praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You don't need to try and speak for me. Why do you insist on doing this?
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
- Start date
You don't need to try and speak for me. Why do you insist on doing this?
... extends love to the unlovable and forgives and reconciles IN CHRIST. This is God's justice for He will not compromise His integrity. He will not lay aside His justice just because there are those who don't like the way he deals with circumstances.
You overlooked that I said grace and mercy is extended to the extent of forgiveness and reconciliation. How much grace and mercy do you think those in the lake of fire will enjoy or even those who willingly reject the Lord in the here and now.
I don't make love subservient to justice. I am the one who said love and justice cannot be divided, they are on equal footing. God is love, God is just. All He does is in accordance with the fullness of His nature.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Why must Christ die? Notice the words of the writer of Hebrews.
Heb 9:16 For where there is a will, the death of the one who made it must be proven.
Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it carries no force while the one who made it is alive.
Much different than the appeal to Justice requiring the death of Christ that some insist upon....
Heb 9:16 For where there is a will, the death of the one who made it must be proven.
Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it carries no force while the one who made it is alive.
Much different than the appeal to Justice requiring the death of Christ that some insist upon....
But that's just it, I wasn't saying anything about keeping the Law.
It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in me. We are to mature to the fullness of Christ. It is not His deity we are to mature to (we cannot be God), but His humanity. Ergo, what ever is applicable to our humanity is applicable to Christ in His humanity. As Deity (the Son of God), He was never in jeopardy of displeasing the Father but he had to live by faith (in His humanity) for none can please God apart from faith. The Father made no exception for the humanity of Christ in regards to this rule. He was made righteous through faith in the word the same way any human is made righteous through faith in the word. It is why Christ always held the word in such high esteem. He honoured the Father in every thought, word and deed.
We now have the perfect righteousness of Christ because we have His perfect faith. This is positional truth. We must now work out that salvation in this life and make it our own. This we do by grace in the filling of the Spirit through faith in the word. Nothing to do with Keeping the law or even keeping rules and regulations of men but by trusting the word of God.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You make love subservient to justice because you insist that God must first establish Justice before love can be expressed.
I didn't overlook anything. What you claim does not match the evidence from Scripture.
God committed His love toward us that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Hell is only justified in the rejection of Christ. Condemnation only comes from rejecting the Atonement.
The law doesn't even Eternally condemn sinners. It simply establishes death. Eternal condemnation comes from rejecting the Atonement.
He didn't forgive murderers and thieves. He put them to death in the body of Christ. That is how He kept His word and made it right.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
1. You are trying to separate the Personhood of Jesus Christ.
2. You are creating jeopardy in the humanity of Jesus Christ. God never plans anything that stands in jeopardy. This is very definition of Sovergnity. Success in the Atonement was never in jeopardy. This denies the very nature of God.
3. The Incarnation isn't established in faith. It is established in the very power of God. Is there anything too hard for God? Apparently, success is too hard for God when you establish jeopardy in the Incarnation.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Will is an essential aspect of the nature of God. The freedom of God to do whatsoever He pleases. It is the Character of God that defines what God wills.
When God incompletely made man in His image in Adam, the goal was a willing servant. To establish the willing servant, God expressed His very nature in the Atonement. The Incarnation relative to the will of man was never tainted in the Incarnation.
I never said love cannot be expressed before justice. I said love cannot be expressed to the fullness of reconciliation and eternal life until justice is done.
When were you reconciled to God, before or after you believed in Christ?
Why did the OT saints go to Sheol and have to wait for the Cross before going to heaven? It was not due to the lack of love on God's part.
The reality remains though, grace is given in measure.
James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It think I mentioned to you before, correct me if I'm wrong... that you believe in a reactionary Atonement. That God didn't plan the Atonement before the world began. If you believe God planned the Atonement before the world began, then you are making love subservient to justice.
The death of the one who made the promise of Eternal life before the world began is a requirement. No life without the will/testament being executed by the death of the One who made the promise. This was planned and executed in love.
It is actually God loving Himself in the Son. The Bride of Christ gaining Unity in "one flesh" with His Bride. God pleasing Himself in the willing servant. The self sufficiency of God.
I am not separating His personhood. He functioned as a man only in the Incarnation. He could have changed the stones to bread from His own power as the Son of God. You and I could never do that. We would have to rely on the Father to provide such a miracle. Yet, even though Jesus as God could change the stones, He didn't but relied on the Father's will. Jesus, even though being God refused to function as God, hence all the rules that applied to being human also applied to Him. The only difference between His humanity and ours is He was without sin.
You're creating jeopardy in us for we cannot mature to the fullness of the Son if we have to become as God in function.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You are denying the power of God Innate to the Person of Jesus Christ. The Incarnation did not remove the power of God Innate to Christ. It was hidden from view. It was always there. The Divinity of Christ was never diminished in the Incarnation.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Whether sons, servants, friends, slaves.... We are never above Christ in rank. I didn't see how I'm creating jeopardy here.
Yes you mentioned this before but what you have said here sounds different and isn't making sense to me.
I believe God desired to share His life (eternal life) with creation. The Cross, devised in eternity before the foundation of the world and executed in time, manifests the love of God will not compromise with sin and hence we see both His love and justice in operation before man is created for this is the nature of God.
You are not reading what I'm writing. Here once again .....
How can you say I have said the Incarnation removed the power of God from Him?
Would it have been clearer for you if I had said God the Son instead of the Son of God?
It seems to me you think every human being would have disobeyed God if they had all been created at the same time and in the same manner as Adam. Is this what you think?
civic
Well-known member
Every one would of disobeyed God. We would of been no different than adam.
Really? Why do you think that?
civic
Well-known member
adam was representative of every man. All would of fallen to the same temptation. The unregenerate man is no match for the evil one.
and the proof is that you still sin even with the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. so the proof is all have sinned. there was only One who was sinless who is the same One who defeated sin, death and the devil on the cross.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
We are justified by His blood. There's (basically) that word you folks are struggling with.
