Trinitarian Training

[mikesw]

I was thinking it could have been nice to just have a trinitarian lesson without the distractions or apologetics that could happen elsewhere. maybe there is an area like resources or like the one-on-none debate area. haha

 

[civic]

It's always hilarious whenever unitarians ignorantly and shamelessly promote John 17:3 as a unitarian verse. Each component of that verse radiates the Deity of the Jesus.

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!

Exactly brother - TRUTH prevails once again. They deny He alone is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

They are missing Him on all 3 accounts.

 

[mikesw]

I read John 1 differently then what this would suggest.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I do not see this as "the Son is a later designation or revelation."

I basically meant that the use of Logos expresses a a functional identity without a name but then gets identified as the Son and Jesus even within the same passage. In the Old Testament we see him identified as the Word and Angel of the Lord. Both those concepts convey the idea of the message of God going to humans. There is no unique designation as one of the powers in heaven (where I allude to the Jewish recognition of Two Powers in Heaven by Segal). The unique designations begins to appear in the New Testament.

 

[Runningman]

Here Jesus is calling His disciples to the same level of absolute belief in Him that they have in God - an act that would be idolatrous if He were not truly God (Jer 17:5-7).

John 5:24 is a perfectly Trinitarian verse in that we need to believe both the Father and Jesus to have eternal life. That’s because eternal life comes only from God (Isaiah 43:11) and only from Jesus (Acts 4:12), which makes Jesus God.

As usual, you did not address any of the points I made about John 17:3 but ran away from them as fast as your little legs can carry you. Here are my points again. Either you address them or it's automatically Case Closed:

Each component of John 17:3 radiates the Deity of the Jesus:

“This is eternal life”:
Eternal life is something only God can grant (Isa 43:11). Eternal life is God Himself, as confirmed by Jesus when he said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25). Thus, the gift of eternal life is God Himself, the gift of the Holy Spirit Himself to be more exact. John 17:3 begins with an action that already identifies the Deity of Christ.

“That they may know You…”:
Eternal life is found in a singular "You" who the verse goes on to explain is both the Father and the Son, not in dividing the Deity of the Father from the Son as unitarians shamelessly do. It is manifestly clear that that "there is salvation in no other One.." other than Jesus (Acts 4:12) which proves again that Jesus is God because only God is the Savior (Isa 43:11).

“…the only true God, and Jesus Christ”
There is no mention here that only the Father is the only true God, as unitarians always attempt to dupe everyone into believing. That would directly contradict John 1:1c where it is explicitly mentioned that “the Word was God.” John’s Gospel never restricts Deity to the Father alone; rather, it reveals the Son as fully divine and distinct in person yet one in essence (cf. John 10:30, 20:28), proving Jesus is God. It is also manifestly ridiculous to say that the universe was created through a "personification". It's time that unitarians grew up from that kindergarten fairy tale view of things.

“…whom You have sent.”
The term “sent” (ἀπέστειλας) refers to the mission of the pre-existent Word. John 1:1–2 already affirms this: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [πρὸς τὸν Θεόν — face to face with God].” This face-to-face relationship signifies distinct Personhood within the unity of God - the same Person who pre-existed and was sent to the world by God. This is confirmed by the following verses:

• John 3:17 – “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
• John 6:38 – “I have come down from heaven, not to do My will but the will of Him who sent Me.”
• John 8:42 – “I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.”
• John 16:28 – “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Each one of these verses shows that the sending involves a Personal Pre-Existence. The Son comes from the Father’s presence, not from creation.

What happened was you got debunked. I quoted John 14:1 because it proves that belief in Jesus is not equal to belief in God. You're making the same error all trinitarians make. You think if you argue enough you can change what the Bible says. Then you repeat the same debunked talking points as if you didn't realize you just suffered a humiliating public defeat, again.

Read this slowly. Do you agree with the below statement yes or no?

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

 

[synergy]

What happened was you got debunked. I quoted John 14:1 because it proves that belief in Jesus is not equal to belief in God. You're making the same error all trinitarians make. You think if you argue enough you can change what the Bible says. Then you repeat the same debunked talking points as if you didn't realize you just suffered a humiliating public defeat, again.

Read this slowly. Do you agree with the below statement yes or no?

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

 

[civic]

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

Uni’s don’t understand John 14:1 is the Sons declaration of equality with the Father just the same as in John 17:3.

 

[synergy]

Uni’s don’t understand John 14:1 is the Sons declaration of equality with the Father just the same as in John 17:3.

Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

@Runningman continues to help the Trinitarian cause.

 

[amazing grace]

Of course Trinitarians agree with and believe John 14:1 and the rest of the Bible for that matter. I already addressed how that verse makes Unitarians idolators.

Listen, we're not like unitarians that run away as fast as their little legs can carry them from entire Bible Chapters such as John 1. As I told you before, if you cannot offer any counterargument then it is Case Closed. You offered nothing except a baseless "you got debunked" feeble whimper, which is laughable at best. So that is where we stand.

Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1. That makes Unitarians idolators through and through.

@Runningman continues to help the Trinitarian cause.

John 1:14 - Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe ALSO in me. . . .

There are two people here - God and Jesus. Jesus is asking us to believe in God and additionally to believe in him.
ALSO means ADDITIONALLY, IN ADDITION, AS WELL.

Rut Roh . . . believe in God and in addition believe Jesus is God? I don't think so. I believe that would add up to two that are 'god' which would be considered idolatry.

 

[FreeInChrist]

John 1:14 - Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe ALSO in me. . . .

There are two people here - God and Jesus. Jesus is asking us to believe in God and additionally to believe in him.
ALSO means ADDITIONALLY, IN ADDITION, AS WELL.

Rut Roh . . . believe in God and in addition believe Jesus is God? I don't think so. I believe that would add up to two that are 'god' which would be considered idolatry.

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

 

[civic]

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

Amen and He ( God the Word, Son ) was not going to leave them as orphans ( without God ) meaning He was leaving and going to send Another in His place that would be with them and in them- the Holy Spirit of promise who is God and also kown as the Comforter, Paraclete. These Three are One. The Blessed Trinity.

In John 14 God the Son is comforting His disciples about leaving them physically at His Ascension.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amazing grace]

GOD IN 3 PERSONS

Where's the 3rd person in John 14:1?

synergy used that verse to prove that we are to believe in God as well as believe that Jesus is God.

I quote from synergy: Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1.

I just pointed out the verse says - You believe in God believe ALSO in me. #1 - We are to believe in God and in addition believe that (#2) Jesus is God . . . there's no mistaking what one would take away from that rendering = two gods.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Where's the 3rd person in John 14:1?

synergy used that verse to prove that we are to believe in God as well as believe that Jesus is God.

I quote from synergy: Yes, Jesus is asking for the very same absolute belief, that the Father is entitled to, to be directed to himself also. There is no more clearer verse that Jesus is God than John 14:1.

I just pointed out the verse says - You believe in God believe ALSO in me. #1 - We are to believe in God and in addition believe that (#2) Jesus is God . . . there's no mistaking what one would take away from that rendering = two gods.

I absolutely am flabbergasted that you are denying our Holy Father .