Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[praise_yeshua]

So do you think when Jesus screamed out "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He didn't know what He was talking about? He was mistaken?

He was dying. It was an appeal to life of the flesh leaving His body. It was not an indication of abandonment by the Father.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

He who only ever did what He saw the Father doing and only ever said what He heard from the Father, suddenly didn't have a clue the Father hadn't really forsaken Him?

You seem to be looking for a reason to treat Christ separately than the Father. I never gave this impression.

Or maybe you'll give me the standard answer and Jesus was just quoting Psalm 22. Hell of a time to be quoting poetry don't you think?

I have never used that explanation. Jesus did often appeal to fulfilling the Scriptures that had been written. He even asked John to "suffer it to be so"....

Remember when John told Jesus that he needed to be baptized of Jesus?

I've often teased baptist with this in my life. THE.... "baptizer" was never baptized himself. That should put baptism into perspective for most people.

 

[synergy]

There is some type of personal hang up that your team shares in common.
I have not been able to define it yet because I do not know what kind of personalities you have.

Just the same. It says Jesus was both an expatiation and a propitiation for different reasons.

False. He was an Expiation, not a "Expatiation". No wonder you can't find its definition, you can't even spell it correctly. Try spelling it properly and you'll see what wonders await you.

You have been running with conclusions that apparently have been predetermined by your own personal sensitivities
and dislikes, for words that trigger you.

From your own data it shows Jesus was both a propitiation and an expatiation.

False. My point was not that Jesus was an "expatiation" or even an Expat. I was not saying that he traveled as an Expat. Please spell the word Expiation correctly first. Here is the word again: Expiation. Should I type the word more slowly for you?

What are you trying to get at?
To form your own denomination that you can feel comfortable with yourselves in a spiritual life
that will demand we deny our selves and take up our own cross if we are to follow Him?

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children ​

and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26​

Here come the false accusations because you have no counterarguments whatsoever. Your Ad Hominem attempt is duly noted.

What you are doing to me it sounds like a group of like minded believers wanting to create a way to think that will spare them of what they find offensive in regards to the death of Christ on the Cross. Its tantamount of trying to spare and save your own life from what you find personally offensive about what Jesus needed to suffer in order to save us.

​

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." Matthew 16:25​

It's the dozen of Bible passages that I quoted that are doing that to you. I'm not doing anything to you. I'm just the messenger.

You seem to get outright nasty when someone reveals what you wish to deny about the agony Jesus chose to go through.

Total lie on your part. I'm not denying that Jesus went through agony. Stop resorting to lies in your attempts to appease your non-Biblical views.

He had to bear the punishment that we were deserving in our place as a substitute for us.

I never said anything to the contrary.

Besides ,,, when it gets down to arguing by you putting up walls using titles of theological concepts as the means to justify your stand?
We have gotten far away from knowing chapter and verse as we are supposed to be doing.

I mentioned a dozen Bible passages in my report. You might deny that they are Bible verses but in reality they are. Deal with them.

No growth without chapter and verse. Throwing around names of concepts is silly.
For the other has no way to know if that concept being plastered as a defense is even being understood correctly
by the one trying to use it for his justification. Wasting time.

grace and peace ............

You're just sore because you've been exposed as a Nestorian. Carry on with your Nestorianism if you must....

 

[GeneZ]

yes that human body is not like this one.

He did not create this one.

As the saying goes....

......................................... Adam created a mess.

 

[GeneZ]

He was dying. It was an appeal to life of the flesh leaving His body. It was not an indication of abandonment by the Father.

First of all..

How could his flesh leave his body???

And, why would Jesus equate his flesh with being the Father??????!

Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

 

[GeneZ]

False. He was an Expiation, not a "Expatiation". No wonder you can't find its definition, you can't even spell it correctly. Try spelling it properly and you'll see what wonders await you.

If I really can't spell correctly?
Then why did you even bother to show me my typo?

You apparently like wasting you time if that were that case...

Besides, it was my 'word checker' that used expatiation when I spelled expiation somehow incorrectly.


In the mean while... thanks!

I'll pass it on to my 'word checker' how it triggered your calm and peaceful demeaner that comes by grace from the Lord.
Would not want to trigger Synergy, now would we?

We will know each other by our fruits.


Wishing you a Happy New Year.

 

[synergy]

If I can't spell correctly?
Why did you even bother to show me my typo?

You apparently like wasting you time if that were that case...

Besides, it was my 'word checker' that used expatiation when I spelled expiation somehow incorrectly.


In the mean while... thanks!

I'll pass it on to my 'word checker' how it triggered your calm and peaceful demeaner that comes by grace from the Lord.
Would not want to trigger Synergy, now would we?

We will know each other by our fruits.

I'm sure you would like nothing better than for me to praise you rather than to call you out on your Nestorianism, on your disregarding of Bible verses, on your Ad Hominems and on your lies about me.

So what was it that you were saying about fruits....

 

[sawdust]

He was dying. It was an appeal to life of the flesh leaving His body. It was not an indication of abandonment by the Father.

So once again Jesus saying "why have you forsaken me", doesn't actually mean He was forsaken, He was just in agony and didn't really know what was going on. Sort of like when people hallucinate when in great pain?

If we can't trust Him to be accurate in what He said then, how do we know if He was accurate with all His other words on the Cross?

There is nothing in the Hebrew passage to indicate Christ did not understand what was going on and when He cried out "my God, my God why have you forsaken me" it was because that is exactly what was happening.

You seem to be looking for a reason to treat Christ separately than the Father. I never gave this impression.

I was trying to point out Christ's relationship with the Father was so intimate that every word He said and did was a direct word and action from the Father, yet you want to try and tell us at that one moment when He screamed out about being forsaken? He suddenly had no idea where He stood in that relationship?

I have never used that explanation. Jesus did often appeal to fulfilling the Scriptures that had been written. He even asked John to "suffer it to be so"....

Remember when John told Jesus that he needed to be baptized of Jesus?

I've often teased baptist with this in my life. THE.... "baptizer" was never baptized himself. That should put baptism into perspective for most people.

I'm glad to hear that because I think it is an insult to suggest He is simply repeating what was prophesied instead of understanding He was in fact living Psalm 22.

Jesus did undergo John's baptism but John recognised the baptism he performed was only a shadow of the baptism Christ would give. Christ Himself didn't need to be baptized in the Spirit as He didn't need the five fold ministry that comes with the baptism the Church receives. ie. regeneration, filling, sealing, indwelling and gifting.

However, talking of baptism is getting off the topic.

Either Jesus was screaming a message concerning reality or He was hallucinating/mistaken.

 

[civic]

So once again Jesus saying "why have you forsaken me", doesn't actually mean He was forsaken, He was just in agony and didn't really know what was going on. Sort of like when people hallucinate when in great pain?

If we can't trust Him to be accurate in what He said then, how do we know if He was accurate with all His other words on the Cross?

There is nothing in the Hebrew passage to indicate Christ did not understand what was going on and when He cried out "my God, my God why have you forsaken me" it was because that is exactly what was happening.


I was trying to point out Christ's relationship with the Father was so intimate that every word He said and did was a direct word and action from the Father, yet you want to try and tell us at that one moment when He screamed out about being forsaken? He suddenly had no idea where He stood in that relationship?


I'm glad to hear that because I think it is an insult to suggest He is simply repeating what was prophesied instead of understanding He was in fact living Psalm 22.

Jesus did undergo John's baptism but John recognised the baptism he performed was only a shadow of the baptism Christ would give. Christ Himself didn't need to be baptized in the Spirit as He didn't need the five fold ministry that comes with the baptism the Church receives. ie. regeneration, filling, sealing, indwelling and gifting.

However, talking of baptism is getting off the topic.

Either Jesus was screaming a message concerning reality or He was hallucinating/mistaken.

False dichotomy fallacy

 

[civic]

So once again Jesus saying "why have you forsaken me", doesn't actually mean He was forsaken, He was just in agony and didn't really know what was going on. Sort of like when people hallucinate when in great pain?

If we can't trust Him to be accurate in what He said then, how do we know if He was accurate with all His other words on the Cross?

There is nothing in the Hebrew passage to indicate Christ did not understand what was going on and when He cried out "my God, my God why have you forsaken me" it was because that is exactly what was happening.


I was trying to point out Christ's relationship with the Father was so intimate that every word He said and did was a direct word and action from the Father, yet you want to try and tell us at that one moment when He screamed out about being forsaken? He suddenly had no idea where He stood in that relationship?


I'm glad to hear that because I think it is an insult to suggest He is simply repeating what was prophesied instead of understanding He was in fact living Psalm 22.

Jesus did undergo John's baptism but John recognised the baptism he performed was only a shadow of the baptism Christ would give. Christ Himself didn't need to be baptized in the Spirit as He didn't need the five fold ministry that comes with the baptism the Church receives. ie. regeneration, filling, sealing, indwelling and gifting.

However, talking of baptism is getting off the topic.

Either Jesus was screaming a message concerning reality or He was hallucinating/mistaken.

From the reliable Bible Reference Christian Website which is exactly what I have been teaching for several years now. )

" Another explanation for Jesus' use of these words is the method of naming Scriptures used in Jewish tradition. Books or other writings were often known by their starting words or phrases. Reciting the first statement of this Psalm, then, might have been Jesus pointing to this passage as both encouragement and explanation during His crucifixion. "

Or better yet a proclamation that He is the promised Messiah and this Psalm is being lived out in detail before you.

hope this helps !!!

 

[e v e]

To form your own denomination that you can feel comfortable with

= all denominations. including yours.

this is what happened in the OT...no one listened to the prophets
since instead, listening to the esaus among them
(=wolves in sheep's clothing)
they chose to follow their own ways
it was comfortable..non threatening.. all their families
were used to it..and to follow their own
and history and traditions instead of Listen to God.

 

[e v e]

Jesus had a human body just like he originally created for Adam....

When Adam fell it ceased being what God had created...

it did not just 'cease to be' what God created on its own.
this cannot be sanitized whatsoever..
we are NOT in the body God made.

By pure evil the corruption to this ape body occurred... if you care to know.

 

[sawdust]

False dichotomy fallacy

Your accusations are not helpful. It would be beneficial if you could explain why you think that. As I see it, it is those who want to say Jesus words on the Cross are exactly what He meant except when He says He is forsaken. That is a dichotomy, having one group of words meaning one thing while having another group meaning the opposite. One group is reality while the other is not reality.

 

[e v e]

As the saying goes....

......................................... Adam created a mess.

yes and you are living in it right now,
as are all of us...
this is why He said in prophets
He will destroy this earth and sky.
It's an abomination to Him
and NOT His creation He declared Good.
He declared that BEFORE the fall!

 

[e v e]

ALSO adam did not die.
That is a severe mistranslation/insertion by Esaus

He is the prince of the air... he rules this world along with the demon Nations.
He is the subject of the isaiah chapter often construed to apply to
'lucifer'.

 

[sawdust]

From the reliable Bible Reference Christian Website which is exactly what I have been teaching for several years now. )

" Another explanation for Jesus' use of these words is the method of naming Scriptures used in Jewish tradition. Books or other writings were often known by their starting words or phrases. Reciting the first statement of this Psalm, then, might have been Jesus pointing to this passage as both encouragement and explanation during His crucifixion. "

Or better yet a proclamation that He is the promised Messiah and this Psalm is being lived out in detail before you.

hope this helps !!!

You said it yourself He was living the Psalm not simply reciting poetry as some like to say. And why you are even raising the issue I don't know, as I never mentioned the Psalm with you or hinted you are one that claims it as a recitation piece.

 

[e v e]

IF God had created this body..
why then will we need to be restored into our Resurrection one?
Simple.
This one is not His creation.
He will bring us Home to our Original body and Original eden paradise.
The rest is utter mistranslations On Purpose!

He only speaks once. He spoke His reality into being...
and doesn't need to create something new or different
and 'do over' anything because of what Satan did in the garden.

 

[GeneZ]

I'm sure you would like nothing better than for me to praise you rather than to call you out on your Nestorianism, on your disregarding of Bible verses, on your Ad Hominems and on your lies about me.

So what was it that you were saying about fruits....

Without Nestorius having the courage to break away from dogma of the Roman Catholic church?
Many more today would most likely be praying to Mary as the mother of God.

So.. he was not all bad.

His problem was simply that he did not how to better explain the two natures of Jesus.
But, he was able to see by means of studying the Scriptures to see that Jesus does in fact have two natures in union....

Many in the Vatican who adored Mary worship hated Nestorius and banished him for getting the people potentially
one step closer to what was to eventually be known (and finally developed into) the understanding of he hypostatic union.

FYI... I studied about Nestorius around 1981 while in Bible college.

Nestorius did not have a well developed understanding on how the two natures of Christ worked.
For how could he? In his day he was pioneering the concept.

So, please. Show a little mercy for a brave man who was not afraid to disagree with the Pope .
He could have been burned at the stake in those days.

In Christ ............

 

[GeneZ]

IF God had created this body..
why then will we need to be restored into our Resurrection one?

Our bodies were crucified with Christ. (Gal 2:20)

Our bodies are not going to be "restored."
Lazarus when he walked from his tomb had his body restored, only to die again later.

Our resurrection body will be a total replacement. Not a restoration.

A new body consisting not of dust of this earth like Adam, and even Jesus had.

There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies
is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor,
the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.​

​

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body,
it is raised a spiritual body.​

​

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body." ​

1 Corinthians 15:40-44

 

[GeneZ]

False dichotomy fallacy

That settles it?

Don't lift a finger to give any Scriptural justification for your conclusion?

Can't say I learned something from you on that one.

 

[GeneZ]

Your accusations are not helpful. It would be beneficial if you could explain why you think that.

That is what has been sorely missing here.....
Nothing given to grow in knowledge of God's Word with.

Its been... "go to this page and read through all the pages."

Or, worse yet..."what you say does not agree with this creed."

Its like all the teachers have left the room...