Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)

[civic]

There’s a glaring problem with the point you’re trying to make: There is a manuscript issue in regard to 1 John 5:7. There is no manuscript issue in regard to John 1:2-3.

Since you‘re acknowledging that there is a problem with 1 John 5:7, why did you ask me to believe the spurious verse?

so you are saying they were illiterate since they included 1 John 5:7 and should of known better.

 

[synergy]

I’ve been having this conversation with trinitarians for three decades. None of those trinitarians did to Tyndale (and the other trinitarian translators) what these trinitarians have done to them.

You finally came across Trinitarians that know their Greek. It was bound to happen.

I mentioned this to a trinitarian pastor and he just shook his head and told me I was wasting my time talking with these people. He had no issue with the Geneva Bible and had nothing but high praise for Tyndale.

The Trinitarian Pastor most probably shook his head when he realized that you are now up against those who know Greek, and that your case will crash and burn.

 

[Matthias]

so you are saying they were illiterate since they included 1 John 5:7 and should of known better.

No. That’s ridiculous. None of them were illiterate.

Why did you ask me to believe a text which you knew in advance isn’t authentic?

 

[synergy]

You need more help than I can give you. You should speak with a trinitarian pastor - like the one I spoke with - who understands that the trinitarians who produced the English Bibles in the Protestant Reformation period were not calling God an “it,” did not believe God is an “it,” and were not grammar illiterates.

Does that Pastor understand Greek?

 

[Diserner]

I believe the arguments for 1 John 5:7 being authentic are sound:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/i-am-now-convinced-1-john-5-7-8-is-authentic.563/

 

[Matthias]

You finally came across Trinitarians that know their Greek. It was bound to happen.

1. No I haven’t.

2. You treat them as you do Tyndale and experts in Greek grammar.

The Trinitarian Pastor most probably shook his head when he realized that you are now up against those who know Greek, and that your case will crash and burn.

You’re speaking about something of which you have no knowledge.

The pastor I spoke with knows Greek and uses the Geneva Bible in his preaching. I asked him specifically about John’s prologue. You lose.

 

[Matthias]

Does that Pastor understand Greek?

Better than you do.

Since you’re so certain about it, will you write to the trinitarian organizations I mentioned (and others that I haven’t) to warn them? If not, why not?

 

[synergy]

There is no defense required for the truth.

If for once, those with a major bias who constantly read their doctrine into scripture can just somehow, even for just one time, forget they carried these beliefs, and with a near unbiased view, then and only then can it be possible for a breakthrough and a eureka, haha moment.

And then for example in John 1:1-4 forget the subjects and just rename all players, nouns and make it into a tale of a different subject that a child might read and understand.

In the beginning was THE THING and this THING came from and was always with or a part of the King of the land. They were inseparable. And what or who the King was THE THING was also. The THING was a reflection of the King. In THIS THING that was also of the King, was life for the people.....

Now if that type of THING does not work, then I would say get it over with, and for those that still insist the word is a person and also their savior just replace 'the word' with Jesus as some outrageous Bibles have done already.

So why are they not confident is doing it... In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was WITH GOD...

....oops Jesus is not GOD then...it does not work, aye....

I would have to give up on the Greek language among many other things to come over to your side. Ain't going to happen.

 

[civic]

I would have to give up on the Greek language among many other things to come over to your side. Ain't going to happen.

Yes what point is Greek when it gets changed to fit one’s doctrine. This whole John 1:1-14 proves it

 

[Matthias]

Yes what point is Greek when it gets changed to fit one’s doctrine. This whole John 1:1-14 proves it

Tyndale didn’t change the Greek to fit his doctrine. Neither did any of the other trinitarians who produced translations which were as or like his.

 

[synergy]

Tyndale didn’t change the Greek to fit his doctrine. Neither did any of the other trinitarians who produced translations which were as or like his.

Tyndale translated οὗτος as αυτό. That's what @civic is saying.

 

[synergy]

Better than you do.

Since you’re so certain about it, will you write to the trinitarian organizations I mentioned (and others that I haven’t) to warn them? If not, why not?

If your Pastor friend understands οὗτος as αυτό then the evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Matthias]

Tyndale translated οὗτος as αυτό. That's what @civic is saying.

See my post on auto - “he, she, it”.

How concerned are you about this? Concerned enough to write to trinitarian organizations which are championing the Geneva Bible?

 

[Matthias]

If your Pastor friend understands οὗτος as αυτό then the evidence is to the contrary.

Write to the trinitarian organizations I mentioned. Make your case to them. They’ll either change their minds about the Geneva Bible or put you in your place. Either way, that’s a win-win.

 

[civic]

Write to the trinitarian organizations I mentioned. Make your case to them. They’ll either change their minds about the Geneva Bible or put you in your place. Either way, that’s a win-win.

I will stick within my sphere of influence.

 

[Matthias]

I will stick within my sphere of influence.

Little fish, little pond.

You have a chance to help those whom you‘re absolutely certain are being mislead by the Geneva Bible. You’re knowingly letting them go down a path which you’re convinced is wrong. And not just wrong; evil.

My conscience wouldn’t allow me to do that, but my conscience isn’t your conscience.

If you had written to them, they would have helped you.

 

[civic]

Little fish, little pond.

You have a chance to help those whom you‘re absolutely certain are being mislead by the Geneva Bible. You’re knowingly letting them go down a path which you’re convinced is wrong. And not just wrong; evil.

My conscience wouldn’t allow me to do that, but my conscience isn’t your conscience.

If you had written to them, they would have helped you.

Thats like telling you to write the pope so he will listen to you. Why won't you write him ?

 

[civic]

Or maybe you should write Daniel Wallace who agrees with me and tell him why he is wrong about Johns prologue

 

[Matthias]

Thats like telling you to write the pope so he will listen to you. Why won't you write him ?

The pope is trinitarian. I’m a Jewish monotheist.

You’re a trinitarian. The organizations championing the Geneva Bible are trinitarians. The pastors who are preaching using the Geneva Bible are trinitarians. The people sitting in the pews hearing and reading the Fenevca Bible are trinitarians. The people who don’t know anything but are being encouraged by trinitarians may very well become trinitarians.

 

[Matthias]

Or maybe you should write Daniel Wallace who agrees with me and tell him why he is wrong about Johns prologue.

Maybe I should. If I wasn’t retired, I probably would have run into him at a conference.

If I were to spear with Daniel Wallace and tell him what you and @synergy have been saying about Tyndale and the other trinitarian translators, he’s probably going to ask me what I’m doing hanging around and wasting my time with such persons.