unless the falling away comes first

I found this.

“And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins’” (Rom. 11:26–27).

There are still two pivotal prophecies concerning Israel that have not yet been fulfilled: Israel does not yet occupy all the land originally promised to it, and its people have not yet turned to Christ. The numerous prophecies of Israel’s return to its homeland were explicitly fulfilled in 1948 when Israel began to be restored to its land. This gives us assurance that full restoration is on the horizon and the prophecies concerning Israel’s return to God will also be fulfilled.

As we wait for the fulfillment of these prophecies, Israel continues to grow as a nation. Against all odds, the people of Israel lead the Middle East in productivity, wealth, order, freedom, and military power. Yet as these assets increase, the nation becomes more and more isolated, continually terrorized by the murderous hostility of its surrounding neighbors.

The most dramatic events lie ahead of us. Israel today is an island of less than nine million immigrants surrounded by a sea of three hundred million enemies, many of them eager to wipe the tiny nation off the map. From a purely human point of view, it would seem inevitable that, sooner or later, Israel will be destroyed. Indeed, Israel has been attacked over and over since its founding, sometimes in all-out wars and incessantly by terrorists. The Jewish people have survived by remaining vigilant, but they long for peace. According to the Bible, a future leader will fulfill this longing by brokering a peace deal with Israel’s enemies. But Scripture also tells us that this peace plan will be broken, and Israel will be attacked once again, this time as never before. Countless armies will amass against the boxed-in nation, leaving it with no human hope of victory. Only Christ’s return, His judgment, and His reign will finally bring true peace to Israel.


The Book of Signs: 31 Undeniable Prophecies of the Apocalypse
 
i mentioned this in the morning message i dont see all Israel saved as that would be universalism.. i certainly cant full comprehend that scripture,, but not all in Israel is true Israel
I hear you that's why I'm going to keep studying it. I'm thinking it may have something to do with Covenants. There's so many things to study out in end time theology. Like the rebuilding of the temple and on and on and on.
 
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i mentioned this in the morning message i dont see all Israel saved as that would be universalism.. i certainly cant full comprehend that scripture,, but not all in Israel is true Israel
If Paul says, "All Israel shall be saved" then "All Israel shall be saved." That's not universalism for it only applies to a certain group of people, specifically, a people in Covenant with God and God keeps ALL His Covenant Promises.
The traditional, erroneous belief of universalism says that all humans will be saved, universally.
When God called to Abraham, Abraham responded. God made covenant with Abraham and his seed. That encompasses Abraham and his seed. There is no requirement of faith where the covenant is mentioned. There is even no mention of Gentiles, but Gentiles look for ways to connect them to Abraham, but Gentiles do not come from his seed nor are Gentiles mentioned in the Covenant. When God called the children of Israel out of Egypt there was no distinction of you can come but you have to stay because God didn't call you. The prophecy is that God will call out His people in covenant out of Egypt and that's what happen. God is bound to His covenants and promises. He is not a man that should lie, has He not promised, and shall He not perform it?

12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed. Num. 22:12.

No distinction between good and evil, or obedient and disobedient. God promised and He will perform all He's promised.

7 And he took up his parable, and said,
Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram,
Out of the mountains of the east, saying,
Come, curse me Jacob,
And come, defy Israel.
8 How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed?
Or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied?
Num. 23:6–8.

19 God is not a man, that he should lie;
Neither the son of man, that he should repent:
Hath he said, and shall he not do it?
Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed;
And I cannot reverse it.
21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob,
Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel:
The LORD his God is with him,
And the shout of a king is among them.
22 God brought them out of Egypt;
He hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
23 Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob,
Neither is there any divination against Israel:
According to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel,
What hath God wrought!
24 Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion,
And lift up himself as a young lion:
He shall not lie down until he eat of the prey,
And drink the blood of the slain.
Num. 23:19–24.

17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
Ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Isaiah 45:17.
 
it only applies to a certain group of people,
that is my point not all only certain ones.

Romans 9:6-7

King James Version

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
 
HE DONT SEND STRONG DELISOUNS to the saved which is God who sends them.. which is after the man of sin is revealed 2nd thess chapter 2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know " what withholdeth " that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. { he is the Holy spirit the restrainer }

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
This doesn’t answer my question. Who are those referred to as “God’s holy people” whom the second beast is given the power to war against “and conquer”?

I’ll let you try again. And, by the way, there is no need to yell, and try to be more conscious of your grammar, ie, “
HE DONT SEND STRONG DELISOUNS


Doug
 
that is my point not all only certain ones.

Romans 9:6-7​

King James Version​

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Paul is talking about Ishmael and his descendants (he had twelve sons), and the descendants of Esau. "They are the seed of Abraham, but it was Isaac's family line that had the covenant.
 
2Thess 2:4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

This is the event that publicly reveals the antichrist. This is a specific event that necessarily must happen before the Lord returns.

The characteristics described in 1Tim 4:1-5 are a generalized description, but 2Thess 2 is a very specific description for the church to be aware of and watch for.

The falling away will be those religious people that will fall away from the faith due to the civil and social pressures placed upon the church. (Rev 13:7-10, 15-17)


Doug
Just checking if you see the response to your post
 
Cmon @ezra and @TibiasDad i know you guys can do better than this my friends. I’m tossing in the 🫒 olive branch 🕊️. :)
I have no issue with Ezra, and I am sincere in my comments about only trying to make him better in terms of his clarity of writing. I also am simply asking for an answer to my question, namely who he indentifies “God’s holy people” to be if “the church” is not on earth in Rev 13.

Doug
 
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


what do you consider the falling away apostasy ? i warn you i am not looking for opinions .. i want it backed by script 1 tim 4 gives us a description
The falling away was probably the reformation.

The pattern oriented falling away relates to 1)The divided kingdom, or 2) The captivity of the two kingdoms.

Since the division of the kingdoms was over the amount of work, and the reformation arugment was over "works" .. the shoe seems to fit.
 
Furthermore, how the reformation leads to a typological figure declaring himself God, is through Sola scriptura and the lack of supervision/consensus that followed.

The idea of sola scriptura has morphed and progressed to each person deciding that they are speaking for God, all with different and conflicting interpretations.

Since the temple is the body, as Jesus taught: The passage speaks of an event where everyone declares themselves God by stating their own opinion in scripture cut-outs is "the word of God."
 
Furthermore, how the reformation leads to a typological figure declaring himself God, is through Sola scriptura and the lack of supervision/consensus that followed.

The idea of sola scriptura has morphed and progressed to each person deciding that they are speaking for God, all with different and conflicting interpretations.

Since the temple is the body, as Jesus taught: The passage speaks of an event where everyone declares themselves God by stating their own opinion in scripture cut-outs is "the word of God."
Hello, Frank! Nice to meet you.

This is an interesting interpretation, though I find your last paragraph rather ironic- for as you state your “opinion”, you seem to be “speaking for God” in chastising others for expressing their “opinions” through “scripture cut-outs” as being “the word of God”.

It would seem to me, that the better part of wisdom would remember the adage that “one finger pointing at someone else, means three fingers pointing back at you!”

Just a thought…

Doug
 
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