Trinitarian Training

[Runningman]

Show me where it says God in one person .

Next fallacy

John 17:3 is clear that the Father being the only God necessitates He be the one and only God. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 explicitly and clearly states the Father is the one God for us, contrary to there being other lords and gods who are not for us. Scripture clearly teaches that the trinity is a fake god. That's an idol.

 

[mikesw]

John 17:3 is clear that the Father being the only God necessitates He be the one and only God. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 explicitly and clearly states the Father is the one God for us, contrary to there being other lords and gods who are not for us. Scripture clearly teaches that the trinity is a fake god. That's an idol.

Oops. You forgot John 17:5 again. New prescription glasses might help.
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

 

[Runningman]

Oops. You forgot John 17:5 again. New prescription glasses might help.
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Whataboutisms don't change the fact the Father is identified as the one and only God.

 

[amazing grace]

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .

I am absolutely flabbergasted that you see ANY place where I denied my heavenly Father?

WHERE IS IT? Please point out your accusation,

You are denying what He is, therefore you are denying Him.

I asked you WHERE in that post did I deny the Father and you respond with a lecture on understanding the Trinity????
That does not answer my question . . . . you can't answer because you can't show me where I denied the Father because I didn't.

 

[mikesw]

Whataboutisms don't change the fact the Father is identified as the one and only God.

You keep making an argument against polytheism. That of course is a rookie's mistake. The Triune God is not polytheistic. That is the essential point scripture reveals.

 

[Runningman]

You keep making an argument against polytheism. That of course is a rookie's mistake. The Triune God is not polytheistic. That is the essential point scripture reveals.

John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6 prove there are no others who are Lord God Almighty. See also Revelation 1:4-8 and Revelation 21:22. Means Jesus isn't God.

 

[mikesw]

John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6 prove there are no others who are Lord God Almighty. See also Revelation 1:4-8 and Revelation 21:22. Means Jesus isn't God.

Oops. Agan you miss John 17:5. This is getting to be something obviously off in your studies.
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. It is your blind spot, just like the Pharisees had.

 

[Runningman]

Oops. Agan you miss John 17:5. This is getting to be something obviously off in your studies.
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. It is your blind spot, just like the Pharisees had.

John 17:5 doesn't change John 17:3 and never has. Never really figured out why you guys thought that would somehow tear down the guardrails of the Father being the "only" true God. Do you know what the word only means? I think you don't.

Only means solitary, sole, or single. Jesus stated the Father is the sole God. The Father is one person who is God. Super easy to understand.

 

[mikesw]

John 17:5 doesn't change John 17:3 and never has. Never really figured out why you guys thought that would somehow tear down the guardrails of the Father being the "only" true God. Do you know what the word only means? I think you don't.

Only means solitary, sole, or single. Jesus stated the Father is the sole God. The Father is one person who is God. Super easy to understand.

You have to claim that Jesus is a false god to substantiate your view. Do I have to remind you again that Christians see Jesus as of the same God, not a second god. That is super easy to understand.
The problem that you have is you deny the pre-existence that Jesus speaks of. I guess you do not understand the history needed to understand who Jesus is.

 

[civic]

John 17:3 is clear that the Father being the only God necessitates He be the one and only God. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 explicitly and clearly states the Father is the one God for us, contrary to there being other lords and gods who are not for us. Scripture clearly teaches that the trinity is a fake god. That's an idol.

no it does not say " God is one person"

nice try

 

[Runningman]

You have to claim that Jesus is a false god to substantiate your view. Do I have to remind you again that Christians see Jesus as of the same God, not a second god. That is super easy to understand.
The problem that you have is you deny the pre-existence that Jesus speaks of. I guess you do not understand the history needed to understand who Jesus is.

So this seems to be you not understanding how the word god can be used in Hebrews theology and culture. People, angels, the devil, kings, idols, etc can be called gods in their own right without being The God Almighty. That may be the issue to sorting out your misunderstandings of Scripture.

Do you believe that anyone or anything called god or a god is the same as God Almighty? There are no other true God's aside from YHWH the Father. John 17:3 proves that.

 

[Runningman]

no it does not say " God is one person"

nice try

The Bible teaches that the Father is a person, thus God is a singular person. Do you also disagree with that?

 

[synergy]

This means that belief in God and Jesus aren't the same beliefs. Check mate.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

It's fascinating that I do reply to all your comments but you avoid my comments that prove that each and every component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

 

[civic]

Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

It's fascinating that I do reply to all your comments but you avoid my comments that prove that each and every component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

Amen

 

[mikesw]

The Bible teaches that the Father is a person, thus God is a singular person. Do you also disagree with that?

You are missing the philosophical use from the common use of the word. The most conventional use of course is that a person is a human. So you already have messed up royally unless you refer to God's incarnation. You miss the whole essence of the discussion.

 

[101G]

It's fascinating that I do reply to all your comments but you avoid my comments that prove that each and every component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

101G have a question. "did not the Lord Jesus raised up his own Body?" let the scriptures speak, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

if the Lord Jesus said he would raise up his Body and Jesus is God, why did the apostle Peter say on the day of Pentecost say, Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses." is this not the same one God, Jesus?

one more, Acts 2:24 "Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it." AGAIN, if this is the same God.... who is Jesus, why not say what the Lord Jesus said. John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

101G.

 

[Scott]

One of the objections to the traditional view of the Trinity is that it rests on an outdated way of understanding the Scriptures. This is not merely a question of the interpretation of one passage of Scripture or another.

Rather, it involves a completely different understanding of the nature and status of Scripture. Some of this happened in relatively simple and undisputed fashion.

For example, textual criticism, accepted by both conservative and liberal scholars, concluded that the crucial portion of the 1 John 5 proof text was not part of the original reading of the biblical text, since no Greek manuscript earlier than the sixteenth century contained it. there other issues that are more complex and controversial, however.

 

[mikesw]

One of the objections to the traditional view of the Trinity is that it rests on an outdated way of understanding the Scriptures. This is not merely a question of the interpretation of one passage of Scripture or another.

Rather, it involves a completely different understanding of the nature and status of Scripture. Some of this happened in relatively simple and undisputed fashion.

For example, textual criticism, accepted by both conservative and liberal scholars, concluded that the crucial portion of the 1 John 5 proof text was not part of the original reading of the biblical text, since no Greek manuscript earlier than the sixteenth century contained it. there other issues that are more complex and controversial, however.

What is the broader challenge that you envision? The knowledge of the Triune God depends on hundreds of verses.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

It's fascinating that I do reply to all your comments but you avoid my comments that prove that each and every component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

You've only proven then Jesus is not God with this and the verses I have added in my previous comment expanded on it. So we have John 14:1 that proves belief in God and Jesus are two different things, which is firm. We John 5:24 that says that those who believe Him who sent Jesus have eternal life, that's firm. We have John 17:3 where we learn the one who sent Jesus is the Father who is the only true God. Then we have all of the verses you just added.

So why do you not believe in God the way Jesus representing Him? Jesus said it's required for salvation.

 

[Runningman]

You are missing the philosophical use from the common use of the word. The most conventional use of course is that a person is a human. So you already have messed up royally unless you refer to God's incarnation. You miss the whole essence of the discussion.

Personhood doesn't necessitate that one be a human. Personhood requires whoever it is possess personality, which God does. You seem to be saying God messed up? I didn't write the Bible. God gets angry, happy, regrets, can be sad, etc. Each of the persons in your pantheon are also identified as persons according to Orthdox trinitarianism. It's funny I seemed to have accidentally made you begin arguing against the trinity in your blind haste to disagree with anything I say.