Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[GeneZ]

Adam didn’t represent Christ it’s the opposite. He became man to do what Adam was incapable of doing. I

Adam failed.
But he was capable.
After all, he observed and named all the animals.

Think about it..
Satan was a much higher and more capable angel than the many angels who chose to remain with God.
It has not to do with capability as far as our choices for God's Word goes.

So? How complex can it be?
"Thou shall not eat from this one tree."

If Adam was incapable? God would have been unfair to condemn Adam for failing.

We need to be careful. Lest we promote an unjust God.

All Adam had to say was "No." It did not require learning and knowing the theory of relativity.

grace and peace ..............

 

[civic]

Adam failed.
But he was capable.
After all, he observed and named all the animals.

Think about it..
Satan was a much higher and more capable angel than the many angels who chose to remain with God.
It has not to do with capability as far as our choices for God's Word goes.

So? How complex can it be?
"Thou shall not eat from this one tree."

If Adam was incapable? God would have been unfair to condemn Adam for failing.

We need to be careful. Lest we promote an unjust God.

All Adam had to say was "No." It did not require learning and knowing the theory of relativity.

grace and peace ..............

Free will being what it is was the demise of Adam. Because of free will he was able to be deceived being created peccable. With Christ it’s the opposite as He is Impeccable and incapable of sinning. He could sin no more than the Father or Holy Spirit are capable of sinning. His Person is Divine.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'

Hello @GeneZ,

The soul is the whole person energised by the breath of life (i.e., spirit). When the verses you have quoted refer to the soul of God Himself, it is His being that is referred to, not some separate entity. His whole being.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was born He became a living soul. When He died it was His spirit (i.e., breath of life) that He commended to the Father (Luke 23:46). That is the part of man that is of God and therefore returns to Him again. It was His spirit (i.e.,breath of life) that returned to Him, when He was quickened into life again, at the resurrection from the dead.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Chris... The Lord only made a body first.
Made from the elements of the earth.
Is your soul made from dust?

The Lord breathed into the nostrils the soul.....

When you say these things?
Are they really said as a question?
Or, as being dogmatically certain?

 

[GeneZ]

Go ahead and let it go. You believe in the Eternal blood of Jesus Christ .

What do you mean by that?

 

[GeneZ]

Free will being what it is was the demise of Adam. Because of free will he was able to be deceived being created peccable. With Christ it’s the opposite as He is Impeccable and incapable of sinning. He could sin no more than the Father or Holy Spirit are capable of sinning. His Person is Divine.

hope this helps !!!

As God He could not sin.
As Man the potential was allowed to be there, so He could be tested.

Why tested? So every trick in the book could be thrown at Him.
Why that?
So He could pioneer the Faith that overcomes the world, the Devil, and man's desires.

He suffered until He perfected the way (of faith) we are now to walk in.
If we learn sound (correct) doctrine, and are correctable when we realize we were mistaken?
And, walk in Truth?
We will become an overcomer in Christ. Not all believers do.

And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter ​

of our faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand ​

of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary ​

and lose heart. Hebrews 12:1b-3​

​

Within what manner of living did He have to pioneer the way and to perfect our faith?

​

​

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears ​

to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son ​

though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the ​

source of eternal salvation for all who obey him." Hebrews 5:7-9​

That was Jesus the man who suffered. He had to make himself to be as a man.

For what reason? ...

As God He could not be tempted.
As God he could not suffer.
As God he would not have to learn anything.

That is why He had to make Himself be as a "man."
As Adam was created, Jesus was born!

To make himself to be as a man he gave up his right to his power of Deity done in agreement with the Father to do so. (Philippians 2:6-8)

He became the pioneer and prototype for the spiritual life God wants every Christian to become by grace.


In Christ.......

 

[TedT]

After all, he observed and named all the animals.

Please consider...
The words of Genesis 2:18 are very familiar to us today: The Lord God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone.’” Have you ever considered the implication of this NOT GOODNESS being corrected before everything was judged to be VERY GOOD, verse 1:31? Does it not imply that GOD created something as not good?

How could Adam be alone when GOD was in full fellowship with him? How does the presence of GOD need to be augmented by someone else for Adam to be not alone?

Did HE make a mistake or did something change within HIS creation so Adam was alone in a bad way, that is, needing to be corrected? Do we not believe that the only thing that can separate us from GOD is the free will choice to be sinful, to rebel against HIM because GOD cannot create evil?

And how does GOD fix this not good? HE brings the animals to Adam to name them and to see if his helpmeet was among them: Gen 2:20 The man gave names to all the livestock, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.
helper: S5828. ezer
Definition: a help, helper

suitable: S5048: neged:
in front of, in sight of, opposite to
Does anyone have a reason so many, ie, most, commentators of this verse leave out any reference to the word suitable, that is, “in front of, in sight of, opposite to” as to its meaning to the verse or to the English, suitable? It seems like a wild guess as to what it means here...

So Adam did not just need a companion (perhaps a wife as most commentators suggest?) but he needed help with something... and the help was not just a general help such as with his gardening job but a specialized, suitable, helping as by a teacher, mentor or example, maybe.

Does this need for a specialized helper impact at all upon the question: "Whose idea was it that Adam look among the animals for a his suitable, ie specialized, helper?" GOD knew HE had Eve in the wings for him so it must have been Adam's idea that an animal might be suitable, right? So why did GOD acquiesce to Adam's wanting to look among the animals for his helper instead of just telling him, "Nope, I got someone special for you!?" It seems like there was some separation between them after all, eh? Some lack of communication between GOD and HIS perfect, faithful, creation? Only a bit of miscommunication?

Or does it imply that Adam was not as he was created, ie perfect and faithful, but was being a little rebellious to GOD, ie, unfaithful in his heart against what GOD wanted for him? Does this story imply that Adam was sinful at this time in the garden before they ate the fruit??? Was this why he and Eve were characterized as `RM, erm, that is, naked, the exact same word also used of the serpent to describe his being cunning in evil in the very next verse?

If so, then this cannot have been their creation because they had had time after their creation to understand GOD's commands and to break at least one of them to become sinful, that is, `rm.

 

[Complete]

Chris... The Lord only made a body first.
Made from the elements of the earth.
Is your soul made from dust?

The Lord breathed into the nostrils the soul.....

When you say these things?
Are they really said as a question?
Or, as being dogmatically certain?

Hello @GeneZ,

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)

I am certain.
God has said it, I believe it.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GeneZ]

Please consider...
The words of Genesis 2:18 are very familiar to us today: The Lord God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone.’” Have you ever considered the implication of this NOT GOODNESS being corrected before everything was judged to be VERY GOOD, verse 1:31? Does it not imply that GOD created something as not good?

Ted,


God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

When God saw "it was very good." He was viewing it from what He in His omniscience knew He would complete. He knew He would create the woman for Adam. He knew He would create the animals....

When God said..."Its not good for man to be alone?"

It was HEARD by angels who were watching the creation unfold before their eyes.

God was teaching them that it was not good for man to be alone. And, then went ahead and made it to become the very good as He had known in His omniscience.

 

[TedT]

With Christ it’s the opposite as He is Impeccable and incapable of sinning. He could sin no more than the Father or Holy Spirit are capable of sinning. His Person is Divine.

I agree but I think it was by HIS nature as being loving ie by His choice to love that inhibits His desire to sin. Sin comes from desire , James 1:14-16 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. and if He had no desire to sin why would He sin even though by His free will He could?

 

[GeneZ]

​

Hello @GeneZ,

'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)

I am certain.
God has said it, I believe it.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

First learn what God is saying before you believe it.

What do you believe about Genesis 2:7?

 

[civic]

As God He could not sin.
As Man the potential was allowed to be there, so He could be tested.

Why tested? So every trick in the book could be thrown at Him.
Why that?
So He could pioneer the Faith that overcomes the world, the Devil, and man's desires.

He suffered until He perfected the way (of faith) we are now to walk in.
If we learn sound (correct) doctrine, and are correctable when we realize we were mistaken?
And, walk in Truth?
We will become an overcomer in Christ. Not all believers do.

And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter ​

of our faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand ​

of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary ​

and lose heart. Hebrews 12:1b-3​

​

Within what manner of living did He have to pioneer the way and to perfect our faith?

​

​

During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears ​

to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son ​

though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the ​

source of eternal salvation for all who obey him." Hebrews 5:7-9​

That was Jesus the man who suffered. He had to make himself to be as a man.

For what reason? ...

As God He could not be tempted.
As God he could not suffer.
As God he would not have to learn anything.

That is why He had to make Himself be as a "man."
As Adam was created, Jesus was born!

To make himself to be as a man he gave up his right to his power of Deity done in agreement with the Father to do so. (Philippians 2:6-8)

He became the pioneer and prototype for the spiritual life God wants every Christian to become by grace.


In Christ.......

Question: "Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

Question: "Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

Note what was said please...

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.


God is not only - not capable of sinning. God can not even be tempted!

Where was Jesus then? Being God? Or being as a man? He was being tempted!

Jesus had to be temptable to face what it is we need to overcome for him to show the way to overcome it for ourselves. ...

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin." Hebrew 4:15


He had no sin nature. Yet He was tempted in every way, but never sinned.
Adam was without a sin nature before he fell. He, like Jesus, was able to be tempted.

Problem is...
Once you get a sin nature, its your own self (sin nature) that adds to what can tempt you.

Adam's temptation was from the outside. Not from within.. No sin nature.
Likewise... Jesus was tempted from external causes. Not from within himself. No sin nature.

Now if Jesus was functioning as God? Believers could have no author and perfecter of our faith!

For that reason the one who overcame all temptations could not have been operating in the realm of being God who can not be tempted.
If you are God? There would be no need for him to overcome and create the faith to overcome and demonstrate and *prove* it works.

How could he know that the faith he was to perfect would overcome sin and evil? If he had no sense of the effects of temptation?
He had to not function as God while he was on earth. He could know by faith who he really was and where he came from.. But, He could not experience who he is as God...

 

[praise_yeshua]

What do you mean by that?

That the blood of Jesus Christ is currently "alive" somewhere. You know... like on the mercy seat in heaven? I've heard several different claims but they equal "Eternal living blood".....

 

[civic]

Note what was said please...

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.


God is not only - not capable of sinning. God can not even be tempted!

Where was Jesus then? Being God? Or being as a man? He was being tempted!

Jesus had to be temptable to face what it is we need to overcome for him to show the way to overcome it for ourselves. ...

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin." Hebrew 4:15


He had no sin nature. Yet He was tempted in every way, but never sinned.
Adam was without a sin nature before he fell. He, like Jesus, was able to be tempted.

Problem is...
Once you get a sin nature, its your own self (sin nature) that adds to what can tempt you.

Adam's temptation was from the outside. Not from within.. No sin nature.
Likewise... Jesus was tempted from external causes. Not from within himself. No sin nature.

Now if Jesus was functioning as God? Believers could have no author and perfecter of our faith!

For that reason the one who overcame all temptations could not have been operating in the realm of being God who can not be tempted.
If you are God? There would be no need for him to overcome and create the faith to overcome and demonstrate and *prove* it works.

How could he know that the faith he was to perfect would overcome sin and evil? If he had no sense of the effects of temptation?
He had to not function as God while he was on earth. He could know by faith who he really was and where he came from.. But, He could not experience who he is as God...

Fallacy alert. The same word for tempt is test in the Greek. God was tested 100’s of times in the OT just like Jesus in the NT.

 

[GeneZ]

That the blood of Jesus Christ is currently "alive" somewhere. You know... like on the mercy seat in heaven? I've heard several different claims but they equal "Eternal living blood".....

You are referring to his physical blood?

You are talking about Catholic dogma that certain fundy groups claim as well.

 

[GeneZ]

Fallacy alert. The same word for tempt is test in the Greek. God was tested 100’s of times in the OT just like Jesus in the NT.

Tested in what way? A math exam?

 

[GeneZ]

Fallacy alert. The same word for tempt is test in the Greek. God was tested 100’s of times in the OT just like Jesus in the NT.

Fallacy alert should be sent to all the translators who used "tempted."

Was not Adam tested? Did not Satan test Jesus in the wilderness?

What was your point?

 

[GeneZ]

Fallacy alert. The same word for tempt is test in the Greek. God was tested 100’s of times in the OT just like Jesus in the NT.

By saying that you avoided all the valid things I said.....

Why?

 

[sawdust]

Adam didn’t represent Christ it’s the opposite. He became man to do what Adam was incapable of doing. In theology we call this Impeccability. Adam was peccable. God is impeccable. Jesus Person is Divine, not human which is the heresy known as nestorianism.

Who said Adam was incapable of obeying God? Either Christ was born as Adam was created (ie fully human) or He had an advantage that Adam did not have and therefore Adam could not be held accountable. Unlike us, Adam and Eve did not have a sin nature.

Jesus was both divine and human. During the incarnation He functioned only from His humanity. If He functioned from His deity (ie. using His own power as God) He would have been disqualified as a man. He had to live on the exact same basis we live today, that is by grace in the power of the Spirit working through faith. He set the standard for our way of living.

 

[sawdust]

Things that are peccable.... surprise.... SIN.

Especially peccable things that have no experience nor knowledge of good and evil.

That is a description of how we are born. It does not describe Adam as he was created. We are born devoid of spiritual capacity (unregenerate and cut off from God) and have another law at work in our flesh (sin nature). Adam was most definitely not created like that.