Truth about the resurrection

[Keiw1]

That is funny as the Angel of YHWH was their God

Exodus 3:1–6 (LEB) — 1 And Moses was a shepherd with the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the west of the desert, and he came to the mountain of God, to Horeb. 2 And the angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. 3 And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” 4 And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” 6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at God.

And Christ plainly stated

in your New world testament

Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

In context he is speaking of the Father but Christ did reveal him

and he was the angel of the presence of Jehovah who led them in the desert

Isaiah 63:9–10 (LEB) — 9 In all their distress, there was no distress, and the messenger of his presence saved them, in his love and compassion he himself redeemed them, and he lifted them up, and he supported them all the days of old. 10 But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit, so he became an enemy to them; he himself fought against them.

Exodus 33:11–15 (KJV 1900) — 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. 12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. 13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. 14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest. 15 And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.


1 Corinthians 10:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Yes no man has seen God at any time-means you twist the other passages. They did see Jesus proving he is not God.

 

[Keiw1]

Those who have died (spiritually) to sin, not those who have physically died.

There are two types of death; spiritual and physical. You are making a category error.

Doug

God has already passed judgement on sin=The wages sin pays is death.

 

[Keiw1]

For all have sinned,
and come short
of the glory of God;'
(Rom 3:23)

'My little children,
these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:
And He is the propitiation for our sins:
and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world.'
(1John 2:1)

Hello @Keiw1.

Every offender has their day in court, for justice has to be seen to be done. The just and the unjust are raised to judgment (Acts 24:15). For the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ there is no condemnation (Rom. 8:1), they pass from death into life, for they are covered by the blood of Christ, their sins are atoned for. Christ has paid the penalty for their sins. The ignorant or unbelieving dead are dealt with in righteousness, by Him who knows the secrets of men's hearts, and. is therefore able to make righteous judgements based on knowledge (Rom.1 & 2). The second death is eternal, there is no hope of reprieve from that, only destruction for eternity (Re. 20 & 21).

'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:'
(2Pe 2:9)

Judgement has not yet been passed on either sinner or saint, that awaits judgement following the resurrection (2 Pet. 2:9). There is no consciousness in death now, no punishment is being inflicted prior to judgement for that would not be just. So all have to be raised, and stand before their Maker.

'For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by His grace
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation
through faith in His blood,
to declare His righteousness
for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:
that He might be Just, and the Justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.'
(Rom 3:23-26)

Praise God!

Measure all before the word of God
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Gods judgement of sin= The wages sin pays is death.

 

[Complete]

Gods judgement of sin= The wages sin pays is death.

'But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 6:22-23)

Hello @Keiw1,

The wage that sin receives is death. Death is the wage earned by sin. Sin pays no wages in the text, it receives it. Death is the wage sin has earned. Contrast the 'gift' that God gives. By what means? Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mikesw]

Gods judgement of sin= The wages sin pays is death.

Wow. You take a verse in passing that Paul uses to persuade people away from sinful behavior -- of making a choice to obey righteousness or die. Then you make the death into a triviality, as if paying a debt and then continuing on in life. God forbid! That is one twisted interpretation. Realize that and repent. The awakening of the wicked is to their shame. It is not something anyone would be happy to endure. Nor is it shown to be a resurrection to life; they lost that opportunity. We see the essence of this awakening in Dan 12:2. It would be like being paraded down the street naked and ashamed before you are killed again (the second death).
The interpretations you are given do not take into consideration the whole testimony of scripture.

 

[TibiasDad]

God has already passed judgement on sin=The wages sin pays is death.

Spiritual death is the result of unrepented/unforgiven sin at the point of physical death. The only possible change is during this earthly life. Once we die physically, our fate is certain.

Doug

 

[TomL]

Yes no man has seen God at any time-means you twist the other passages. They did see Jesus proving he is not God.

In you confusion you fail to understand

1 it is talking about the father

(NWT) Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

are you going to argue with your own scriptures

regular translations

John 5:37 (KJV 1900) — 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.




2 we have clear statement that men did see God

Genesis 32:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13:22–23 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. 23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

Exodus 24:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

They did not see the father but they saw God- the pre-incarnate Christ who has revealed him

 

[Jay]

Jesus has paid our sin debt but we will all still die physically unless you get raptured, The real question is when you leave your earthly body where will you spend Eternity.

1.For we know that when this tent we live in now is taken down—when we die and leave these bodies—we will have wonderful new bodies in heaven, homes that will be ours forevermore, made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2.How weary we grow of our present bodies. That is why we look forward eagerly to the day when we shall have heavenly bodies that we shall put on like new clothes. 3.For we shall not be merely spirits without bodies. 4.These earthly bodies make us groan and sigh, but we wouldn’t like to think of dying and having no bodies at all. We want to slip into our new bodies so that these dying bodies will, as it were, be swallowed up by everlasting life. 5.This is what God has prepared for us, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6.Now we look forward with confidence to our heavenly bodies, realizing that every moment we spend in these earthly bodies is time spent away from our eternal home in heaven with Jesus. 7.We know these things are true by believing, not by seeing.
2 Corinthians 5:1–7

 

[civic]

Jesus has paid our sin debt but we will all still die physically unless you get raptured, The real question is when you leave your earthly body where will you spend Eternity.

1.For we know that when this tent we live in now is taken down—when we die and leave these bodies—we will have wonderful new bodies in heaven, homes that will be ours forevermore, made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2.How weary we grow of our present bodies. That is why we look forward eagerly to the day when we shall have heavenly bodies that we shall put on like new clothes. 3.For we shall not be merely spirits without bodies. 4.These earthly bodies make us groan and sigh, but we wouldn’t like to think of dying and having no bodies at all. We want to slip into our new bodies so that these dying bodies will, as it were, be swallowed up by everlasting life. 5.This is what God has prepared for us, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6.Now we look forward with confidence to our heavenly bodies, realizing that every moment we spend in these earthly bodies is time spent away from our eternal home in heaven with Jesus. 7.We know these things are true by believing, not by seeing.
2 Corinthians 5:1–7

Yes another passage about our glorious bodies we will have in heaven.

 

[Keiw1]

'But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 6:22-23)

Hello @Keiw1,

The wage that sin receives is death. Death is the wage earned by sin. Sin pays no wages in the text, it receives it. Death is the wage sin has earned. Contrast the 'gift' that God gives. By what means? Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes death is Gods judgement for sin.

 

[Keiw1]

In you confusion you fail to understand

1 it is talking about the father

(NWT) Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

are you going to argue with your own scriptures

regular translations

John 5:37 (KJV 1900) — 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.




2 we have clear statement that men did see God

Genesis 32:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Judges 13:22–23 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. 23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

Exodus 24:9–10 (KJV 1900) — 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

They did not see the father but they saw God- the pre-incarnate Christ who has revealed him

No man has ever seen God. So there are alternate meanings to what you think is said in other passages. One can see God without seeing his personal being. Jesus said one can see the Father in him yet he is not the Father.

 

[TomL]

No man has ever seen God. So there are alternate meanings to what you think is said in other passages. One can see God without seeing his personal being. Jesus said one can see the Father in him yet he is not the Father.

It's as plain as day

John 5:37 (KJV 1900) — 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46 (KJV 1900) — 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

The Father was not seen, but God the son was

As the messenger of his presense who was termed God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph Yahweh

 

[Jay]

Christ’s life, death, and resurrection are the definitive testimony and fulfillment of the gospel, for God desires all mankind to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). God takes no delight in the death of the wicked (Ez. 18:23). God is patient towards all, because He does not wish for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). God is perfectly fair, just and impartially sovereign over the universe (Rom. 2:11; Acts 10:34; Eph. 6:9; James 2:1; 8-9).

Flowers, Leighton. God's Provision For All: A Defense of God's Goodness

 

[TomL]

Christ’s life, death, and resurrection are the definitive testimony and fulfillment of the gospel, for God desires all mankind to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). God takes no delight in the death of the wicked (Ez. 18:23). God is patient towards all, because He does not wish for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). God is perfectly fair, just and impartially sovereign over the universe (Rom. 2:11; Acts 10:34; Eph. 6:9; James 2:1; 8-9).

Flowers, Leighton. God's Provision For All: A Defense of God's Goodness

all this is true

 

[Jay]

all this is true

“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:31–32

Knowing the truth means experiencing Jesus Christ by accepting His teachings as absolute truth and then living in faithful obedience to them.

 

[TomL]

“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:31–32

Knowing the truth means experiencing Jesus Christ by accepting His teachings as absolute truth and then living in faithful obedience to them.

Ok

 

[Keiw1]

“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:31–32

Knowing the truth means experiencing Jesus Christ by accepting His teachings as absolute truth and then living in faithful obedience to them.

Few know what Jesus taught--that is the problem. They can't abide in his word if they do not know al he taught. Unfortunately the blind guides usually looking for a tithe throw the words--you are saved around, yet they do not know who is saved or will be saved only in theory--1) they cant read another's true heart-2) they have never seen a single name written in Gods book of life-3) they have no clue who will endure until their end to be saved( Matt 10:22)--They are telling ones who work iniquity that they are saved-Why? Because they do not know. Like Joel Osteen-on TV millions watch. He says --say 3 lines of prayer with me and you are saved. He doesn't know 1 100th of those people or what they do. But the blind believe him and all other blind guides as well who say that-you are saved.

 

[TomL]

Few know what Jesus taught--that is the problem. They can't abide in his word if they do not know al he taught. Unfortunately the blind guides usually looking for a tithe throw the words--you are saved around, yet they do not know who is saved or will be saved only in theory--1) they cant read another's true heart-2) they have never seen a single name written in Gods book of life-3) they have no clue who will endure until their end to be saved( Matt 10:22)--They are telling ones who work iniquity that they are saved-Why? Because they do not know. Like Joel Osteen-on TV millions watch. He says --say 3 lines of prayer with me and you are saved. He doesn't know 1 100th of those people or what they do. But the blind believe him and all other blind guides as well who say that-you are saved.

And the Jehovah Witnesses are high on that list for they do not know Christ. They make him Michael, the arch Angel who became a man and Michael did not exist. At the resurrection he became Michael again and Christ did not exist as other than Michael

From where do Jehovah's Witnesses derive the doctrine that Jesus was and now is Michael the Archangel?​

Ask Question
Asked 11 years, 7 months ago
Modified 5 months ago
Viewed 8k times
14
According to some Watchtower literature, it is taught that Michael the Archangel is Jesus and that Jesus, after He ascended into heaven, resumed the name of Michael.

"It proves Michael the archangel is no other than the only begotten son of God, now Jesus Christ. The very name Michael means who is like God and indicates Jehovah God is without like or equal." (New Heavens and New Earth pg.30-31).
Jesus is actually the incarnation of Michael the Arch angel and resumed the name when he ascended into heaven ( ibid. pg.30 Your will be done on earth pg.316 )

From where do Jehovah's Witnesses derive the doctrine that Jesus was and now is Michael the Archangel?

According to some Watchtower literature, it is taught that Michael the Archangel is Jesus and that Jesus, after He ascended into heaven, resumed the name of Michael. "It proves Michael the archa...

christianity.stackexchange.com

 

[Jay]

Few know what Jesus taught--that is the problem. They can't abide in his word if they do not know al he taught. Unfortunately the blind guides usually looking for a tithe throw the words--you are saved around, yet they do not know who is saved or will be saved only in theory--1) they cant read another's true heart-2) they have never seen a single name written in Gods book of life-3) they have no clue who will endure until their end to be saved( Matt 10:22)--They are telling ones who work iniquity that they are saved-Why? Because they do not know. Like Joel Osteen-on TV millions watch. He says --say 3 lines of prayer with me and you are saved. He doesn't know 1 100th of those people or what they do. But the blind believe him and all other blind guides as well who say that-you are saved.

I can't speak for other people and their relationship with God. In fact The Bible teaches us not to do that. It tells us in Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. You cannot judge another person's servant. The master decides if the servant is doing well or not. And the Lord's servant will do well because the Lord helps him do well.

 

[civic]

I can't speak for other people and their relationship with God. In fact The Bible teaches us not to do that. It tells us in Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. You cannot judge another person's servant. The master decides if the servant is doing well or not. And the Lord's servant will do well because the Lord helps him do well.

Agreed we should not judge a person and his Maker- but we can judge their doctrines if they are true or false. in fact the Bible instructs us to judge the teachings to see if they are true.

The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus and the saints is one of those fundamental doctrines we can test ones belief since its at the very heart of the Gospel as Paul outlines in 1 Corinthians 15- We know the Resurrection body is physical, material, tangible, glorified, incorruptible, immortal just like our Lords.