civic
Active Member
So Jesus had sinful flesh ?
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
- Start date
Dizerner
Active Member
Physical flesh isn't sinful was my point, if you read the actual posts.
GeneZ
Active Member
NOOOOO! Jesus had no human father!
His flesh was born as Adam's flesh originally was before Adam fell.
Hence, Jesus was the 'second Adam.'
Born as Adam had been created from the hand of God.
Genesis 3:15 tells us ....
I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed:
he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:15)
God was indicating that the "seed of the woman" (ovum) does not pass down the sin nature in the flesh!After man fell, man in his fallen state became an expression that was in the image of Satan.
We were all at one time children of the devil. (Ephesians 2:3)
In that sense fallen men are figurately Satan's seed/children. Yet?
With the woman's seed? Her ovum?
God was speaking in the literal sense. The Lord was stating that the woman's ovum was without defect to cause the sin nature to be passed down. That is why Jesus could not have a human father! For Adam, being representative of all males, the human father passes down the sin nature via the male sperm.
Jesus was not sinless because Mary was a virgin. Mary could have been a woman if ill repute and Jesus still sinless.
Because the woman's ovum does not carry the defective genes that produce the sin nature.
Mary was a virgin as a sign indicating that Jesus had no human father. Not to mention, it was to be seen as a miracle.
God knew we would figure it out by His grace...
grace and peace ................
Dizerner
Active Member
Women have physical DNA just as much as men.
Jesus was the seed of David, so he had actual physical DNA that traced back to David.
Yes, but they don't pass on the "other law" (Rom.7:23) that is in the flesh that causes us to die or be susceptible to disease and corruption.
Dizerner
Active Member
I don't there is a case that can be made that the female DNA is immune to disease.
Although, females do tend to have a stronger immune system.
Not sure what you are saying here but it is not about the state of male DNA versus female DNA, rather what is passed on from male or female. There is a law at work in our bodies that corrupts it's workings as God originally intended for them to work. That "law" is what we call the sin nature. We inherited it from our fathers. Christ had no human father, therefore that "law" was not passed on to him. I suspect it is something missing from the DNA as the root meaning of the word sin means "to miss".
Dizerner
Active Member
To quote you, "Not sure what you are saying here."
It seems you are conflating the spiritual with the physical.
The two work in conjunction. Man's base problem is spiritual but that has an effect upon the physical. Adam's death in the garden was spiritual but it's effect would see him die physically.
Like I said earlier, babies die and they do so because they have inherited another law that works in the flesh, not because they have committed any personal sin of their own.
Spiritual realties have tangible effects in the physical realm.
Dizerner
Active Member
I would disagree with this.
The soul that sins shall die.
Not, "the soul that sins shall cause innocent people to die."
So you have changed your mind now? The baby that dies has committed some sin of their own and not been condemned to death because of Adam's sin?
Dizerner
Active Member
Excuse me?
Name one place I ever said a baby was sinless...
You must have me confused with another poster.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Yeah. It really is an ridiculous argument. Culpability is an essential aspect of any sense of justice.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
The man is not without the woman. There were countless men in the ancestry of Mary.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Ability to sin doesn't = "sinful". In theology we call this "peccable"
Dizerner
Active Member
What you all who deny the sin nature need to understand, is sin is not something that requires mental intelligence.
Sinful attitudes are a spiritual emanation of the heart.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Adam did not have the "Spirit of God" living in him. God fellowshipped with Adam in the garden. To claim spiritual death for Adam is ridiculous.
I haven't confused you, this was my point. As far as I remember our conversation, you and I agree we are born sinners therefore whose sin condemned us?
It was indeed another soul who sinned that caused innocent people to die. The only reason we didn't remain innocent is because those here grew up to commit our own sins.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So Adam was sinful when He was formed? If what you say is true, then Adam MUST have been sinful when he was formed.
It wasn't God's spirit that was affected. Adam's spirit died, that is, returned to God who gave it. This is why we must be born of the Spirit. (Jn.3:3-6)
Either Adam died in the day he ate or God lied and he died many, many years later and if he didn't die physically, then he died spiritually.
