What about this blank statement is detailed in conversation, PY?
Sarcasm doesn’t help your argument! And the hyperbolic example demonstrates the absurdity of your position. For instance, I simply argue that you don’t need to teach a baby to say no to something they don’t want to do. You make the leap to a horrific situation of rape, as if a year old baby could do such a thing.
Which is my point...
There are called "extremes"... You have to find the edges and work your way back to find the answer. At the very least, you are recognizing boundaries to evil that isn't natural to the existence of humanity....
Paul appealed to "natural affections" in Romans 1. He also appealed to sinful men being "past feeling". Reprobates. Those who have abandoned any sense of natural consciousness.
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Paul also appealed to the "senses" of man to discern good and evil.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
He also spoke of how the "devilish" have seared their own conscience.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Yes. Children can quickly learn to take advantage of their circumstances. That is not an indication of actual being sinful. It is a indication of peccability. Choices. Choices that we do not understand the ramifications of. Innocence.
The natural “no” to a jar of puréed carrots that a parent is trying to feed them is the same “no” that refuses to yield to the objections of of a girl trying to not have sex with him at a later point in life.
I never liked pureed carrots. We don't know what babies want. Human beings are different. We don't want to the same things. Lack of the ability to communicate at the same level.... might be the issue here.
Which is true of our relationship to God. We grow. It takes time. Things become our own. We start owning things. Dealing with our inabilities and powerlessness.
Again, the evidence for the sinful nature is demonstrated in our children at the earliest stages of their development and capacities to communicate. Way earlier than the age of the child learning the law and what coveting is that Paul portrays.
But to the point of Rom 7:8, Paul is demonstrating that “sin” is the master of his thoughts and motives. Sin is acting without restraint in him to produce “all kinds of covetousness”.
I can accept part of that but is not all of it. Cain in anger slew his brother. I don't believe Cain actually knew what his actions meant. Which might be why God forbid Cain from being judged.
I'm reminded of
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,
Which is why we must teach others.
The purpose of the law is to reveal the reality of sin at work within us. (Rom 3:20, 7:13) It is meant to show that we are incapable of being holy, and demonstrate our need of a savior, thereby pointing us to the cross of Christ! (Gal 3:19-20, 23-25)
The grammatical construction of Rom 7:8 says nothing about “asking” whether we can do or not do something, PY, nor does anything else in Romans 7. It is all about our discovering that what we think we can do is the very thing that we cannot do because we are a slave to sin in our natural, pre-conversion state of being.
Is that detailed enough?
Doug
It is.... Thank you!
Sin is progressive.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Pro 6:27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?
Pro 6:28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?
When you tell a lie, the best thing to do is confess. If you do not confess, you have to tell another lie to cover it up. Over and over. Deeper and deeper.
Once you see something, once you taste something.... it leaves a impression on your brain. A memory. If you see evil, then it leaves an impression upon you. The same is true of good. We emulate what we see from others. We do so because such things impart knowledge to us.
Innocence is often lost through interaction with our environment. God has designed this to teach and challenge us about our choices. The impact of our choices upon others. At every turn we are forced to "own" our choices.
