Trinitarian Training

[mikesw]

Personhood doesn't necessitate that one be a human. Personhood requires whoever it is possess personality, which God does. You seem to be saying God messed up? I didn't write the Bible. God gets angry, happy, regrets, can be sad, etc. Each of the persons in your pantheon are also identified as persons according to Orthdox trinitarianism. It's funny I seemed to have accidentally made you begin arguing against the trinity in your blind haste to disagree with anything I say.

you always want to follow the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary but have decided now to violate that rule.
You have spoken of God as a person but that only applies in incarnation. So do you want to confess the incarnation or deny Christ?
Certainly the term "person" is used in a theological sense rather that per the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary. Your failure to acknowledge that shows that you do not understand what you are talking about.

 

[Runningman]

you always want to follow the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary but have decided now to violate that rule.
You have spoken of God as a person but that only applies in incarnation. So do you want to confess the incarnation or deny Christ?
Certainly the term "person" is used in a theological sense rather that per the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary. Your failure to acknowledge that shows that you do not understand what you are talking about.

You have a bad argument. You have now attempted to de-person God and I know why. You need God to be a status rather than a person because you need your god to be a trinity. This is where you lose the debate. God (singular) exhibits qualities of personhood repeatedly, proving that God is a person and denied being human.

Let's see you pull one out of your bag of tricks to deny God being a singular person now.


God thinks, reasons and plans - Genesis 1:26

God speaks and listens - Deuteronomy 5:24-28

God feels emotions - Exodus 4:14

God makes moral judgements - Psalm 11:4-7

God enters relationship - Isaiah 54:5

God has a name and identity - Exodus 3:14,15

God is not human - Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9

 

[Rowan]

THE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool.
Psalm 110:1.

There are other significant hints about the Trinity in the Old Testament. Like Psalm 110:1... This psalm has a very strange beginning.

The psalmist says, “HE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool” Characteristically, when we see the personal name of God, Yahweh, in the Old Testament, we also see His chief or supreme title, Adonai, associated with it.

For instance, Psalm 8 says, “O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! In the Hebrew, “O LORD, our Lord” reads “O Yahweh, our Adonai”; there is a clear connection between Yahweh and Adonai.

In Psalm 110, however, God is having a conversation with David’s Lord: “The LORD [Yahweh] says to my Lord [Adonai]: Sit at my right hand.…”

The New Testament picks up on this and talks about Jesus simultaneously being David’s son and David’s Lord. This psalm also provides another hint to the multiple dimensions of the being of God when it declares that God’s Son will be a priest forever, an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[mikesw]

You have a bad argument. You have now attempted to de-person God and I know why. You need God to be a status rather than a person because you need your god to be a trinity. This is where you lose the debate. God (singular) exhibits qualities of personhood repeatedly, proving that God is a person and denied being human.

Let's see you pull one out of your bag of tricks to deny God being a singular person now.


God thinks, reasons and plans - Genesis 1:26

God speaks and listens - Deuteronomy 5:24-28

God feels emotions - Exodus 4:14

God makes moral judgements - Psalm 11:4-7

God enters relationship - Isaiah 54:5

God has a name and identity - Exodus 3:14,15

God is not human - Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9

So if God is not human then you deny Jesus came in the flesh.
If you say God is a person, then you say God is flesh. You bounce around and contradict yourself.

 

[Runningman]

So if God is not human then you deny Jesus came in the flesh.
If you say God is a person, then you say God is flesh. You bounce around and contradict yourself.

You act like a skeptic still. It is not "IF God is not a human..." but rather it should be "Since God is not a human..." think about what you're saying compared to what the Bible says.

 

[Runningman]

THE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool.
Psalm 110:1.

There are other significant hints about the Trinity in the Old Testament. Like Psalm 110:1... This psalm has a very strange beginning.

The psalmist says, “HE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool” Characteristically, when we see the personal name of God, Yahweh, in the Old Testament, we also see His chief or supreme title, Adonai, associated with it.

For instance, Psalm 8 says, “O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! In the Hebrew, “O LORD, our Lord” reads “O Yahweh, our Adonai”; there is a clear connection between Yahweh and Adonai.

In Psalm 110, however, God is having a conversation with David’s Lord: “The LORD [Yahweh] says to my Lord [Adonai]: Sit at my right hand.…”

The New Testament picks up on this and talks about Jesus simultaneously being David’s son and David’s Lord. This psalm also provides another hint to the multiple dimensions of the being of God when it declares that God’s Son will be a priest forever, an eternal priest after the order of Melchizedek.

I'm also quoting those verses. Did you notice that Jesus is a priest forever Jesus like Mel is a priest forever? Only temporary at the right hand of God, hence "until?"

 

[mikesw]

You act like a skeptic still. It is not "IF God is not a human..." but rather it should be "Since God is not a human..." think about what you're saying compared to what the Bible says.

I sum up the scriptures on this point. Jesus is God incarnate. God the Father is invisible but becomes visible through his Son to humanity. Jesus can do this because he is the incarnated one. Great. I match what scriptures reveal.

 

[Runningman]

I sum up the scriptures on this point. Jesus is God incarnate. God the Father is invisible but becomes visible through his Son to humanity. Jesus can do this because he is the incarnated one. Great. I match what scriptures reveal.

I think you are being dishonest or ignorant. Did you know that Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9 explicitly and clearly state that God is not a human?

 

[mikesw]

I think you are being dishonest or ignorant. Did you know that Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9 explicitly and clearly state that God is not a human?

duh. God in his full essence and glory is not human. Why do you bring up obvious details? It is in the incarnation that we have Jesus who then also is human. That does not contradict the divinity of Christ as you so hope it would. I do not even know why you are so inclined to deny who Christ Jesus is.

 

[Runningman]

duh. God in his full essence and glory is not human. Why do you bring up obvious details? It is in the incarnation that we have Jesus who then also is human. That does not contradict the divinity of Christ as you so hope it would. I do not even know why you are so inclined to deny who Christ Jesus is.

Ok so you understand that. Next, did you know the entire Old Testament makes no mention of God becoming a human? Did you know God doesn't change?

 

[mikesw]

Ok so you understand that. Next, did you know the entire Old Testament makes no mention of God becoming a human? Did you know God doesn't change?

So you are going to deny Christ because you say it is changing God and you do not agree with Christ Jesus in that change?
I cannot understand why you deny God's ability and interest in sending his Son who was in his bosom down to save the world.

 

[Runningman]

So you are going to deny Christ because you say it is changing God and you do not agree with Christ Jesus in that change?
I cannot understand why you deny God's ability and interest in sending his Son who was in his bosom down to save the world.

Focus. God said He isn't a man in Hosea 11:9, the prophet said so as well in Numbers 23:19. Next, there is not reference to God stating He would become a man in the entire Old or New Testament. It's going to be tough to break through the brainwashing. How long have you been a trinitarian?

 

[mikesw]

Focus. God said He isn't a man in Hosea 11:9, the prophet said so as well in Numbers 23:19. Next, there is not reference to God stating He would become a man in the entire Old or New Testament. It's going to be tough to break through the brainwashing. How long have you been a trinitarian?

Okay. You established in Num 23:19 God is not descended from man and does not have the fallen nature that would be common there.

Then we have Hosea 11:9 (NASB95)
9I will not execute My fierce anger; I will not destroy Ephraim again. For I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst, And I will not come in wrath.

I do not see any Trinitarian saying that God was a man in Hosea 11:9. Maybe you have heard someone say he is man in that situation. You can share that secret detail with us.

But then you go and deny Hosea 12: 3-4
And in his maturity he contended with God.
4 Yes, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed;

This was not a man either but it fully appears to be the one who became incarnate as Jesus. But you are right if you say the the Angel of Yahweh who himself is Yahweh does not come as a man here. We can at least meet that far in agreement.

 

[civic]

you always want to follow the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary but have decided now to violate that rule.
You have spoken of God as a person but that only applies in incarnation. So do you want to confess the incarnation or deny Christ?
Certainly the term "person" is used in a theological sense rather that per the Unitarian Pocket Dictionary. Your failure to acknowledge that shows that you do not understand what you are talking about.

The worlds smallest dictionary in existence

 

[mikesw]

The worlds smallest dictionary in existence

Sure. it is their effort to control the language so we might stop exposing their errors.

 

[Runningman]

Okay. You established in Num 23:19 God is not descended from man and does not have the fallen nature that would be common there.

Then we have Hosea 11:9 (NASB95)
9I will not execute My fierce anger; I will not destroy Ephraim again. For I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst, And I will not come in wrath.

I do not see any Trinitarian saying that God was a man in Hosea 11:9. Maybe you have heard someone say he is man in that situation. You can share that secret detail with us.

But then you go and deny Hosea 12: 3-4
And in his maturity he contended with God.
4 Yes, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed;

This was not a man either but it fully appears to be the one who became incarnate as Jesus. But you are right if you say the the Angel of Yahweh who himself is Yahweh does not come as a man here. We can at least meet that far in agreement.

God said He isn't a man. He never changed His mind, never rescinded that point, never said otherwise. When you quit trying to put words in God's mouth you will actually stop listening to what your organization taught you and more to what the Bible says.

 

[mikesw]

God said He isn't a man. He never changed His mind, never rescinded that point, never said otherwise. When you quit trying to put words in God's mouth you will actually stop listening to what your organization taught you and more to what the Bible says.

I accept the words God says. Maybe you can convince me that he said something different than what scripture reveals. What I do not accept is what you say. You have not proven yourself to be accurate or convincing. If you pay attention to what I just shared, you can start changing your approach and content.

 

[Runningman]

I accept the words God says. Maybe you can convince me that he said something different than what scripture reveals. What I do not accept is what you say. You have not proven yourself to be accurate or convincing. If you pay attention to what I just shared, you can start changing your approach and content.

Sounds like you got a personal problem with the Bible. I am just the messenger. According to what the prophet recorded in Hosea 11:9, Lord God Almighty is on record saying He isn't a man. I didn't write that. If what the Bible says is not convincing for you, why are you debating what it literally says so much?

 

[mikesw]

Sounds like you got a personal problem with the Bible. I am just the messenger. According to what the prophet recorded in Hosea 11:9, Lord God Almighty is on record saying He isn't a man. I didn't write that.

there are messengers of darkness. I need the scriptures instead. I probably will give you multiple additional opportunities to get the text figured out. I'm nice in that way.

 

[Runningman]

there are messengers of darkness. I need the scriptures instead. I probably will give you multiple additional opportunities to get the text figured out. I'm nice in that way.

I say God is not a man.

God says He isn't a man.

Hosea 11
9I will not execute the full fury of My anger;
I will not destroy Ephraim again.
For I am God and not man—
the Holy One among you—
and I will not come in wrath.

Care to explain how, by your own testimony, Hosea is a messenger of darkness?