"the Word was God"

[101G]

OT Proof That Echad Does Not Point to God Being Uni-Personal
The following verse functions as the creed, or confession of faith, which the Israelites were to live by:

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one (echad) Lord:” Deuteronomy 6:4

the definition of "ONE", in Deuteronomy 6:4, as you can attest to in using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments is,
ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

take note of that second definition. see, the Ordinal of first and Last is the numerical difference of the same one person as Father/LORD, Son/Lord. listen to the Ordinal designations in "ORDER" and "PLACE", and "TIME". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

now stop and think, is this not the same "LORD", who is God in Deuteronomy 6:4 is the "First?" read Isaiah 41:4 again. and is not this "LORD" With, with, with, the Last? according to Isaiah 41:4. so, is the First/the LORD is a separate and distinct person from the LAST? who is a Person? well let the bible tell us. LISTEN and LEARN, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." the First/LORD, is ALSO, ALSO, the LAST/Lord who MADE ALL THINGS. and the LAST is Jesus the Christ, according to John 1:1 and as K1 pointed out Colossians 1:15 & 16 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

now if JESUS is not the First/LORD, then you have two separate CREATORS who Made all things..... hello.

so Johann, what is it going to be. Two separate and distinct creators who Made all things, or ONE PERSON "JESUS" who made all things who is both "LORD"/Father, and Son/"Lord" in the ECHAD of First and Last...... your choice.

101G.

 

[101G]

Incorrect.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.


In him were created (en autōi ektisthē). Paul now gives the reason (hoti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Col_1:16f.). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisthē (from ktizō, old verb, to found, to create (Rom_1:25). This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in Joh_1:3; Heb_1:2 and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy.

The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth. God wrought through “the Son of his love.” All earthly dignities are included.

Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizō, “stand created,” “remain created.” The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe.

Through him (di' autou). As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autōi (in him) as the sphere of activity.

And unto him (kai eis auton). This is the only remaining step to take and Paul takes it (1Co_15:28) See note on Eph_1:10 for similar use of en autōi of Christ and in Col_1:19, Col_1:20 again we have en autōi, di' autou, eis auton used of Christ. See note on Heb_2:10 for di' hon (because of whom) and di' hou (by means of whom) applied to God concerning the universe (ta panta). In Rom_11:35 we find ex autou kai di' autou kai eis auton ta panta referring to God. But Paul does not use ex in this connection of Christ, but only en, dia, and eis. See the same distinction preserved in 1Co_8:6 (ex of God, dia, of Christ).
RWP

Study the Morphologies and Syntax in Basic Greek and Hebrew.

by him were: Col_1:15; Psa_102:25-27; Isa_40:9-12, Isa_44:24; Joh_1:3; 1Co_8:6; Eph_3:9; Heb_1:2, Heb_1:10-12, Heb_3:3-4
in heaven: Col_1:20; Deu_4:39; 1Ch_29:11; Eph_1:10; Php_2:10; Rev_5:13-14
thrones: Col_2:10, Col_2:15; Rom_8:38; Eph_1:21, Eph_3:10, Eph_6:12; 1Pe_3:22
by: Pro_16:4; Isa_43:21; Rom_11:36; Heb_2:10

ERROR see Post #60

101G

 

[101G]

Exactly my position-why yell "Error?"

LOL, was Christ flesh bone and blood at Genesis 1:1? this is why 101G yell ERROR.

101G.

 

[Johann]

ERROR see Post #60

brother-this is now the third time you call "Error" and I would suggest spend your time with someone else since you don't answer my questions-or else will put you on ignore.
Bible Question:
Did Jesus create everything, Including the world?

Bible Answer:
The scriptures state that Jesus was involved in the creation of the world and the entire universe. This was possible because Jesus is God. The overwhelming message of the Scriptures teaches that Jesus is God. The reader is encouraged to listen or read the study series, “The Bible Teaches Jesus Is God,” and discover this wonderful and vital truth. There are a number of passages that teach Jesus was not just involved in the creation; He is actually referred to as the One creating the universe and everything that is in it and in heaven.

Jesus Created Everything, Including The World?

All Things Came Into Being Through Him
John 1:1-3 is the first important passage that teaches “all things” were created by Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:1-3 (NASB)

In the first verse we are told that the Word was God. For an explanation of the meaning of John 1:1, please read, “Before God created the universe, where was Christ?” The study teaches that the Word is Christ (John 1:14) who is our God. He created everything. He created all that is in heaven and in the universe.

We Exist Through Him
The next important passage is 1 Corinthians 8:6.

. . . yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. 1 Corinthians 8:6 (NASB)

This verse is important since it reveals that Christ did the exact same things that the Father did. God the Father created all things and we live because of the Father. The apostle Paul also states that Christ will maintain all things. This reveals Christ is also God and He created!

By Him Everything Visible and Invisible Were Created
Colossians 1:15-17 helps us understand that when He and the Father created, they created everything in heaven and earth.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Colossians 1:15-17 (NASB)

What did He create? Everything! Everything includes the visible and invisible. The descriptions of dominions, rulers or authorities includes the entire angelic realm. Notice the word “all” is repeated. Now the word all includes everything imaginable. Notice that Christ was before the beginning, that is, before everything, and He continues holding everything together.

But notice that we are told that everything was created by Christ. That means that Christ was not created. He is not a created being; He is God!

The Father Made All Things Through Christ
The last verse we will examine is Hebrews 1:2.

. . . in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)

Notice that Jesus Christ is referred to in this verse. This verse reveals how the Father and Christ created the heavens and the earth together. The Trinity acted together.

Conclusion:
Did Jesus create everything, including the world? The answer is yes! He created more than just the world. He created everything. He created everything in heaven and on earth. He made the angels, the stars, the universe and all that is on the earth. Christ is our God, along with the Father and the Spirit, who also created everything. They created everything together.

You are encouraged to read the reference links below.

Suggested Links:
The Bible Teaches Jesus Is God
Before God created the universe, where was Christ?
If God created the world, did Jesus ever create anything?
Before God created the universe, where was Christ?
Why were angels created?
Why did God create man?
Did God create the sun on the first or fourth day?
What is the meaning of Genesis 1:1?

Before God created the universe, where was Christ?

What was the origin of God? Where was God before He created the universe? Did someone make God or does He have parents? Where did God get His knowledge?

www.neverthirsty.org

I have not joined this Forum to go into circular reasoning with you.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[TedT]

1:1 "In the beginning" This reflects Genesis 1:1 and is also used in 1 John 1:1 as a reference to the incarnation. It is possible that 1 John was a cover letter to the Gospel.

Some thoughts:

"In THE beginning..." we are altering the text, as the definite article ("THE") isn't present in the Hebrew version. In other words, the Hebrew doesn't state whether Genesis 1:1 is talking about "THE" beginning (the first and only one), or instead is talking about "A" beginning (one among many others). If you check the Interlinear Bible edited by John R. Kohlenberger III you'll find that he makes this same clarification.

JOHN'S BEGINNING
This category has to do with the apostle John's use of the word "beginning" in his first letter. 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning… the Word of life.
This introduction is very similar to the one John used in his gospel, which begins with: In the beginning was the Word. I believe that both refer to the same time, and that this time is synonymous with the time in Genesis 1:1 in the beginning. Thus these three references refer to the time before (or at the front of) the six days of the creation of the world.

1 John 2:7 I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. I cannot help but think that John was alluding to Isaiah 40:21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? If he is not alluding to Isaiah, he certainly is referring to the same truth in my opinion.

1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him [that is] from the beginning. It probably is not necessary, but for the last time, “that is” is not in the Greek text. Therefore, in Greek, it reads, “known Him from the beginning”.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. It should be noted that in the Bible, “the beginning” usually refers to all the time and events that happened before Genesis 1:2, that is, the time when the angels were created and the rebellion in Paradise took place, 1 John 3:8 ...for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's commentary(#27) says: “sinneth from the beginning - from the time that sin began; from the time that he became what he is, the devil.” This must be around the same time as In the beginning of Genesis 1:1. At least, it can not be much after.

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. I believe that John is referring to the loving purpose GOD has for each of us. 1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

According to 1 John 2:7, we heard this commandment “from the beginning”.

Conclusion for John's Beginning.
When the word “beginning” has to do with Jesus or the devil, it means around the same time as Genesis 1:1, that is, before or at the beginning of the six day creation (depending how one translates the “was - became” in Genesis 1:2).

Are we really warranted in redefining it whenever it refers to us? I know that it has been redefined to fit in with the traditional presuppositions regarding the creation of our spirit on earth, but does this not constitute a twisting or taking Scripture out of context?
According to pre-conception existence (PCE) theology, each of these references, by the same author, in the same letter, has the same meaning. To my mind, this is much superior to two definitions of the same word, in the same letter, by the same author. Why did John not use two different words if he meant two different times? I do not think that John was mixed up. In fact, I think he knew very well exactly what he was saying. He seems to be very good at saying it over, and over, and over, and over…

 

[Johann]

Are we really warranted in redefining it whenever it refers to us? I know that it has been redefined to fit in with the traditional presuppositions regarding the creation of our spirit on earth, but does this not constitute a twisting or taking Scripture out of context?
According to pre-conception existence (PCE) theology, each of these references, by the same author, in the same letter, has the same meaning. To my mind, this is much superior to two definitions of the same word, in the same letter, by the same author. Why did John not use two different words if he meant two different times? I do not think that John was mixed up. In fact, I think he knew very well exactly what he was saying. He seems to be very good at saying it over, and over, and over, and over…

Thanks for the response-but I have 2 scholars that would say different

In the beginning was (ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν)

With evident allusion to the first word of Genesis.

But John elevates the phrase from its reference to a point of time, the beginning of creation, to the time of absolute pre-existence before any creation, which is not mentioned until Joh_1:3.

This beginning had no beginning (compare Joh_1:3; Joh_17:5; 1Jn_1:1; Eph_1:4; Pro_8:23; Psa_90:2).

This heightening of the conception, however, appears not so much in ἀρχή, beginning, which simply leaves room for it, as in the use of ἦν, was, denoting absolute existence (compare εἰμί, I am, Joh_8:58) instead of ἐγένετο, came into being, or began to be, which is used in Joh_1:3, Joh_1:14, of the coming into being of creation and of the Word becoming flesh.

Note also the contrast between ἀρχή, in the beginning, and the expression ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, from the beginning, which is common in John's writings (Joh_8:44; 1Jn_2:7, 1Jn_2:24; 1Jn_3:8) and which leaves no room for the idea of eternal pre-existence.

“In Gen_1:1, the sacred historian starts from the beginning and comes downward, thus keeping us in the course of time. Here he starts from the same point, but goes upward, thus taking us into the eternity preceding time” (Milligan and Moulton).

See on Col_1:15. This notion of “beginning” is still further heightened by the subsequent statement of the relation of the Logos to the eternal God. The ἀρχή must refer to the creation - the primal beginning of things; but if, in this beginning, the Logos already was, then he belonged to the order of eternity.

“The Logos was not merely existent, however, in the beginning, but was also the efficient principle, the beginning of the beginning. The ἀρχή (beginning), in itself and in its operation dark, chaotic, was, in its idea and its principle, comprised in one single luminous word, which was the Logos.

And when it is said the Logos was in this beginning, His eternal existence is already expressed, and His eternal position in the Godhead already indicated thereby” (Lange).

“Eight times in the narrative of creation (in Genesis) there occur, like the refrain of a hymn, the words, And God said. John gathers up all those sayings of God into a single saying, living and endowed with activity and intelligence, from which all divine orders emanate: he finds as the basis of all spoken words, the speaking Word” (Godet).
MV
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In the beginning (en archēi). Archē is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be reshith in Gen_1:1.

But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis.

It is simply assumed. Either God exists and is the Creator of the universe as scientists like Eddington and Jeans assume or matter is eternal or it has come out of nothing.
RWP

(en archēi)--Without the Definite Article-"In Beginning"

 

[Johann]

In the beginning was (ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν)

@TedT If there was a Definite Article if would have denoted THE Beginning-almost like an Aorist-but take note of EN-
ἦν
Transliteration: ēn
Morphology: V-IIA-3S
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular-what is the Imperfect?

Shalom
J.

 

[Keiw1]

I have proven many Scriptures to be true from secondary sources and Basic Greek and Hebrew-all of which is above you.

Its not above God. Men err daily.

 

[Keiw1]

Like I have said to @Keiw1 -instead of doing word studies, nothing wrong with it, familiarize yourself with the Morphologies and Syntax in Scripture.

Its not to difficult to understand-HE- = a singular being.

 

[Keiw1]

GINOLJC, to all,
JESUS is God in the ECHAD of First/Father, and Last/So. and as for the MAKER of ALL THINGS, that's JESUS, who is God as the Ordinal First.

Who told you those LIES? Listen to the TRUTH. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
K1, think, if he was ALONE and by himself, he did not go through anyone..... hello.

now your Colossians 1:15 & 16 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

first, "Who is the image of the invisible God" Question, what is Man? the "IMAGE" of who? answer God, God image is he himself MANIFESTED in flesh bone and blood. THAT WHAT YOU COULD NOT SEE, (THE INVISBLE) , Spirit, God is now seen.

now verse 16, "By, By, By, him.... self he made all things. this is just too easy not to miss. by do not mean through, by means just what it means.... "by" for "BY" means "identifying the agent performing an action". and who was it? ....... "HIM".... God all "ALONE" ....... drum roll please ........... BY, BY, BY, ..... HIMSELF, just as Isaiah 44:24 states. yes, the Spirit, for God is a Spirit, (INVISBLE)...... NOW SEEN, in Flesh bone and Blood....... this is just too easy.

101G.

I explained by myself= God is the only one with the power to create. The Word LORD does not belong there- I am YHWH(Jehovah) that maketh all things. Your translations are altered to mislead.

 

[civic]

I explained by myself= God is the only one with the power to create. The Word LORD does not belong there- I am YHWH(Jehovah) that maketh all things. Your translations are altered to mislead.

Exactly which is why Christ is YHWH ( God )

Colossians 1, Hebrews 1, John 1, Genesis 1, Romans 11, Revelations 1 and 4-5, 22.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Keiw1]

Exactly which is why Christ is YHWH ( God )

Colossians 1, Hebrews 1, John 1, Genesis 1, Romans 11, Revelations 1 and 4-5, 22.

hope this helps !!!

YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)--proves Jesus is not YHWH.--But your altered translations to mislead has The LORD said to my Lord. YHWH always got-LORD all capitols in the OT proving Lord(Jesus) is not YHWH.

 

[Johann]

LOL, was Christ flesh bone and blood at Genesis 1:1? this is why 101G yell ERROR.

B. “The Word of God” as Speech by God

1. God’s Decrees. Sometimes God’s words take the form of powerful decrees that
cause events to happen or even cause things to come into being. “And God said, “Let
there be light’; and there was light” (Gen. 1:3). God even created the animal world by
speaking his powerful word: “And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living
creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth
according to their kinds.’ And it was so” (Gen. 1:24). Thus, the psalmist can say, “By
the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host by the breath of his
mouth” (Ps. 33:6).
These powerful, creative words from God are often called God’s decrees. A
decree of God is a word of God that causes something to happen. These decrees of
God include not only the events of the original creation but also the continuing
existence of all things, for Hebrews 1:3 tells us that Christ is continually “upholding
the universe by his word of power.”

JPS 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
ONK 1:27 And the Lord created(7) the Adam in His image, in the image of the Lord(8) He created him; male and female He created them.
PAL 1:27 And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him, with two hundred and forty and eight members, with three hundred and sixty and five nerves, and over-laid them with skin, and filled it with flesh and blood. Male and female in their bodies He created them.
JER 1:27 And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.

GENESIS 2:8
JPS 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
ONK 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden in a region of pleasantness(11) in the time of the beginning, and He made to dwell there the man whom He had created.
PAL 2:8 And a garden from the Eden of the just was planted by the Word of the Lord God before the creation of the world, and He made there to dwell the man when He had created him.

You said Jesus was not "actively involved in the Creation account" How do you answer with the Scriptures in front of your eyes?

 

[Johann]

and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." the First/LORD, is ALSO, ALSO, the LAST/Lord who MADE ALL THINGS. and the LAST is Jesus the Christ, according to John 1:1 and as K1 pointed out Colossians 1:15 & 16 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created

Something you miss-
Part 3 - First Division
1. Nathanael finds in the Scriptures, what his instructors also teach: the mystery of the revelation of each of the Three Spirits also called the Three Beings, in the unity of the Godhead.—2. The WORD (Memra) of the Lord, is called Jehovah (Yud Hei Vav Hei).—3. The WORD of the Lord, is the Creator of man and of the world.

So we agree Yeshua was the Memra in the beginning Gen 1.1-Yud-Hei Vav- Hei

—4. The Patriarchs believed in the WORD Jehovah.—5. Who was the Lawgiver?—6. Father Abraham's faith.—7. In whose name our Father Abraham prayed.—8. Whom did Moses, our Teacher, worship?—9. Moses committed the faith of the Patriarchs to the keeping of their descendants.—10. No oath was valid amongst my ancestors, except by the WORD of the Lord.—11. The reason why my ancestors swore by the WORD of the Lord.—12. The command of the ancient teachers of Israel.—13. The WORD of the Lord must be obeyed as God.—14. Nathanael discovers that God never made a covenant with any of the Patriarchs except through the mediation of the WORD of the Lord.—15. Nathanael is led to believe that there is no salvation but in the WORD of the Lord.

Part 3 - Second Division
1. The WORD of the Lord is the ANGEL of the Covenant.—2. The ANGEL of the Covenant is an uncreated being and is styled Elohim, Jehovah and the Lord.—3. There is no Redeemer besides the ANGEL of the Covenant.—4. Nathanael discovers a great truth: God revealed Himself in the ANGEL of the Covenant.—5. The Akidah or the mystery of the offering up of Isaac.—6. Nathanael visits in spirit the Mountain of Horeb (Exo 3:2).—7. This ANGEL of the Covenant is the Shechinah, the Glory of God.—8. The Promise.—9. The ANGEL of the Covenant is to be obeyed, for God is in Him.—10. More light breaks in upon Nathanael's mind.

Part 3 - Third Division
1. Nathanael discovers that the WORD of the Lord is not only called the ANGEL of the Covenant, but also the Metatron.—2. Signification of the Name, Metatron.—3. No one, not even Moses, has ever seen God, but he saw the Metatron, who appeared unto him.—4. Metatron, the first-begotten of God.—5. Metatron, highly exalted.—6. Metatron is the only mediator between God and man.—7. The Almighty has revealed Himself in no other than in the Metatron, the KEEPER of Israel.—8. Metatron is called the Son of God.

Part 3 - Fourth Division
1. The Middle Pillar in the Godhead, has revealed Himself as the Son of God.—2. Nathanael is instructed that the Son of God is from eternity, an emanation from God, therefore called Jehovah (Yud Hei Vav Hei).—3. The Son of God, the Fountain of Light, Begotten from Eternity.—4. My Ancestors' triumphing faith in the Son of God.—5. R. Simeon ben Jochai's prayer and exhortation.

Part 4 - The Holy Spirit
1. Nathanael is led into the Inner Chamber of Light.—2. The Holy Spirit is a Substantive Being in the Godhead, the Creator of the World.—3. An inference drawn from the above.—4. A query.—5. The Holy Spirit has all the Divine attributes: He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.—6. What is the office of the Holy Spirit?—7. How can I know God from His Word?—8. The Holy Spirit was from the beginning, the Guide of the Israel of God.—9. The Holy Spirit has sent the Prophets, and spoken through them.—10. The Holy Spirit shall quicken the dead.—11. Nathanael takes a retrospective view, and entertains encouraging expectations.

Conclusion




Preface.
The humble object of this little book is to prove that our sages of blessed memory, long before the Christian era, held that there was a plurality in the Godhead. Indeed, this teaching was held for yet 100 years after the destruction of the second temple, and, as it was contained and declared in the Holy Scriptures, it was also set forth in our most ancient books, as the reader will see from quotations given in these pages.

The quotations from the Holy Scriptures, the Aramaic Paraphrases and other ancient writings of the sages, have been given in the original Hebrew Aramaic tongues in which they were originally framed, this that the reader may be able to judge for himself of the faithfulness of these quotations.

The translation, joined to these quotations, is meant to enable those who are not conversant with the ancient languages to see that the good news of fulfillment teaches nothing but that which was revealed beforehand in the Holy Scriptures or promise.

The author of this little book would desire to ask of the reader that he bear in mind the fact that the Holy Scriptures, and nothing but the Holy Scriptures are the foundation to which he holds and upon which he claims that the Holy One, Blessed be He, is a divine and wonderful Tri-unity. Quotations from human writings, however old, venerable and reliable, are only presented in order to show my beloved brethren of Israel how inconsistent they are to reject such a thought regarding our great God and Saviour, while professing — as they do — to follow closely after their forefather, who, it is here proved, believed this whole-heartedly.

3. The WORD of the Lord, is the Creator of man and of the world.
That this WORD is the essential and uncreated WORD, one of the Three Heads (see Part 2, #5) which are One, is evident from His being the Creator of man, as the Jerusalem Paraphrase of Jonathan Ben Uziel (Gen 1:27) faithfully teaches me, saying:

"And the WORD of Jehovah created man in His likeness, in the likeness of Jehovah, Jehovah created, male and female created He them."
I clearly perceive that the WORD is called Jehovah, and that through Him (the uncreated, self-existing WORD) all things, visible and invisible, were created. Thus I read in the Jerusalem Targum (Exo 3:14):
"And the WORD of the Lord said unto Moses: I am He who said unto the world, Be! and it was: and who in the future shall say to it, Be! and it shall be. And He said: Thus thou shalt say to the children of Israel: I Am hath sent me unto you."

Right there in Genesis 1.1!
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Its not to difficult to understand-HE- = a singular being.

You sit with a problem-how do you answer?
JPS 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
ONK 1:27 And the Lord created(7) the Adam in His image, in the image of the Lord(8) He created him; male and female He created them.
PAL 1:27 And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him, with two hundred and forty and eight members, with three hundred and sixty and five nerves, and over-laid them with skin, and filled it with flesh and blood. Male and female in their bodies He created them.
JER 1:27 And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.

GENESIS 2:8
JPS 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
ONK 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden in a region of pleasantness(11) in the time of the beginning, and He made to dwell there the man whom He had created.
PAL 2:8 And a garden from the Eden of the just was planted by the Word of the Lord God before the creation of the world, and He made there to dwell the man when He had created him.

GENESIS 3:8
JPS 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden toward the cool of the day; and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
ONK 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the evening of the day;(22) and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
PAL 3:8 And they heard the voice of the word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
JER 3:8 Walking in the garden in the strength of the day

Plurality in the Godhead
or
How Can Three Be One?
Rabbi Tzvi Nassi (CWH Pauli)
(1863)
How can they (the Three) be One?
Are they verily One, because we call them One?
How Three can be One, can only be known
through the revelation of the Holy Spirit
(Zohar II 43b)



Preface
Part 1
1. Nathanael gives an account of himself.—2. The effect of Divine life in the soul.—3. Nathanael explains the plan of enquiry which he pursued.—4. Nathanael gives us a sketch of the lives of these Jewish-Church fathers.—5. A grammatical axiom in the Hebrew language.—6. Logical agreement between the subject and the predicate, or between the noun and verb.

Part 2 - The God of Israel
1. Nathanael examines whether God has revealed himself in threefold nature. His name, Elohim (God).—2. Nathanael's irresistible desire for the knowledge of God.—3. The Zohar teaches Nathanael the Mystery of the Trinity expressed by the word Elohim.—4. Nathanael's reflections.—5. Corroboration of the truth stated in the former paragraph.—6. The world has been created by the Three Substantive Beings in the Unity of the Godhead.—7. Nathanael believes that there is but One God, but Threefold in nature.—8. Explanation of the preceding paragraph.—9. Nathanael remains in the company of R. Menachem, of Recanati, who unfolds to him the Mystery of the Trinity in the Unity, from Deuteronomy 6:4, as R. Simeon ben Jochai, in Section 7.—10. Nathanael ponders over the Mystery of the Creation of Man, and discovers the Mystery of the Trinity in the Unity, revealed therein.—11. Nathanael meets another friend, whom he introduces into the number of his teachers.—12. The Unity in the Trinity, and the Trinity in the Unity.—13. Subject and predicate both in the plural.—14. The key to the Mystery of the Trinity in Unity, and the Unity in Trinity.—15. Only in the Shechinah, that is, in Him who is the brightness of the glory of God, the middle-pillar in the Godhead, can the Mystery of the Three in One, and the One in Three, be seen.—16. Nathanael's determination to investigate the revelation of each of the three self-existing Beings in the Trinity.

Part 3 - First Division
1. Nathanael finds in the Scriptures, what his instructors also teach: the mystery of the revelation of each of the Three Spirits also called the Three Beings, in the unity of the Godhead.—2. The WORD (Memra) of the Lord, is called Jehovah (Yud Hei Vav Hei).—3. The WORD of the Lord, is the Creator of man and of the world.—4. The Patriarchs believed in the WORD Jehovah.—5. Who was the Lawgiver?—6. Father Abraham's faith.—7. In whose name our Father Abraham prayed.—8. Whom did Moses, our Teacher, worship?—9. Moses committed the faith of the Patriarchs to the keeping of their descendants.—10. No oath was valid amongst my ancestors, except by the WORD of the Lord.—11. The reason why my ancestors swore by the WORD of the Lord.—12. The command of the ancient teachers of Israel.—13. The WORD of the Lord must be obeyed as God.—14. Nathanael discovers that God never made a covenant with any of the Patriarchs except through the mediation of the WORD of the Lord.—15. Nathanael is led to believe that there is no salvation but in the WORD of the Lord.

Part 3 - Second Division
1. The WORD of the Lord is the ANGEL of the Covenant.—2. The ANGEL of the Covenant is an uncreated being and is styled Elohim, Jehovah and the Lord.—3. There is no Redeemer besides the ANGEL of the Covenant.—4. Nathanael discovers a great truth: God revealed Himself in the ANGEL of the Covenant.—5. The Akidah or the mystery of the offering up of Isaac.—6. Nathanael visits in spirit the Mountain of Horeb (Exo 3:2).—7. This ANGEL of the Covenant is the Shechinah, the Glory of God.—8. The Promise.—9. The ANGEL of the Covenant is to be obeyed, for God is in Him.—10. More light breaks in upon Nathanael's mind.

Part 3 - Third Division
1. Nathanael discovers that the WORD of the Lord is not only called the ANGEL of the Covenant, but also the Metatron.—2. Signification of the Name, Metatron.—3. No one, not even Moses, has ever seen God, but he saw the Metatron, who appeared unto him.—4. Metatron, the first-begotten of God.—5. Metatron, highly exalted.—6. Metatron is the only mediator between God and man.—7. The Almighty has revealed Himself in no other than in the Metatron, the KEEPER of Israel.—8. Metatron is called the Son of God.

Part 3 - Fourth Division
1. The Middle Pillar in the Godhead, has revealed Himself as the Son of God.—2. Nathanael is instructed that the Son of God is from eternity, an emanation from God, therefore called Jehovah (Yud Hei Vav Hei).—3. The Son of God, the Fountain of Light, Begotten from Eternity.—4. My Ancestors' triumphing faith in the Son of God.—5. R. Simeon ben Jochai's prayer and exhortation.

Part 4 - The Holy Spirit
1. Nathanael is led into the Inner Chamber of Light.—2. The Holy Spirit is a Substantive Being in the Godhead, the Creator of the World.—3. An inference drawn from the above.—4. A query.—5. The Holy Spirit has all the Divine attributes: He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.—6. What is the office of the Holy Spirit?—7. How can I know God from His Word?—8. The Holy Spirit was from the beginning, the Guide of the Israel of God.—9. The Holy Spirit has sent the Prophets, and spoken through them.—10. The Holy Spirit shall quicken the dead.—11. Nathanael takes a retrospective view, and entertains encouraging expectations.


1. Nathanael examines whether God has revealed himself in threefold nature. His name, Elohim (God).

On opening my Bible, the very first sentence drew my mind forcibly into deep meditation. "In the beginning Elohim (He) created." I cannot make "He created," being in the singular, agree grammatically with "Elohim" in the plural. There must therefore be a logical agreement between the noun and the verb.

Our later rabbis, having imbibed infidel notions, could give me no assistance. Even the rabbis of the twelfth century, as Aben Ezra, speak of God as speaking like modern kings. If our great master, Moses, of blessed memory, had known of such a use of the plural in reference to God, he would have put the verb also in the plural "they created." At any rate Elohim is a plural.

I went to R. Bechai (Gen 1.1), and he explained to me the word Elohim in the following manner:

Elohim (אלהים) is compounded of two words, אל הם , i.e. These are God. The plural is expressed by the letter yod (י) as in Ecclesiastes 12:1 "Remember now thy Creator." The letter yod in "thy Creator" expresses the plural, and we should therefore translate "Thy Creators." He that is wise will understand it.

Think about this.
J.

 

[101G]

brother-this is now the third time you call "Error" and I would suggest spend your time with someone else since you don't answer my questions-or else will put you on ignore.
Bible Question:
Did Jesus create everything, Including the world?

GINOLJC, to all.
did 101G not answer your question, I will answer it again. the Lord Jesus CREATED, and MADE ALL THINGS. but Jesus the CHRIST Made and Created NOTHING. 101G will be copying this Post for further references from you.

Bible Answer:
The scriptures state that Jesus was involved in the creation of the world and the entire universe. This was possible because Jesus is God. The overwhelming message of the Scriptures teaches that Jesus is God. The reader is encouraged to listen or read the study series, “The Bible Teaches Jesus Is God,” and discover this wonderful and vital truth. There are a number of passages that teach Jesus was not just involved in the creation; He is actually referred to as the One creating the universe and everything that is in it and in heaven.

Jesus Created Everything, Including The World?

All Things Came Into Being Through Him
John 1:1-3 is the first important passage that teaches “all things” were created by Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:1-3 (NASB)

NOTE WHAT YOU SAID: "All things came into being through Him". as 101G say again, ERROR, not through him, but by him, because if one suggests through, (as through ANOTHER PERSON, this violates scripture, and scripture never violates scripture. for he was alone, and BY HIMSELF. scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

now........ my brother, THINK. if the LORD who is ONE person, and he was ALONE..... who did he go through? do you see your dilemma now. for the term "ALONE" means, "having no one else present", hello..........

now, 101G know the problem you and many more are having with the term, "through". it's simply means "by". Listen and LEARN. using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, the term "THROUGH" means,
THROUGH, prep. thru.
1. From end to end, or from side to side; from one surface or limit to the opposite; as, to bore through a piece of timber, or through a board; a ball passes through the side of a ship.
2. Noting passage; as, to pass through a gate or avenue.
Through the gates of iv'ry he dismiss'd
His valiant offspring.
3. By transmission, noting the means of conveyance.
Through these hands this science has passed with great applause.
Material things are presented only through their senses.

let's look at what 101G is saying, Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

again using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, the term "BY" means,
BY, prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality.

KNOWING THIS, let's go back to Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" there it is ..... bright as Day..... By, BY, by, BY, HIM, him, ........... By him is THROUGH HIM.

do you understand now?.

101G.

 

[101G]

But notice that we are told that everything was created by Christ. That means that Christ was not created. He is not a created being; He is God!

The Father Made All Things Through Christ
The last verse we will examine is Hebrews 1:2.

. . . in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)

Notice that Jesus Christ is referred to in this verse. This verse reveals how the Father and Christ created the heavens and the earth together. The Trinity acted together.

Conclusion:
Did Jesus create everything, including the world? The answer is yes! He created more than just the world. He created everything. He created everything in heaven and on earth. He made the angels, the stars, the universe and all that is on the earth. Christ is our God, along with the Father and the Spirit, who also created everything. They created everything together.

You are encouraged to read the reference links below.

Suggested Links:
The Bible Teaches Jesus Is God
Before God created the universe, where was Christ?
If God created the world, did Jesus ever create anything?
Before God created the universe, where was Christ?
Why were angels created?
Why did God create man?
Did God create the sun on the first or fourth day?
What is the meaning of Genesis 1:1?

Before God created the universe, where was Christ?

What was the origin of God? Where was God before He created the universe? Did someone make God or does He have parents? Where did God get His knowledge?

www.neverthirsty.org

I have not joined this Forum to go into circular reasoning with you.
Shalom
Johann.

Brother LISTEN, Jesus the ...... Christ Made NOTHING, But Jesus the LORD did. the Christ made nothing. now watch this. Jesus the Christ REDEEMED, and SAVE all that, he JESUS, made in the beginning, but the FATHER, REDEEMED, and SAVE nothing. did you understand 101G's words? listen closely, the Father, the CREATOR, JESUS, the Ordinal FIRST, REDEEMED, and SAVE Nothing, that he Made in the Beginning, BUT "JESUS" did. .......... (smile). got it now?

Listen, this is your down fall, listen to yourself, "If God created the world, did Jesus ever create anything?" see that IGNORANT statement. now let 101G reduce it to it's simplest form of understanding. "God CREATED the World, who is JESUS, the Spirit", and not as Christ in Flesh bone and Blood. did you get that? while God, Jesus, was in HUMAN FLESH .... with blood made NOTHING. ....... come on...... THINK. but JESUS the Spirit, the Ordinal First...... MADE ALL THINGS...... (smile). this is too easy not to understand.

just as you said, "I have not joined this Forum to go into circular reasoning with you". nor I with U, but the things 101G speak is Spiritual, which I see you cannot Understand. so, until you get Spiritually educated, .......
Shalom to U 2....... (smile).

101G.

 

[Johann]

NOTE WHAT YOU SAID: "All things came into being through Him". as 101G say again, ERROR, not through him, but by him, because if one suggests through, (as through ANOTHER PERSON, this violates scripture, and scripture never violates scripture. for he was alone, and BY HIMSELF. scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

Error-a redefinition of the Hagios D'varim.

Joh 1:3 All thingsG3956 Adj-NNP panta πάντα throughG1223 Prep di’ δι’ HimG846 PPro-GM3S autou αὐτοῦ came into being,G1096 G5633 V-AIM-3S egeneto, ἐγένετο, andG2532 Conj kai καὶ withoutG5565 Prep chōris χωρὶς HimG846 PPro-GM3S autou αὐτοῦ came into beingG1096 G5633 V-AIM-3S egeneto ἐγένετο not evenG3761 Adv oude οὐδὲ one [thing]G1520 Adj-NNS hen ἕν thatG3739 RelPro-NNS ho ὃ has come into being.G1096 G5754 V-RIA-3S gegonen. γέγονεν.


Transliteration: di’
Morphology: Prep
Preposition
Strong's no.: G1223 (διά)
Meaning: (a) genitive: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) accusative: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.


Joh 1:3 All things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing which came into being. [Ps 33:6,9; Prov 30:4]
He was in the beginning with Elohim.
Joh 1:3 Everything existed through His [Yeshua] hands, and without Him, not even one thing existed of the things, which have existed.

By the Devar Hashem were Shomayim made; and all the tz'va (host) of them by the ruach (breath) of His mouth [MJ 11:3; Yn 1:1; Psa 56:5].

Psa 33:6 Through the Word of YAHWEH the heavens were made; and all their host were made by the breath of His mouth.
1Co 8:6 but to us there is one El, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him, and one Master YAHWEH, Yahshua Messiah, through whom are all things, and we by Him.

Col 1:16 For all things were created through Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether imperial thrones, or dominions, or angelic orders, or authorities, all things were in His hand and have been created by Him.

Col 1:16 οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα τα εν τοις ουρανοις και τα επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται

Heb 1:2 in these last days He has spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed heir of all; and by whom he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3 for He is the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His being, and upholding all things by the power of His Word; having made purification of our sins through Himself, He sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, (Psa. 110:1)

He was NOT all alone and by Himself brother-but I have posted numerous times, debunking your assertions WITH Scriptures.
Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

Listen, this is your down fall, listen to yourself, "If God created the world, did Jesus ever create anything?"

My downfall?
Yes, Yeshua the Memra and the Ruach and Elohim was right there in the creation of the world. And at the 2Aorist became something He was NOT before-in the likeness of Man.

just as you said, "I have not joined this Forum to go into circular reasoning with you". nor I with U, but the things 101G speak is Spiritual, which I see you cannot Understand. so, until you get Spiritually educated, .......
Shalom to U 2....... (smile).

You are "smiling" at my downfall and so called ignorance?
There are things Johann post that goes beyond the understanding of @101G
Shalom
J.

 

[101G]

You said Jesus was not "actively involved in the Creation account" How do you answer with the Scriptures in front of your eyes?

there you go again, 101G never said that. LISTEN to what 101G said, Jesus .... the CHRIST, the CHRIST, the CHRIST, was not at Genesis 1:1 but JESUS was. My God U just don't listen .... do U?

JPS 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
ONK 1:27 And the Lord created(7) the Adam in His image, in the image of the Lord(8) He created him; male and female He created them.
PAL 1:27 And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him, with two hundred and forty and eight members, with three hundred and sixty and five nerves, and over-laid them with skin, and filled it with flesh and blood. Male and female in their bodies He created them.
JER 1:27 And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.

now you do believe the Lord Jesus correct? I hope so. well Listen to the Lord Jesus .... the CHRIST. this is the Lord Jesus Speaking, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," he here is God, a single person. now think J, did the Christ say, WE Made Man in Our Image? no he said "God" made man male and female, a single person. so ONLY "ONE" PERSON was at Genesis chapter 1, Hello. now if you cannot believe the Lord Jesus, then we really have nothing to talk to each other about.

if one cannot believe the Lord Jesus then they are still in IGNORANCE.

101G.