Transmitting The Fallen Nature

He only began to scream out in agony when our sins were being poured on Him.
"My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!!"


Being cut off from God was the Most horrible torture for Him.
He endured the torture of men easily in comparison.



If someone here wishes to claim he was not cut off from God?

Then Jesus was lying?

"My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!!"

Our sins he became on the Cross! God had to cut Himself off!
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us,
that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
2 Corinthians 5:21

Our sins he became on the Cross!

Stop being ruled by your emotions! Stick with the Word!

In Christ .......
 
No. I compared Him to you.

I wouldn't kill my children for disobeying me. Especially not for the reason you'd kill your own.
Unless you believe like those who worshiped pagan gods as they demanded that type of justice hence the pagan sacrifice of children as we read in the OT with Molech. This is the exact same mentality PSA teaches. It’s pagan to the core and the exact opposite of the God of the Bible. It’s I dysfunctional god instead of the Tri- Unity of God.
It’s actually anti Trinitarian by definition.
 
This is the exact same mentality PSA teaches.
GOD didn't kill Jesus for us since Jesus is our God.
GOD had a system of justice and restitution in mind at creation as the best way to redeem sinners if any of HIS family went that way.

GOD didn't say if you sin we will kill Jesus: GOD said to those who put their faith in HIM as their saviour that if you sin I, your GOD, will die in your place to save you from eternal death. For those who repudiated HIM as their saviour HE said, go now into the eternal death you have chosen.

I do not suggest I know anything about how His death saves me from the legal and natural consequences of my choice to be sinful but I trust that it does. Fully and reverently...
 
GOD didn't kill Jesus for us since Jesus is our God.
GOD had a system of justice and restitution in mind at creation as the best way to redeem sinners if any of HIS family went that way.

GOD didn't say if you sin we will kill Jesus: GOD said to those who put their faith in HIM as their saviour that if you sin I, your GOD, will die in your place to save you from eternal death. For those who repudiated HIM as their saviour HE said, go now into the eternal death you have chosen.

I do not suggest I know anything about how His death saves me from the legal and natural consequences of my choice to be sinful but I trust that it does. Fully and reverently...

The work of our Atonement/Atoner

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

It is the Eternal nature of the Atoner, Jesus Christ, who establishes Eternal life for who believe Him. (Faithful)
 
Last edited:
@praise_yeshua
If you don't mind, I would like to delay our conversation for a few days as I will be back home soon and back on my PC. It will make it easier for me to set out my answer to the various segments of you argument in a more relative manner as well as giving me access to my full complement of resources.

🙂

Grace and peace
 
While that is true... It was not the case.

It was His soul (humanity) that was separated from God.
His Deity was grieved, like the Holy Spirit is grieved in a believer who is thinking outside of truth.

His body gave up. To declare His soul being separated from God is to destroy the Unity of the Hypostatic Union. He was simply separated from His fleshly body. The remainder only "tasted" of death.

Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

There is a distinct difference in humanity between body and soul.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
His body gave up. To declare His soul being separated from God is to destroy the Unity of the Hypostatic Union. He was simply separated from His fleshly body. The remainder only "tasted" of death.

Why was that? He never sinned personally.

He was separated because of our sins..... Not his own!

If he sinned personally while enduring the ordeal of bearing our sins?
Then the hypostatic union would have been broken.

Its like when a Christian commits adultery, or fornication.
The Holy Spirit does not leave him. He remains in him in a state of being grieved.
When he sins, the fellowship between the soul and Holy Spirit is broken.. But, not the union.

The Christian can not lose the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Hebrews 13:5

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have,
because God has said,

“Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.”




grace and peace......
 
His body gave up. To declare His soul being separated from God is to destroy the Unity of the Hypostatic Union. He was simply separated from His fleshly body. The remainder only "tasted" of death.

Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

There is a distinct difference in humanity between body and soul.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Yes there are many misunderstandings here with the Trinity and HU.
 
No. I compared Him to you.

I wouldn't kill my children for disobeying me. Especially not for the reason you'd kill your own.

This is where emotionalism can make a believer blinded to the Truth and declaring himself to be more righteous than God Himself.

1 John 5:16-17


If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life.
I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should
pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."


.........
 
Last edited:
The 2 natures in Christ. Jesus is a Divine Person with a human nature assumed at the Incarnation and forever remains both God and man, human and divine.

"Hypostatic Union" would have been what anyone coming to this forum have found helpful in following your post.

Try Googling "HU," and see how it adds even more to the confusion.
 
"Hypostatic Union" would have been what anyone coming to this forum have found helpful in following your post.

Try Googling "HU," and see how it adds even more to the confusion.
Fair enough I assumed you knew what it meant, my fault.
 
"Hypostatic Union" would have been what anyone coming to this forum have found helpful in following your post.

Try Googling "HU," and see how it adds even more to the confusion.
Here is something I developed on CARM over a decade ago from debating on the Trinity forum.



Hypostatic Union

1.
Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).



We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.

In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same.
 

This is where emotionalism can make a believer blinded to the Truth and declaring himself to be more righteous than God Himself.

1 John 5:16-17


If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life.
I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should
pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."


.........

There is no righteousness to be found in killing your own offspring because they disobeyed you. It is unbelief that damns.

I bet your children cursed you. Did you kill them?

I don't claim any righteousness. You have a poor view of what righteousness is.

It has long amazed me how man can love and forgive their own children regardless of their actions or "saying they're sorry".... and it is impossible for God to do the same.

Do you remember the words of Christ while He was dying.... do you see the reason for His forgiveness?

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO....... There is even innocence in unbelief.

1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

You have a poor view of the Character of God. He is not challenged by sin.
 
Back
Top Bottom