Understanding........

[TomL]

Nope. There is no coercion in Compatibilism.

…God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices — however many or diverse other intervening causes are. On this definition, no human being has free will, at any time. Neither before or after the fall, or in heaven, are creatures ultimately self-determining

).
In order to understand this better theologians have come up with the term "compatibilism" to
describe the concurrence of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Compatibilism is a form
of determinism and it should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard
determinism. It simply means that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is
"compatible" with voluntary choice. Our choices are not coerced ...i.e. we do not choose against
what we want or desire, yet we never make choices contrary to God's sovereign decree. What
God determines will always come to pass (Eph 1:11). A beginners guide to free will


In other words God determines your desires, and you can only do what is determined for you to do.

 

[Presby02]

Compelled is an adjective that means having to do something, because you are forced to or feel it is necessary1. It can also mean secured or brought about by force2. To compel someone is to cause them to do or occur something by overwhelming pressure and especially by authority or law34. Compelled can also describe someone who is forced or driven to a particular course of action, often by an irresistible internal urge2.

Great. That's not coercion.

Are you compelled to come to the cross?

 

[TomL]

Compelled is different than coercion.

Do you remember your statement

"Good thing no one teaches that God has to compell anyone to do what He has determined to occur."

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/understanding.1439/post-65197

 

[TomL]

Nope. There is no coercion in Compatibilism.

There was in his definition

A coercion forces the person to choose an option that someone else has predetermined him to choose or which he would not necessarily choose without that force being applied. A coercion cannot be resisted.

to which you replied

Great. Not sure how this is relevant

 

[TomL]

Are you compelled to come to the cross?

According to Calvinist theology you either are or you will not come

 

[koberstein]

I had a good talk with a Messianic Rabbi on Shabbat about Calvinism. Calvinism has not been kind to the Jewish people. It has its roots in Reform Theology. If you pull the veneer off Reform Theology you will find Replacement Theology which is antisemitic and a heresy. Adonai does not predetermine human events, but can effect the outcome of those human effects according to His will and purpose.

 

[Presby02]

Do you remember your statement

"Good thing no one teaches that God has to compell anyone to do what He has determined to occur."

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/understanding.1439/post-65197

Yup, what about it.

According to Calvinist theology you either are or you will not come

So the cross is compulsory right?

 

[civic]

Yup, what about it.

So the cross is compulsory right?

In calvinism all humanity has been predetermined to be saved or condemned with no ability to choose otherwise. Predestination in calvinism removes man from the equation with their eternal destiny. It's called monergism. Calvin even called his own doctrine of double predestination a horrific/dreadful doctrine. The cross is meaningless since only the elects sins were atoned for and that makes the gospel null and void. A calvinist cannot tell a lost person Jesus died for their sins since they do not know if they were one of the elect sinners chosen by God to be saved or someone God has determined will be condemned. The gospel in calvinism is only for the elect sinner, it's not a message for the whole world.

The answer= synergism. The gospel is for everyone, salvation is for everyone, the cross is for everyone, Jesus died for everyone. The sins of the whole world . John 3:16, 1 John 2:2.

hope this helps !!!

 

[simpleton]

In calvinism all humanity has been predetermined to be saved or condemned with no ability to choose otherwise. Predestination in calvinism removes man from the equation with their eternal destiny. It's called monergism. Calvin even called his own doctrine of double predestination a horrific/dreadful doctrine. The cross is meaningless since only the elects sins were atoned for and that makes the gospel null and void. A calvinist cannot tell a lost person Jesus died for their sins since they do not know if they were one of the elect sinners chosen by God to be saved or someone God has determined will be condemned. The gospel in calvinism is only for the elect sinner, it's not a message for the whole world.

The answer= synergism. The gospel is for everyone, salvation is for everyone, the cross is for everyone, Jesus died for everyone. The sins of the whole world . John 3:16, 1 John 2:2.

hope this helps !!!

I have never understood those who are against synergism. God has said so many times man is responsible for his own actions to obey and follow His commands.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I had a good talk with a Messianic Rabbi on Shabbat about Calvinism. Calvinism has not been kind to the Jewish people. It has its roots in Reform Theology. If you pull the veneer off Reform Theology you will find Replacement Theology which is antisemitic and a heresy. Adonai does not predetermine human events, but can effect the outcome of those human effects according to His will and purpose.

You shouldn't determine your theology based solely upon others treat you. You'll never be nothing more than a "pawn" to the actions of men if you keep taking this approach. Those that praise you will become your leaders. You're far too easily influenced by such.


Messianic Judaism is often every similar to Calvinism. Don't you believe you are chosen in Abraham and have never been in bondage to anyone?

 

[Presby02]

In calvinism all humanity has been predetermined to be saved or condemned with no ability to choose otherwise. Predestination in calvinism removes man from the equation with their eternal destiny. It's called monergism. Calvin even called his own doctrine of double predestination a horrific/dreadful doctrine. The cross is meaningless since only the elects sins were atoned for and that makes the gospel null and void. A calvinist cannot tell a lost person Jesus died for their sins since they do not know if they were one of the elect sinners chosen by God to be saved or someone God has determined will be condemned. The gospel in calvinism is only for the elect sinner, it's not a message for the whole world.

The answer= synergism. The gospel is for everyone, salvation is for everyone, the cross is for everyone, Jesus died for everyone. The sins of the whole world . John 3:16, 1 John 2:2.

hope this helps !!!

The cross was not meaningless to me.

Then logically everyone is saved.

 

[Presby02]

I have never understood those who are against synergism. God has said so many times man is responsible for his own actions to obey and follow His commands.

No one says your not responsible

We are against synergism for one simple reason. The Bible does not teach it.

 

[civic]

The cross was not meaningless to me.

Then logically everyone is saved.

Synergism is not universalism Arminians and Provisionists are not universalists.

 

[Presby02]

Synergism is not universalism Arminians and Provisionists are not universalists.

Never said it was. It's always better to address what is actually said.

Logically they seem to be although I would say they are contradictory also.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Synergism is not universalism Arminians and Provisionists are not universalists.

I know we have talked about this before, if anything..... Calvinism is a natural path to Universalism.

All you have to do is see "Limited Atonement" for what it truly teaches and you're right there in the Calvinist system. Universalism

 

[Presby02]

I know we have talked about this before, if anything..... Calvinism is a natural path to Universalism.

All you have to do is see "Limited Atonement" for what it truly teaches and you're right there in the Calvinist system. Universalism

Is it? Do explain

 

[koberstein]

You wrong. Messianic Judaism is not similar to Calvinism. If John Calvin understood the Tanakh better he might have been a better theologian. Calvin is a lot like people today they spend more time studying the Brit Hadashah than the Tanakh. The entire Bible needs to be studied. I'm no pawn to anyone. My theology is based on the correct and deep interpretations of the Torah and Tanakh in conjunction with the Brit Hadashah. I am part of Abraham's lineage and I am not in bondage to anyone physically or financially.
Can you say the same?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You wrong. Messianic Judaism is not similar to Calvinism. If John Calvin understood the Tanakh better he might have been a better theologian. Calvin is a lot like people today they spend more time studying the Brit Hadashah than the Tanakh. The entire Bible needs to be studied. I'm no pawn to anyone. My theology is based on the correct and deep interpretations of the Torah and Tanakh in conjunction with the Brit Hadashah. I am part of Abraham's lineage and I am not in bondage to anyone physically or financially.
Can you say the same?

I'm a descendent of Jesus Christ. That is all that matters. Death is the great equalizer. Where is your treasure?

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

 

[koberstein]

Gosh by reading your rants I didn't know you were a descendant of anything. My wealth is in the Heavenly Bank and Trust where they pay a very compelling interest rate.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Gosh by reading your rants I didn't know you were a descendant of anything. My wealth is in the Heavenly Bank and Trust where they pay a very compelling interest rate.

You've said otherwise. Didn't you recently use your current "retired wealthy" as a proof that God approves of you?

As far as "my rants"...... you might see them in a "different light" if you actually care more about Messiah than your recent appeals to value indicate.