No nothing at all to do with catholicism
It is just a plain reading of the text unhindered by the imaginations of the watchtower society
Truth about the resurrection
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
It is just a plain reading of the text unhindered by the imaginations of the watchtower society
You did not address it
That is human reasoning failing to consider The word becoming flesh
this is scripture
Jesus is Jehovah
stated of Jesus
Hebrews 1:10–12 (KJV 1900) — 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
stated of Jehovah
Psalm 102:25–27 (UASV) — 25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will endure; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like clothing, and they will pass away, 27 but you are the same, and your years will never end.
as proven by
Psalm 102:19–24 (UASV) — 19 that he looked down from his holy height; from heaven Jehovah looked at the earth, 20 to hear the groans of the prisoners, to set free those who were doomed to die, 21 that they may declare in Zion the name of Jehovah, and his praise in Jerusalem, 22 when the peoples are gathered together, and kingdoms, to serve Jehovah. 23 He has weakened my strength in the way; he has shortened my days. 24 I say, “O my God, “do not take me away in the midst of my days, your years are throughout all generations.
God will show the whole world= They will have to know-i am YHWH(Jehovah)
Um I do not think you are Jehovah
TibiasDad
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
another thing you have wrong
NT:4416
prototokos (prwto/toko$, NT:4416), "firstborn" (from protos, "first," and tikto, "to beget"), is used of Christ as born of the Virgin Mary, Luke 2:7; further, in His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the "first" to be born. It is used occasionally of superiority of position in the OT, see Ex 4:22; Deut 21:16,17, the prohibition being against the evil of assigning the privileged position of the "firstborn" to one born subsequently to the "first" child.
The five passages in the NT relating to Christ may be set forth chronologically thus: (a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as v. 16 makes clear); (b) Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5, in reference to His resurrection; (c) Rom 8:29, His position in relationship to the church; (d) Heb 1:6, RV, His second advent (the RV "when He again bringeth in," puts "again" in the right place, the contrast to His first advent, at His birth, being implied); cf. Ps 89:27. The word is used in the plural, in Heb 11:28, of the firstborn sons in the families of the Egyptians, and in 12:23, of the members of the Church.
Note: With (a) cf. John 1:30, "He was before me," lit., "He was first (protos) of me," i. e., "in regard to me," expressing all that is involved in His preexistence and priority.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)
NT:4416
The figurative meaning of prwto/toko$ in the messianic title prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ 'firstborn of all creation' (Col 1:15 may be interpreted as 'existing before all creation' (see 13.79) or 'existing superior to all creation' (see 87.47).
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
13.79 NT:4416† prwto/toko$b, on: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ 'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand prwto/toko$ in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
87.47 NT:4416† prwto/toko$c, on: pertaining to existing superior to all else of the same or related class - 'superior to, above all.' prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ 'existing superior to all creation' Col 1:15. For another interpretation of prwto/toko$ in Col 1:15, see 13.79;
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
NT:4416
13.79 NT:4416† prwto/toko$b, on: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ 'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand prwto/toko$ in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.
(Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon )
You mean twisted words of men that cannot speak truth on that matter without exposing their falseness.
So say trinitarians= ones in darkness.
The term all creation proves it speaks of the beginning creation.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Many Greek scholars made translations through history. at minimum 20 had a god at John 1:1-3 had was divine, 1 had was godlike. All rejected by the ones using altered translating.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
You are moving the goalpost Keiw1: You said “He was=the firstborn of all creation = the beginning”, the Greek does not support that argument.
“He was” is not “the beginning”
“The firstborn of creation” is not “the beginning”
Οὗτος (He) ἦν (was) ἐν ἀρχῇ (in [the] beginning) πρὸς (with) τὸν Θεόν (God) is the point of discussion.
“He was” means that the Word was already with God at the point of the beginning; the use of the past tense (ἦν/was) establishes the existence of the Word prior to the beginning of the creation process. The use of the dative, ἐν ἀρχῇ, expresses this to be true.
The circumstance (in the beginning) cannot be the same as the subject (He/the Word).
Your argument is therefore invalid!
Doug
The term all creation occurred at the beginning=100% fact of life.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation= created=direct, first and last all other things created-THROUGH him. All creation occurred at the beginning.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Firstborn does not mean “the first to be born” in this context, but rather the “preeminent one”, or “highest authority”. This is not a context about natural physical birth, and the word never refers to “creation” per se; but only the order of birth.
Doug
Trinitarians twist it into your words because truth on the matter exposes them as false religion.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
no it means Preeminent - firstborn, protokos. its also means unique, one of a kind.
Yes one of a kind--The only being created direct-first and last. = the only begotten son.
The words are--Firstborn of all creation--and you say creation is not mentioned--try again. Yes the order of birth=Created direct, first and last= the only begotten son.
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