Transmitting The Fallen Nature

GeneZ said:
He is thinking on terms of human justice only.
Not God's justice from God's perspective of perfect Righteousness.

As long as it stays within that realm of human justice there is no reasoning possible.
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Ridiculous commentary. We know God's perspective from the Scriptures. You haven't established what you believe is God's perspective.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Can you provide your definition?

Before you answer... consider.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
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Paul was fighting against the Judaizers who were legalists and misused the Law.
He was dealing with a different matter.
 
sawdust said:
You seem to keep missing that if God had not made right (executed justice), grace and mercy could not be extended, not to the extent of reconciliation and being given eternal life.
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Got to love this. You've made love subservient to justice. Which has been my problem from the beginning.

God doesn't have to love you. It is Grace that extends love to the unlovable.
 
praise_yeshua said:
No he wasn't He was dealing with your claims that righteousness can be established by law......
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The Galatians were gentile believers whom the Judaizers were trying to infiltrate by getting them to live under the Law.



You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Galatians 3:1-2

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:6-9
 
GeneZ said:
​
​
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, ​
and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Hebrews 9:22​

Your argument is not with me.

And, you are basing your argument on human terms. Not God's terms.

Justice of God required it. Past tense. For it has now been fulfilled by the Cross.

You do not agree with that?

Why are you trying to reason from a human perspective?
When the Justice being discussed pertains to God's Justice?
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I think you believe in "magic blood"....

Just where is the blood of Jesus Christ right now?

The shedding of blood represent the giving of life. The life of the flesh is in the blood. Christ's flesh died in the Atonement.

You are the one thinking from "man's perspective".
 
civic said:
Justice means giving each person what he or she deserves or, in more traditional terms, giving each person his or her due. Justice and fairness are closely related terms that are often today used interchangeably.
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Huh! Maybe this is why we can't agree. :)

To me what you have said here is revenge, not justice. Justice in my world is to make right. The Cross made right what Adam made wrong.
 
GeneZ said:
The Galatians were gentile believers whom the Judaizers were trying to infiltrate by getting them to live under the Law.



You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Galatians 3:1-2

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:6-9
Click to expand...

No. Paul was dealing with the argument being made. It doesn't matter who made the argument. YOU'RE making the same argument NOW....

You are requiring righteousness by the law. That is what you are doing. That is what they were doing.

You want God's Grace to be EARNED........

That is what YOU WANT.
 
praise_yeshua said:
I think you believe in "magic blood"....

Just where is the blood of Jesus Christ right now?

The shedding of blood represent the giving of the life. The life of the flesh is in the blood. Christ's flesh died in the Atonement.

You are the one thinking from "man's perspective".
Click to expand...


Jesus did not physically bleed to death physically to save us.

For He was still alive when He said it is "Finished." Salvation from sin was completed before he died physically.

The blood of animals could only be symbolic of the greater and true reality that Jesus fulfilled on the Cross.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Christ wasn't righteous by keeping the law.
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I don't understand why you keep bringing things into the discussion that I have not mentioned. I said Christ (in his humanity) is right by faith as all men are made right through faith. Law has nothing to do with being made righteous.

praise_yeshua said:
There are many issues with your position.
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As far as I am concerned the real issue with my position is your constant misunderstanding of what I'm saying. :)
 
GeneZ said:
Jesus did not physically bleed to death physically to save us.

For He was still alive when He said it is "Finished." Salvation from sin was completed before he died physically.

The blood of animals could only be symbolic of the greater and true reality that Jesus fulfilled on the Cross.
Click to expand...

I asked you where the blood of Jesus Christ is right now.

Go ahead and tell everyone what you believe about it.......
 
sawdust said:
I don't understand why you keep bringing things into the discussion that I have not mentioned. I said Christ (in his humanity) is right by faith as all men are made right through faith. Law has nothing to do with being made righteous.
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Well. There are many aspects of this being discussed. I mention it because it is relative to what you are saying. Whether you admit it or make the argument yourself, it is relative. There are logical conclusion to be formed based upon what we say.

Maybe I missed your comments on faith or I was preoccupied. My apologies.

So you actually believe the relationship with the Father was in jeopardy to the point that Christ only pleased the father through faith?

The pleasure that the Father took in the Atonement was in His relationship with the Son. Christ was never in jeopardy of not being pleasing to the Father. Never.

You actually provide more ammunition to the position @civic holds.

sawdust said:
As far as I am concerned the real issue with my position is your constant misunderstanding of what I'm saying. :)
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Me too... :)

Sorry for the confusion....
 
praise_yeshua said:
No. Paul was dealing with the argument being made. It doesn't matter who made the argument. YOU'RE making the same argument NOW....

You are requiring righteousness by the law. That is what you are doing. That is what they were doing.

You want God's Grace to be EARNED........

That is what YOU WANT.
Click to expand...

I am not requiring righteousness by the Law.

Our righteousness is imputed to us because the requirements of the Law having been FULFILLED by Jesus on the Cross.

Our righteousness is found in Christ. Not in the Law.


“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; ​
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " Matthew 5:17​
 
sawdust said:
I don't understand why you keep bringing things into the discussion that I have not mentioned. I said Christ (in his humanity) is right by faith as all men are made right through faith. Law has nothing to do with being made righteous.
Click to expand...


I think its someone else he has a fight with and can't find that one to confront.

You just got in the way... ;)
 
GeneZ said:
I am not requiring righteousness by the Law.

Our righteousness is imputed to us because the requirements of the Law having been FULFILLED by Jesus on the Cross.

Our righteousness is found in Christ. Not in the Law.


“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; ​
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " Matthew 5:17​
Click to expand...

YOU are insisting that Christ's Righteousness was established by keeping the law. No need to talk around it.
 

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