Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[sawdust]

That is what has been sorely missing here.....
Nothing given to grow in knowledge of God's Word with.

Its been... "go to this page and read through all the pages."

Or, worse yet..."what you say does not agree with this creed."

Its like all the teachers have left the room...

It seems to me the biggest problem is they cannot seem to separate being from function. Christ is always being two natures in one person but that doesn't mean He has to function as both natures simultaneously always. The Incarnation proves that. The fact Christ didn't know the day or hour shows how His own Deity can withhold information from His humanity.

 

[GeneZ]

It seems to me the biggest problem is they cannot seem to separate being from function. Christ is always being two natures in one person but that doesn't mean He has to function as both natures simultaneously always. The Incarnation proves that. The fact Christ didn't know the day or hour shows how His own Deity can withhold information from His humanity.

​

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; ​

yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42​

Some here are not willing to accept that by faith.

Its a reality that God wants a believer to know!
God has two natures that remain as two different natures, yet in union.

Why? because God explains Himself perfectly to men by also being a man in function!

grace and peace.....

 

[GeneZ]

It seems to me the biggest problem is they cannot seem to separate being from function. Christ is always being two natures in one person but that doesn't mean He has to function as both natures simultaneously always. The Incarnation proves that. The fact Christ didn't know the day or hour shows how His own Deity can withhold information from His humanity.

Christ is always being God being in total identification with his human nature...

And, his human nature is always representing God perfectly to men.

His human nature is the only Soul God absolutely trusts to reveal God to a soul all that could ever be known by a soul, about God - for all eternity!

In other words? Anything we shall ever want to know about God? The answer is to be found in Christ.
And, all God ever wants to reveal to man? Is the be revealed through the Soul of Christ!

Christ makes God knowable to man! (John 1:18)


grace and peace.......... !

 

[synergy]

Without Nestorius having the courage to break away from dogma of the Roman Catholic church?
Many more today would most likely be praying to Mary as the mother of God.

So.. he was not all bad.

His problem was simply that he did not how to better explain the two natures of Jesus.
But, he was able to see by means of studying the Scriptures to see that Jesus does in fact have two natures in union....

Many in the Vatican who adored Mary worship hated Nestorius and banished him for getting the people potentially
one step closer to what was to eventually be known (and finally developed into) the understanding of he hypostatic union.

FYI... I studied about Nestorius around 1981 while in Bible college.

Nestorius did not have a well developed understanding on how the two natures of Christ worked.
For how could he? In his day he was pioneering the concept.

So, please. Show a little mercy for a brave man who was not afraid to disagree with the Pope .
He could have been burned at the stake in those days.

In Christ ............

The problem with Nestorius is that he was promoting the heresy that Jesus embodied two persons (Dyoprosopism). That was and still is sheer blasphemy. Nestorius was attempting to falsely accuse Jesus of having a Dual Personality mental disorder, akin to Schizophrenia.

And with that in mind, he attempted to tear down Mary's position from having given birth to the Word of God (Theotokos) down to having given birth to a mere human person (Christotokos). This was just a byproduct of his Dyoprosopism heretical view.

You can argue that he got Christ's dual natures right but that does not absolve him from getting Christ's single God Personhood hideously wrong.

 

[civic]

That settles it?

Don't lift a finger to give any Scriptural justification for your conclusion?

Can't say I learned something from you on that one.

False dilemma fallacy is also known as false dichotomy, false binary, and “either-or” fallacy. It is the fallacy of presenting only two choices, outcomes, or sides to an argument as the only possibilities, when more are available.

 

[synergy]

​

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; ​

yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42​

Some here are not willing to accept that by faith.

Its a reality that God wants a believer to know!
God has two natures that remain as two different natures, yet in union.

Why? because God explains Himself perfectly to men by also being a man in function!

grace and peace.....

You keep mentioning Christ's dual nature. That's not where your misunderstanding lies. Your misunderstanding lies in the fact that Christ is one and only one Person and that Person is a God Person, the Word of God. Therefore, any seperation you promote is between the Christ God Person and the Father God Person and that is blasphemy.

 

[sawdust]

False dilemma fallacy is also known as false dichotomy, false binary, and “either-or” fallacy. It is the fallacy of presenting only two choices, outcomes, or sides to an argument as the only possibilities, when more are available.

When it comes to reality there are only two choices. Something is either real or it is not.

 

[synergy]

It seems to me the biggest problem is they cannot seem to separate being from function. Christ is always being two natures in one person but that doesn't mean He has to function as both natures simultaneously always. The Incarnation proves that. The fact Christ didn't know the day or hour shows how His own Deity can withhold information from His humanity.

The biggest problem is that you don’t fully grasp the fact that Christ is one and only one God Person. He has 2 natures but he is one God Person. Therefore, any seperation you promote is between the Christ God Person and the Father God Person and that is anti-Trinitarian blasphemy.

 

[sawdust]

You keep mentioning Christ's dual nature. That's not where your misunderstanding lies. Your misunderstanding lies in the fact that Christ is one and only one Person and that Person is a God Person, the Word of God. Therefore, any seperation you promote is between the Christ God Person and the Father God Person and that is blasphemy.

Then explain how God died on the Cross.

 

[sawdust]

The biggest problem is that you don’t fully grasp the fact that Christ is one and only one God Person. He has 2 natures but he is one God Person. Therefore, any seperation you promote is between the Christ God Person and the Father God Person and that is anti-Trinitarian blasphemy.

And it has been explained the separation is not between Deity and Deity but between Deity and humanity "in function, not in being". Your inability to understand how that can be so is what prevents you from comprehending properly what is said.

Have a nice day.

 

[synergy]

Then explain how God died on the Cross.

What is the definition of death? Seperation of body and soul, right? Christ's human nature underwent seperation between his human soul and human body, both part of his human nature. Death did happen and was confirmed in the Bible.

 

[synergy]

And it has been explained the separation is not between Deity and Deity but between Deity and humanity "in function, not in being". Your inability to understand how that can be so is what prevents you from comprehending properly what is said.

Have a nice day.

Only by denying that Christ is a single God Person can you say that there was a separation between "Diety and humanity". That puts you right smack in the middle of Nestorianism.

 

[civic]

When it comes to reality there are only two choices. Something is either real or it is not.

Yep and it’s really a prophecy fulfilled and a proclamation He is the Messiah in the Psalm.

And its eisegesis to isolate a verse from the rest of scripture, doctrine, theology and sound teaching. The Father forsaking and abandoning the Son is unsound and unbiblical doctrine.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

The problem with Nestorius is that he was promoting the heresy that Jesus embodied two persons (Dyoprosopism). That was and still is sheer blasphemy. Nestorius was attempting to falsely accuse Jesus of having a Dual Personality mental disorder, akin to Schizophrenia.

And with that in mind, he attempted to tear down Mary's position from having given birth to the Word of God (Theotokos) down to having given birth to a mere human person (Christotokos). This was just a byproduct of his Dyoprosopism heretical view.

You can argue that he got Christ's dual natures right but that does not absolve him from getting Christ's single God Personhood hideously wrong.

I will try again.

Nestorius was able to recognize that Jesus involves two natures in union.
He was pioneering the understanding in a censored world of the RCC.
And, because he was pioneering? Out of ignorance understandably made some mistakes.

Sorry to say. so far, you are being the kind of person who would condemn Christopher Columbus, because he failed to realize he did not find a new route to India, and named American natives - "Indians." Nestorius had some things right that others had been oblivious to.

What is Christianity to you?
Always taking some written test?
Always citing creeds but never expounding the actual verses that are required for others to grow in knowing God's Word?

You keep turning Christianity into semi secular type setting. One of spewing out data you have memorized..... but, having no life!

The Word of God is ALIVE and POWERFUL! (Hebrews 4:12)

Truth is to be living! To be lived in us.

All you keep citing is dry data that is detached from having Life in the Spirit.

Well... you are good at that much. But what you are making to be your source for your self esteem, into wood, hay, and stubble.

We are to know the Word in spiritual intimacy.
Not by taking pride in only knowing things about the Word

 

[GeneZ]

Only by denying that Christ is a single God Person can you say that there was a separation between "Diety and humanity". That puts you right smack in the middle of Nestorianism.

A single person in function?

Yes....

If He wants to be.

In the mean while?
You keep on running from this.

"Saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup ​

from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Luke 22:42​

You keep ignoring that truth whenever its brought up.
When you do that? It makes you look dishonest when you refuse to address it.

You just make believe nothing was said.. And, then continue on with your old, well worn, cherished line of reasoning.

In Christ ........................

 

[civic]

A single person in function?

Yes....

If He wants to be.

In the mean while?
You keep on running from this.

"Saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup ​

from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Luke 22:42​

You keep ignoring that truth whenever its brought up.
When you do that? It makes you look dishonest when you refuse to address it.

You just make believe nothing was said.. And, then continue on with your old, well worn, cherished line of reasoning.

In Christ ........................

His human will came at His conception in the womb of mary when His 2 natures were united. They did not exist prior. The Trinity has 1 will not 3 wills. The Incarnate Son has 2 wills , both a Divine and human will. You do not understand the 2 natures in Christ. You also do not understand the distinction between person and nature.

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

His human will came at His conception in the womb of mary when His 2 natures were united. They did not exist prior. The Trinity has 1 will not 3 wills. The Incarnate Son has 2 wills , both a Divine and human will. You do not understand the 2 natures in Christ. You also do not understand the distinction between person and nature.

hope this helps !!!

Correct. The will is an attribute of nature, not an attribute of person. Otherwise we would be talking about a cazzilion wills.

 

[civic]

Correct. The will is an attribute of nature, not an attribute of person. Otherwise we would be talking about a cazzilion wills.

Correct which is why the 3 Persons in the Trinity share one will/ nature.

 

[synergy]

I will try again.

Nestorius was able to recognize that Jesus involves two natures in union.
He was pioneering the understanding in a censored world of the RCC.
And, because he was pioneering? Out of ignorance understandably made some mistakes.

Sorry to say. so far, you are being the kind of person who would condemn Christopher Columbus, because he failed to realize he did not find a new route to India, and named American natives - "Indians." Nestorius had some things right that others had been oblivious to.

Sorry but Nestorius was a Bishop of the Church who was responsible for the souls of thousands of people. For him to slander Christ with a Schizophrenic-like Dual Personality mental disorder is inexcusable.

What is Christianity to you?
Always taking some written test?
Always citing creeds but never expounding the actual verses that are required for others to grow in knowing God's Word?

You keep turning Christianity into semi secular type setting. One of spewing out data you have memorized..... but, having no life!

Truth is not life to you? You are more content to harbor slanderous Nestorian misconceptions of Christ? Suit yourself.

The Word of God is ALIVE and POWERFUL! (Hebrews 4:12)

Truth is to be living! To be lived in us.

All you keep citing is dry data that is detached from having Life in the Spirit.

Well... you are good at that much. But what you are making to be your source for your self esteem, into wood, hay, and stubble.

We are to know the Word in spiritual intimacy.
Not by taking pride in only knowing things about the Word

The more truth you allow yourself to see, the more mercy do you see from God. For example, your Nestorian view of the truth made you think that God practices fair-weather "withdraw fellowshipping" to those who please him. See how falsehoods destroys trust by distorting the true character of God. Truth is directly connected with God's mercy that encourages trust and gives life.

 

[GeneZ]

You keep mentioning Christ's dual nature. That's not where your misunderstanding lies. Your misunderstanding lies in the fact that Christ is one and only one Person and that Person is a God Person, the Word of God. Therefore, any seperation you promote is between the Christ God Person and the Father God Person and that is blasphemy.

You just slurred your thought to make it look like you had answer.
Jesus is not a "God person."
Jesus is a Person who fully knows God.
To fully know God makes one into something beyond being simply "a person."

I was not promoting any separation of God.
Jesus was revealing some sort of separation potential of wills!

"Yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Luke 22:42​

How many wills does the Trinity have within itself?
As long as Jesus' soul agrees to do the Father's will? There is only one will.

Was Jesus promoting the separation that you are wishing to push on me?

I'm just a messenger.
I did not create the message.


Stop blaming me for the message the Lord gave us to know.
Blaming me acts as a distraction away from you dealing with the fact that your "theology" is deeply flawed.
It needs to be reworked if its to succeed.

And, to answer one of Civic's challenges that he ignored the answer for...

Matthew 4:3-4 reveals Jesus refusing to be God. Even though Satan recognized Jesus as being really God from knowing the Lord prior to the Incarnation..

There is truth yet to be unveiled. But one must drop the lust to dominate others before those truths can find rest in souls that need that truth.