy Spirit, flips on the Light switch.

you have a valid point .but when the real falling away takes place then and only then can the man of sin be revealed . the antichrist is alive and working.. john tells us there are many antichrist. but the false prophet teacher will come out when the Church is gone, only he who will let

 

[jeremiah1five]

The falling away is already upon us. Has been since the destruction of the Temple.
Israel falls away and Gentiles rise up.
When the Times of the Gentiles ends - and it will end - what will Gentile Christians do when they see/sense God turning His full attention back to Israel and Gentiles understand God used them to make Israel jealous?
They will spite Israel. They will hate Israel.
Just like Gentile Christians do now.
The high and mighty Gentile Christians who say they are Jews (Abraham's seed because they are Christ's) but are not, Jesus says, are of the assembly (synagogue) of Satan (Rev. 2:9.)
They might even be caught in the Delusion God will send upon the world and join antichrist against Israel.
Might.

 

[TibiasDad]

i dont see the church here when the antichrist takes over. paul calls it the mystery of iniquity then speaks of He who let once the church is out then the antichrist will be revealed i just dont see rev 13 in 2 thess at this time

Rev 13:5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

9Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10“If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”
This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.
15The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Ezra, please note the bolder sections, and particularly the bolded red ones, for they clearly place the church at the whim of the second beast and the image of the first beast.

The beast is

1. given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.
2. [to] cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
3. (Thus) If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword they will be killed.”
4. (Therefore) This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

Why? Because the church is still on earth at this point in time, and the whole world is under the control of the beast,including the church. Those who do not worship him or his image or take his mark will suffer, be imprisoned or die for their refusal to obey his demands.

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

Doug

 

[Ezra]

? Because the church is still on earth at this point in time,

i disagree the Church is no longer mentioned or found after chapter 3 we have not been appointed to wrath but obtain salvation . i have noted the Bold sections the restrainer ( H.S.) will not be here when the man of sin is revealed . the spirit lives in us . i am not saying we wont go through some things .but the reign of the anti Christ No

 

[TibiasDad]

i disagree the Church is no longer mentioned or found after chapter 3 we have not been appointed to wrath but obtain salvation . i have noted the Bold sections the restrainer ( H.S.) will not be here when the man of sin is revealed . the spirit lives in us . i am not saying we wont go through some things .but the reign of the anti Christ No

It’s a free country, ezra, (at least for now) and I hope you’re right, but as an old Nazarene theologian once said, “I pray for premillennial, and prepare for postmillennial!” Why would the saints be called to “patient endurance and faithfulness” if they are not here?

Doug

 

[civic]

It’s a free country, ezra, (at least for now) and I hope you’re right, but as an old Nazarene theologian once said, “I pray for premillennial, and prepare for postmillennial!” Why would the saints be called to “patient endurance and faithfulness” if they are not here?

Doug

Yes I will eat post toasties for breakfast during the tribulation if I'm not removed before it begins. I don't like them now or believe in them.

 

[Ezra]

It’s a free country, ezra, (at least for now) and I hope you’re right, but as an old Nazarene theologian once said, “I pray for premillennial, and prepare for postmillennial!” Why would the saints be called to “patient endurance and faithfulness” if they are not here?

Doug

i do hold for the most of pre trib ..but ultimately its all in his hands his timeframe. this post was not so much the intent the way it ended a OLD time preacher man use to say. one thing about it were one day closer today than we was yesterday . he is use to say eh believed in the
pan millennial. live your life for Christ it will all pan out.

i am sure there are prophecy people making end time predictions with Israel at war. there fixing to some major destruction. they are are prideful nation . they will never be taken alive in fact they will scorch the enemy like they never have seen . fact remains the end is near i dont have to be %100 correct on end times.. just right with God.

Why would the saints be called to “patient endurance and faithfulness” if they are not here?

because the Christian life is all bout the 3 listed . paul wrote we will reap in due season if we faint not.. ( dont lose heart ) i tell you for a surety that trying to build back a church that once thrived as a true Church. but in the past had some leadership that simply did not pan out... the Church closed God laid it on my heart to reopen . i been at this Church for 3 years gained some ground lost some ground. .. we are told to be steadfast unmovable abounding in the work of the Lord. as much as your labor is not in vain.. like the military vets of of Vietnam and ww 2 that was in the war. i have my stories of ministry work and thus

patient endurance and faithfulness is much needed not Just for endtimes

 

[TibiasDad]

because the Christian life is all bout the 3 listed . paul wrote we will reap in due season if we faint not.. ( dont lose heart ) i tell you for a surety that trying to build back a church that once thrived as a true Church. but in the past had some leadership that simply did not pan out... the Church closed God laid it on my heart to reopen . i been at this Church for 3 years gained some ground lost some ground. .. we are told to be steadfast unmovable abounding in the work of the Lord. as much as your labor is not in vain.. like the military vets of of Vietnam and ww 2 that was in the war. i have my stories of ministry work and thus

If the church isn’t there, there is nothing for which to persevere or to which to remain faithful; you have arrived!

Your task is to identify who “God’s holy people” are who are being conquered!

Doug

 

[Azriel]

With what's going on in Israel I think now is the time to study up on in times. I'll have to dust off all my books on In times prophecy.

Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God”. As you read these words, the Lord Jesus Christ is seated in the heavens at the right hand of the Almighty Father. But when the right moment comes, Jesus will initiate the Rapture by literally and physically rising from the throne, stepping into the corridors of light, and actually descending into the atmosphere of planet earth from which He rose into the heavens over the Mount of Olives two thousand years ago. It is not the angels or the Holy Spirit, but the Lord Himself who is coming to draw believers into the heavens in the Rapture.

David Jeremiah, The Prophecy Answer Book

 

[Ezra]

If the church isn’t there, there is nothing for which to persevere or to which to remain faithful; you have arrived!

Your task is to identify who “God’s holy people” are who are being conquered!

Doug

HE DONT SEND STRONG DELISOUNS to the saved which is God who sends them.. which is after the man of sin is revealed 2nd thess chapter 2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know " what withholdeth " that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. { he is the Holy spirit the restrainer }

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Ezra]

With what's going on in Israel I think now is the time to study up on in times. I'll have to dust off all my books on In times prophecy.

Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God”. As you read these words, the Lord Jesus Christ is seated in the heavens at the right hand of the Almighty Father. But when the right moment comes, Jesus will initiate the Rapture by literally and physically rising from the throne, stepping into the corridors of light, and actually descending into the atmosphere of planet earth from which He rose into the heavens over the Mount of Olives two thousand years ago. It is not the angels or the Holy Spirit, but the Lord Himself who is coming to draw believers into the heavens in the Rapture.

David Jeremiah, The Prophecy Answer Book

the conditions are very close the 2nd coming is the next event