Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
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Olde Tymer
Well-known member
~
A normal human body is somewhat unglamorous.
●. Phil 3:21 . . He will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body
The Word didn't come into the world with a glorified body. Had he done so, then it
would've been difficult to crucify him 'cause the glorified body is immortal. (1Cor
15:51-54) No, he was born with a lowly body the same as all other Jews.
● Heb 2:16-18 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way;
Ergo: his brothers' Jewish bodies aren't divine, rather, they're quite vile.
● Rom 8:3 . . For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God
did: by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
FAQ: How was Jesus able to remain so perfectly innocent while in the world with a
vile body?
REPLY: Jesus had some advantages.
1) He was the ultimate theophany. (John 1:1-3 & John 1:14)
2) He was equipped with supernatural proclivities and predilections. (Isa 11:1-2)
3) Though the Word came into the world with sinful flesh, he didn't come with the
sinful nature common to all other men. (1John 1:1-2 & 1John 3:9) viz; it wasn't
necessary for God's ultimate theophany to be fully sinful in order to be fully Man--
there was a time when Adam was fully Man without being fully sinful so I know
from his experience that it's possible.
FAQ: But isn't the sinful nature inherited from one's natural parents?
REPLY: The source of mankind's sinful nature isn't natural; the source is supernatural.
If you recall, Eve was constructed with material taken from Adam's body. But she
was already fully formed and fully sentient prior to him tasting the forbidden fruit;
so it was too late for Adam to pass anything on to her by reproduction. That takes
Eve's daddy out of the equation.
And when Eve tasted the fruit, nothing happened: she remained just as shameless
in the buff as before. So that takes the chemistry of the fruit out of the equation.
The logical source of the sinful nature is the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil & Satan (Rev
12:9) He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected. (Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and
Eph 2:2) So in order to keep Jesus free of the sinful nature it was just simply a matter of
keeping the Serpent's paws off him.
FAQ: Why didn't God keep the Devil's paws off me too so i could come into the world
free of the sinful nature? Why only Jesus; and how does God justify that kind of
favoritism?
REPLY: Well; I cannot answer with confidence; but I suspect the key to this mystery is
tied to the characteristics of a theophany; roughly defined as a deity in human form.
(e.g. Gen 18:1-33, Gen 32:24-30 & Ex 24:9-11)
NOTE: The Word's flesh is a bewildering theophany. Whereas the other theophanies have
no apparent biological connection to the sphere of this world's human life; Jesus is in a
pedigree with Adam.
_
A normal human body is somewhat unglamorous.
●. Phil 3:21 . . He will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body
The Word didn't come into the world with a glorified body. Had he done so, then it
would've been difficult to crucify him 'cause the glorified body is immortal. (1Cor
15:51-54) No, he was born with a lowly body the same as all other Jews.
● Heb 2:16-18 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way;
Ergo: his brothers' Jewish bodies aren't divine, rather, they're quite vile.
● Rom 8:3 . . For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God
did: by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
FAQ: How was Jesus able to remain so perfectly innocent while in the world with a
vile body?
REPLY: Jesus had some advantages.
1) He was the ultimate theophany. (John 1:1-3 & John 1:14)
2) He was equipped with supernatural proclivities and predilections. (Isa 11:1-2)
3) Though the Word came into the world with sinful flesh, he didn't come with the
sinful nature common to all other men. (1John 1:1-2 & 1John 3:9) viz; it wasn't
necessary for God's ultimate theophany to be fully sinful in order to be fully Man--
there was a time when Adam was fully Man without being fully sinful so I know
from his experience that it's possible.
FAQ: But isn't the sinful nature inherited from one's natural parents?
REPLY: The source of mankind's sinful nature isn't natural; the source is supernatural.
If you recall, Eve was constructed with material taken from Adam's body. But she
was already fully formed and fully sentient prior to him tasting the forbidden fruit;
so it was too late for Adam to pass anything on to her by reproduction. That takes
Eve's daddy out of the equation.
And when Eve tasted the fruit, nothing happened: she remained just as shameless
in the buff as before. So that takes the chemistry of the fruit out of the equation.
The logical source of the sinful nature is the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil & Satan (Rev
12:9) He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected. (Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and
Eph 2:2) So in order to keep Jesus free of the sinful nature it was just simply a matter of
keeping the Serpent's paws off him.
FAQ: Why didn't God keep the Devil's paws off me too so i could come into the world
free of the sinful nature? Why only Jesus; and how does God justify that kind of
favoritism?
REPLY: Well; I cannot answer with confidence; but I suspect the key to this mystery is
tied to the characteristics of a theophany; roughly defined as a deity in human form.
(e.g. Gen 18:1-33, Gen 32:24-30 & Ex 24:9-11)
NOTE: The Word's flesh is a bewildering theophany. Whereas the other theophanies have
no apparent biological connection to the sphere of this world's human life; Jesus is in a
pedigree with Adam.
_
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e v e
Well-known member
the body and the soul are not the same...
true, in Eden, it was, since npsh means both..
but after the fall, we were not longer in our paradise,
and the body was not the one He made anymore...
so now, the body and the soul work against each other..
We live in a mechanical reality now , therefore the theme of a “dimension” other than than this one seems so foreign to us...
...Paul mentions how we see "as if through a mirror," as an excellent example of this...
the body is flesh, which cannot enter paradise...
the soul He made is not depraved,
though she is quite in a bad state and because of that flesh, cannot hear Him..
so they are not the same, and even if He came into this fallen place,
He Himself was not a sinner...
the term sinner is about this body...
The point is to die to it (as this world and its type of foreign nature)
and to stay out of that mindset and its needs and wants all we can...
and instead, follow Christ.
the nature of the soul from God cannot be depraved since He made it...
so there again, calvin was wrong @civic.
but after the fall, we were then in a foreign situation, the death God warned
of, and our flesh warred us... and yes, often people Identity with it,
with the carnal flesh and its mind, and therefore,
someone like calvin concluded that the soul herself was the depraved one,
in his T from his tulip.
If that was so, God would not fight so much for us to get each of us back...
Nowhere do we read flesh in itself is sin.
Christ bore our flesh and there was nothing sinful about his body
Olde Tymer
Well-known member
~
"So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For
in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the
members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a
prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am!
Who will rescue me from this body of death?" (Rom 7:21-24)
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending
his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"
(Rom 8:3)
_
"So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For
in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the
members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a
prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am!
Who will rescue me from this body of death?" (Rom 7:21-24)
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending
his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"
(Rom 8:3)
_
Flesh has various meaning depending on the context . In Romans 8:3 the reference is to humanity which is sinful
I agree...a gnostic interpretation of this fallen sphere of life at best.
This world is fallen because only the fallen are sent here to abide. The fallen nature enslaved to the addictive power of sin is only achieved by a free will decision to rebel against GOD, not by anything created by the will of GOD HIMself.
Yes Gnosticism holds flesh is evil
e v e
Well-known member
the real oxymoron is that cherished notions written while in a cursed state and disconnected from God, could in any way be 'inspired' or coming from God.
The OT fathers cursed themselves. In that state, words He did not say were written down. Consider that His words never needed to be written before...when God was still speaking to them. But they did NOT listen Him nor obey Him and did not listen to His prophets either.
These written down corrupt texts are the source of any later KJV sorcery text.
The OT fathers cursed themselves. In that state, words He did not say were written down. Consider that His words never needed to be written before...when God was still speaking to them. But they did NOT listen Him nor obey Him and did not listen to His prophets either.
These written down corrupt texts are the source of any later KJV sorcery text.
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e v e
Well-known member
So anyway, opinions about 'God must have created this corrupt earth since the kjv says so'... are sorcery. Eden which He created is not this world. the real gnosticism is believing God created this earth. Throwing around 'isms' to accuse is really pointless unless you examine each point of what is meant by the ism...and every source. It's an ad hom type dismissal when there is no desire or care to enquire.
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koberstein
Active member
You are TOTALLY WRONG. There is no corrupt scroll. God will and has punished sinners when there is no redemption. I am quoting from the Tanakh the mesoretic manuscripts. Redemption is the scarlet thread that is woven through the Tanakh and into the B'rit Hadashah (New Testament).
e v e
Well-known member
those texts are corrupt.
koberstein
Active member
No you are corrupt. There is no Essau scroll.
Why spread falsehoods and heresy? Does that play into your false narrative and agenda?
e v e
Well-known member
my only desire, if that is what you do not like, is that any day now God's souls are meeting Him on the clouds and He will restore us to Eden paradise, which is His covenant with us.
Are you claiming the old covenant prophets are corrupted?
koberstein
Active member
So what scripture is this?
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koberstein
Active member
BSWe will return to our (promised) land, which the OT fathers failed to, having cursed themselves and gone into captivity ..
Any day now.
I never heard of it but found another forum where a poster claimed Esau got his hands on scripture and corrupted them. I think @koberstein called it.
koberstein
Active member
If I and Google can't find it then it doesn't exist. Besides, this person that brought this up must be a Unitarian, because I was working with one years ago and he made similar comments.
