The Water Baptism of Cornelius

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
There is seen in 1 John 1 a Semitic writing style starting with verse 5. It starts a CONTRAST between Light vs. Darkness.

5 LIGHT
6 DARKNESS
7 LIGHT
8 DARKNESS
9 LIGHT
10 DARKNESS

Once you recognize what the apostle meant, you will see we must focus on 1 John 1:7 and WALK in the Spirit. That is because the apostles also use key words. In chapters one and two the key word is "SAY". Now you can see a contrast between those who just talk the talk vs. those who walk the walk. We are commanded to WALK IN THE SPIRIT.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

You didn't answer my question-is the "old man" in the believer somehow surgically removed?

As to the rest we can agree-up to a point.

Bob Carabbio · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
I guess baptismal regeneration is what he has in mind.

Yup!! THEY won't tell you that, but that's what it means. Baptism isn't a "Sacrement" (there aren't any of those). It's just a testimonial ordinance.

Bob Carabbio · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
A question-would you say the sinful nature in man -regenerate-is somehow "surgically removed" being IN Christ?

There's NO SUCH THING as a "Sinful Nature". What exists, is a HUMAN NATURE which may or may not, under temptation and enticement commit sinful acts.

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

Bob Carabbio said:
There's NO SUCH THING as a "Sinful Nature". What exists, is a HUMAN NATURE which may or may not, under temptation and enticement commit sinful acts.

Better still-the "old man" can commit ACTS of missing the mark, albeit not living in a STATE of habitual sinning.

charismaticlady · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
You didn't answer my question-is the "old man" in the believer somehow surgically removed?

As to the rest we can agree-up to a point.

You can read Romans 6:5-7 for the answer. It is not removed surgically but supernaturally removed. On Feb. 9, 1977 I actually felt a great heaviness lift out of me and I had not more desire to morally and mortally sin.

John talks of two types of sin which even the Catholics see in their doctrine of mortal and venial sins. 1 John 3:4 shows the type of sin that the next verse is taken away - lawlessness/sins unto death. This makes us clean, and means we are sinless. But Jesus said he wants us to be perfect. That takes a long time but He does it in our own lifetime in those who abide in Him and continue to abide in Him while He prunes the fruit of the Spirit towards "never stumbling" 2 Peter 1:5-11.

As for sinlessness before the maturity of all the fruit look at John 15:1-4. There you will see we are sinless of lawlessness called clean (cleansed of all unrighteousness.
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Revelation 22:11 shows two stages of sinlessness. Righteousness, which is the sinlessness of lawlessness 1 John 3:7, and Holiness which is perfection where we never stumble and has to do the the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit.

Bob Carabbio · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
Better still-the "old man" can commit ACTS of missing the mark, albeit not living in a STATE of habitual sinning.

Absolutely TRUE. The "Old man" was Crucified with Christ - but his effect, appetite, and lusts are still with us, as we mature in the FAITH.

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
You can read Romans 6:5-7 for the answer. It is not removed surgically but supernaturally removed. On Feb. 9, 1977 I actually felt a great heaviness lift out of me and I had not more desire to morally and mortally sin.

John talks of two types of sin which even the Catholics see in their doctrine of mortal and venial sins. 1 John 3:4 shows the type of sin that the next verse is taken away - lawlessness/sins unto death. This makes us clean, and means we are sinless. But Jesus said he wants us to be perfect. That takes a long time but He does it in our own lifetime in those who abide in Him and continue to abide in Him while He prunes the fruit of the Spirit towards "never stumbling" 2 Peter 1:5-11.

As for sinlessness before the maturity of all the fruit look at John 15:1-4. There you will see we are sinless of lawlessness called clean (cleansed of all unrighteousness.
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Revelation 22:11 shows two stages of sinlessness. Righteousness, which is the sinlessness of lawlessness 1 John 3:7, and Holiness which is perfection where we never stumble and has to do the the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit.

So you do advocate sinless perfection-what about the sins of omission/intentional and unintentional?

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

Bob Carabbio said:
Absolutely TRUE. The "Old man" was Crucified with Christ - but his effect, appetite, and lusts are still with us, as we mature in the FAITH.

Well said @Bob Carabbio

charismaticlady · Dec 2, 2023

Bob Carabbio said:
There's NO SUCH THING as a "Sinful Nature". What exists, is a HUMAN NATURE which may or may not, under temptation and enticement commit sinful acts.

@Johann

The old man IS the sin nature. The human nature was what Adam was created with. When Adam sinned all mankind including Adam and Eve went under the influence of Satan in their nature. This sin in our very nature is what was taken away and where - the source - the nature.

1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Now after the old man was crucified, we are now resurrected to partake of the divine nature of God.

charismaticlady · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
So you do advocate sinless perfection-what about the sins of omission/intentional and unintentional?

I advocate sinlessness, not sinless perfection. Perfection is a long, long way down the line in our life after lawlessness, sins unto death have been taken out of us taking us from death to eternal life. The sins not unto death are from immature fruit and why 1 John 1:7 shows a man walking in the Spirit and Jesus is still cleansing us from some kind of sin, but not lawlessness (breaking a commandment of God), but are those you mentioned. Look at 2 Peter 1:5-11 as it doesn't seem you looked it up.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [b]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What I find hilarious is the adding of "practice" to verses in 1 John. So you don't practice murder?" How good of you! The correct word is commit, meaning even once.

cc: @Bob Carabbio and @Fred

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
I advocate sinlessness, not sinless perfection. Perfection is a long, long way down the line in our life after lawlessness, sins unto death have been taken out of us taking us from death to eternal life. The sins not unto death are from immature fruit and why 1 John 1:7 shows a man walking in the Spirit and Jesus is still cleansing us from some kind of sin, but not lawlessness (breaking a commandment of God), but are those you mentioned. Look at 2 Peter 1:5-11 as it doesn't seem you looked it up.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [b]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I am familiar with these scripture references but don't agree as to sinlessness in THIS life-stands to reason that IF a man is sinless he is also perfect as I always look at the antithesis of Scriptures and an argument/opinion. Not saying YOU are arguing.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Heirs with Christ
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Future Glory
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How would you exegete Romans 7? Paul the regenerate/unregenerate man?

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
What I find hilarious is the adding of "practice" to verses in 1 John. So you don't practice murder?" How good of you! The correct word is commit, meaning even once.

cc: @Bob Carabbio and @Fred

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
What I find hilarious is the adding of "practice" to verses in 1 John. So you don't practice murder?" How good of you! The correct word is commit, meaning even once.

“If we say that we have not
sinned, we make Him a liar, and
His Word is not in us” (I John
1:10).

Paul also speaks of “the law
of sin which is in my members”
(Rom. 7:23) and urges constant
reliance upon the Holy Spirit for
overcoming power (Rom. 8:11-13;
Gal. 5:16,25).

Indeed, if the doctrine of eradication were Scripturally sound there would be no
reason for Paul to instruct all believers to deal with the old nature,
in such terms as: “reckon,” “yield
not,” “put off,” “mortify,” etc.

But let us suppose for the moment that it were possible to
achieve the eradication of the
flesh; would that also dispose of
our other two enemies, the world
and the devil? Surely not, and
having gotten rid only of the fallen nature of Adam, we would, like
Adam before the fall, be as subject to temptation from without
as he, and would as surely fall.

But the Scriptures clearly teach
that we all fell once in Adam:
“by one man sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men, for
that all have sinned” (Rom. 5:12).

THE NEW NATURE
IN THE BELIEVER
It has been well said that if
there is anything good in any man
it is because it was put there by
God. And something good—a new,
sinless nature—has been imparted
by God to every believer.
While there is still within us
“that which is begotten of the
flesh,” there is also “that which
is begotten of the Spirit,” and just
as the one is totally depraved and
“cannot please God,” so the other
is absolutely perfect and always
pleases Him.

Adam was originally created
in the image and likeness of God,
but he fell into sin and later “begat
a son in HIS OWN likeness, after
HIS image” (Gen. 5:3). It could not
be otherwise. Fallen Adam could
generate and beget only fallen,
sinful offspring, whom even the
law could not change. But “what
the law could not do, in that it was
weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and
for sin,” accomplished, “that the
righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”
(Rom. 8:3,4).

As Adam was made in the likeness of God, but fell, so Christ was
made in the likeness of sinful
flesh, to redeem us from the fall,
that by grace, through the operation of the Spirit, a new creation
might be brought into being, a
“new man...renewed in knowledge
after the image of Him that created him” (Col. 3:10) a “new man,
which, after God is created in
righteousness and true holiness”
(Eph. 4:24).

John, who does not go as far
as the symbol of the new creation
in this connection, nevertheless
refers to the impartation of the
new nature to believers, when he
says:
“Whosoever is born [begotten]
of God doth not commit sin, for
his seed remaineth in him: and
he cannot sin, because he is born
[begotten] of God” (I John 3:9).
14 Berean Searchlight
“We know that whosoever is
born [begotten] of God sinneth
not...” (I John 5:18).

It is evident that the “whosoever,” here, does not refer to the
individual as such, but to that
part of the individual which Paul
calls the “new man,” for we have
already seen that John, in this
same epistle, declares that if we
say we have no sin we deceive
ourselves and make God a liar.

It
is the new nature in the believer
that cannot sin, for it is the new
nature, not the old, that was begotten of God.

Thus in addition to our fallen
Adamic nature we, through faith,
have also become “partakers of the
divine nature” (II Pet. 1:4). This
is the “inner man” of which Paul
speaks in Ephesians 3:16, and
this “inward man” delights to do
God’s will (Rom. 7:22).

Let us thank God that the old
nature is under the condemnation
of death. Judicially it has already
been dealt with. It was put to
death representatively in Christ.

Practically it will come to its end
when our “earthly house...is dissolved” (II Cor. 5:1) or when we
are “changed” (I Cor. 15:52) and
“caught up...to meet the Lord in
the air” (I Thes. 4:17), but the new
nature—that which is begotten of
God—will never die.

In the first
place it does not come under the
condemnation of sin. In the second, it is that which is begotten,
“not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever”
(I Pet. 1:23).

Paul, by the Spirit, gives particular emphasis to this fact as it
affects believers in this present
dispensation, for we are not only
“begotten” of the Spirit and given
the resurrection life of Christ, but
we belong to the “new creation”
(II Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10) which God
will glorify “in the ages to come,”
in order to “show the exceeding
riches of His grace” (Eph. 2:7).

We have now cleared the way
for a consideration of the conflict
between the old nature and the
new, and of the means placed at
our disposal to overcome the old.

THE CONFLICT BETWEEN
THE OLD AND NEW
NATURES

The epistles of Paul have much
to say about the conflict continually going on between the old and
new natures in the believer. God
has a gracious purpose in permitting this conflict and it has its
real advantages to the believer;
also, abundant provision has been
made for spiritual victory in any
given case, but before considering
all this, let us deal first with the
fact of the conflict itself.
Concerning this conflict, the
Apostle Paul writes, by inspiration:
“For the flesh lusteth against
the Spirit, and the Spirit against
the flesh: and these are contrary
the one to the other: so that ye
cannot do the things that ye
would” (Gal. 5:17).

Regarding this conflict in his
own personal experience, he
writes:
“For the good that I would I do
not: but the evil which I would
not, that I do.”
“For I delight in the law of God
after the inward man:

--much more can be said, but this will suffice.

charismaticlady · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
“If we say that we have not
sinned, we make Him a liar, and
His Word is not in us” (I John
1:10).

Paul also speaks of “the law
of sin which is in my members”
(Rom. 7:23) and urges constant
reliance upon the Holy Spirit for
overcoming power (Rom. 8:11-13;
Gal. 5:16,25).

Indeed, if the doctrine of eradication were Scripturally sound there would be no
reason for Paul to instruct all believers to deal with the old nature,
in such terms as: “reckon,” “yield
not,” “put off,” “mortify,” etc.

But let us suppose for the moment that it were possible to
achieve the eradication of the
flesh; would that also dispose of
our other two enemies, the world
and the devil? Surely not, and
having gotten rid only of the fallen nature of Adam, we would, like
Adam before the fall, be as subject to temptation from without
as he, and would as surely fall.

But the Scriptures clearly teach
that we all fell once in Adam:
“by one man sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men, for
that all have sinned” (Rom. 5:12).

THE NEW NATURE
IN THE BELIEVER
It has been well said that if
there is anything good in any man
it is because it was put there by
God. And something good—a new,
sinless nature—has been imparted
by God to every believer.
While there is still within us
“that which is begotten of the
flesh,” there is also “that which
is begotten of the Spirit,” and just
as the one is totally depraved and
“cannot please God,” so the other
is absolutely perfect and always
pleases Him.

Adam was originally created
in the image and likeness of God,
but he fell into sin and later “begat
a son in HIS OWN likeness, after
HIS image” (Gen. 5:3). It could not
be otherwise. Fallen Adam could
generate and beget only fallen,
sinful offspring, whom even the
law could not change. But “what
the law could not do, in that it was
weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and
for sin,” accomplished, “that the
righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”
(Rom. 8:3,4).

As Adam was made in the likeness of God, but fell, so Christ was
made in the likeness of sinful
flesh, to redeem us from the fall,
that by grace, through the operation of the Spirit, a new creation
might be brought into being, a
“new man...renewed in knowledge
after the image of Him that created him” (Col. 3:10) a “new man,
which, after God is created in
righteousness and true holiness”
(Eph. 4:24).

John, who does not go as far
as the symbol of the new creation
in this connection, nevertheless
refers to the impartation of the
new nature to believers, when he
says:
“Whosoever is born [begotten]
of God doth not commit sin, for
his seed remaineth in him: and
he cannot sin, because he is born
[begotten] of God” (I John 3:9).
14 Berean Searchlight
“We know that whosoever is
born [begotten] of God sinneth
not...” (I John 5:18).

It is evident that the “whosoever,” here, does not refer to the
individual as such, but to that
part of the individual which Paul
calls the “new man,” for we have
already seen that John, in this
same epistle, declares that if we
say we have no sin we deceive
ourselves and make God a liar.

It
is the new nature in the believer
that cannot sin, for it is the new
nature, not the old, that was begotten of God.

Thus in addition to our fallen
Adamic nature we, through faith,
have also become “partakers of the
divine nature” (II Pet. 1:4). This
is the “inner man” of which Paul
speaks in Ephesians 3:16, and
this “inward man” delights to do
God’s will (Rom. 7:22).

Let us thank God that the old
nature is under the condemnation
of death. Judicially it has already
been dealt with. It was put to
death representatively in Christ.

Practically it will come to its end
when our “earthly house...is dissolved” (II Cor. 5:1) or when we
are “changed” (I Cor. 15:52) and
“caught up...to meet the Lord in
the air” (I Thes. 4:17), but the new
nature—that which is begotten of
God—will never die.

In the first
place it does not come under the
condemnation of sin. In the second, it is that which is begotten,
“not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever”
(I Pet. 1:23).

Paul, by the Spirit, gives particular emphasis to this fact as it
affects believers in this present
dispensation, for we are not only
“begotten” of the Spirit and given
the resurrection life of Christ, but
we belong to the “new creation”
(II Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10) which God
will glorify “in the ages to come,”
in order to “show the exceeding
riches of His grace” (Eph. 2:7).

We have now cleared the way
for a consideration of the conflict
between the old nature and the
new, and of the means placed at
our disposal to overcome the old.

THE CONFLICT BETWEEN
THE OLD AND NEW
NATURES

The epistles of Paul have much
to say about the conflict continually going on between the old and
new natures in the believer. God
has a gracious purpose in permitting this conflict and it has its
real advantages to the believer;
also, abundant provision has been
made for spiritual victory in any
given case, but before considering
all this, let us deal first with the
fact of the conflict itself.
Concerning this conflict, the
Apostle Paul writes, by inspiration:
“For the flesh lusteth against
the Spirit, and the Spirit against
the flesh: and these are contrary
the one to the other: so that ye
cannot do the things that ye
would” (Gal. 5:17).

Regarding this conflict in his
own personal experience, he
writes:
“For the good that I would I do
not: but the evil which I would
not, that I do.”
“For I delight in the law of God
after the inward man:

--much more can be said, but this will suffice.

I've seen you use Romans 7:23 and then 22. I believe you think of yourself as a scholar, but both of those verses are about the unsaved, just as 1 John 1:8 and 10 are. Go back and read Romans 7 is the context it was meant to be understood. Romans 7:5 to Romans 8:9 The saved are no longer in the flesh, meaning carnal nature.

Johann · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
I've seen you use Romans 7:23 and then 22. I believe you think of yourself as a scholar, but both of those verses are about the unsaved, just as 1 John 1:8 and 10 are. Go back and read Romans 7 is the context it was meant to be understood. Romans 7:5 to Romans 8:9 The saved are no longer in the flesh, meaning carnal nature.

Every believer is engaged in an ongoing spiritual warfare that takes place within us. Ephesians 4:22-24 identifies the combatants as the “old man” or old nature, and the “new man” or new nature. These two are constantly at odds, seeking to either pull us as believers into some form of sinful activity or pull us toward Christ-honoring conduct.

The Apostle Paul acknowledged that he too struggled as this warfare waged within him. He stated, “For what I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I” (Romans 7:15). Every believer can experientially identify with this inner conflict. We want to live apart from sin, as did Paul, but the “… sin [nature] that dwelleth in me” (vs. 17, 20b) is constantly luring us away from the proper path.

When believers are in a good place spiritually, they can say with Paul, “…I delight in the law of God after the inward man” (vs. 22). Why, then, if we yearn to live for Christ and do what is pleasing to Him, do we so often fail in sin? Romans 7:23 describes it this way, “But I see another law (or fixed principle) in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

The bad news is that this unseen spiritual conflict will continue within us until the day we go home to be with Christ or until He comes for us in the Rapture.

The good news is twofold. One day we will be free of this conflict. The old nature will be eradicated when we are taken to our heavenly home. Then we will live in continual victory. But until then, we have God’s written Word and indwelling Holy Spirit to strengthen our new nature. To the extent we avail ourselves of both, we’ll find victory.

You are not alone in this battle or in failures. Stay homesick for heaven, stay in the Word, and seek to yield yourself to the Holy Spirit.

Let's just say-agree to disagree and I am no scholar.

jeremiah1five · Dec 2, 2023

charismaticlady said:
and @Fred and @Johann and @Bob Carabbio

I have found an ugly truth in the Church, the Bride of Christ who is to be spotless and without blame. Those who read 1 John 2:1 NEVER underline or highlight the message that "

Do you agree the Bride is Israel betrothed to God?

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day,
I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens,
And they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;
And they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
And I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people;
And they shall say, Thou art my God.
Hosea 2:19–23.

charismaticlady said:
No! They instead highlight the rest of the verse who is for all mankind. Jesus didn't die just for Christians, but for the whole world. THAT is the "any man."

But are not those words spoken to a people in covenant with God and are thus the context of the subject of "any man" (in covenant)?

jeremiah1five · Dec 2, 2023

@charismaticlady @Johann
When reading and considering Scripture it is important to consider two perspectives that exist in each line of reasoning and thought, that is, the eternal perspective of God in which He sees the born-again believer as sinless, holy, righteous; and the perspective of man in time, that is, I am a sinner and will sin to the day I die.

In our born-again conversion we are not given a sinless nature but retain the sinful nature we are born with, and Adam and the woman were created with.

Death is the penalty for sin. We die and thus are suffering the penalty for sin even as our sin nature has been atoned on the cross and imputation has been performed in which we are imputed His righteous nature, and He was imputed our sinful nature which is what killed Him.

When God contemplated His elect He contemplated them as saved, holy, sinless, for that is the only way God can contemplate this people for there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. He is life, and the light of His elect people. It was by virtue of the created man that He "blew" His elect into the loins of the man, and we became "lost" by virtue of the miracle of life blown into the nostrils of Adam. God ever sees His elect as saved, holy, and sinless. That is His Eternal perspective of His elect. We may partake of the divine nature, but we are not divine nature. If this was so we would not die. But we come to death because of our sin nature in this existence. There will be those who will not necessarily taste death for at His coming while we stand, we shall be changed, in the twinkle-twinkle of His eye and the last visage of our salvation is complete. When Christ returns, He is bringing something with Him and that is the completion of our salvation. Before our conversion we are body and soul, no human spirit. After conversion we are restored to trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit. And added to that is our partaking of the divine nature in the unction (or down payment) of the Holy Spirit within us. Since our carnal mind is enmity against God and our mind is part of our soul, and our body is definitely sinful, the only aspect of our converted make-up that is holy, sinless, and righteous is the human spirit God creates anew in us. So, in a sense it can be said we are one-third saved in time, but from God's Eternal perspective we are sinless, holy, and righteous.
My thoughts.
Now, Go! See if you can sin no more.

charismaticlady · Dec 2, 2023

Johann said:
Every believer is engaged in an ongoing spiritual warfare that takes place within us. Ephesians 4:22-24 identifies the combatants as the “old man” or old nature, and the “new man” or new nature. These two are constantly at odds, seeking to either pull us as believers into some form of sinful activity or pull us toward Christ-honoring conduct.

The Apostle Paul acknowledged that he too struggled as this warfare waged within him. He stated, “For what I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I” (Romans 7:15). Every believer can experientially identify with this inner conflict. We want to live apart from sin, as did Paul, but the “… sin [nature] that dwelleth in me” (vs. 17, 20b) is constantly luring us away from the proper path.

When believers are in a good place spiritually, they can say with Paul, “…I delight in the law of God after the inward man” (vs. 22). Why, then, if we yearn to live for Christ and do what is pleasing to Him, do we so often fail in sin? Romans 7:23 describes it this way, “But I see another law (or fixed principle) in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

The bad news is that this unseen spiritual conflict will continue within us until the day we go home to be with Christ or until He comes for us in the Rapture.

The good news is twofold. One day we will be free of this conflict. The old nature will be eradicated when we are taken to our heavenly home. Then we will live in continual victory. But until then, we have God’s written Word and indwelling Holy Spirit to strengthen our new nature. To the extent we avail ourselves of both, we’ll find victory.

You are not alone in this battle or in failures. Stay homesick for heaven, stay in the Word, and seek to yield yourself to the Holy Spirit.

Let's just say-agree to disagree and I am no scholar.

Paul is teaching the Ephesians the same things he taught the Romans. The old man is not saved. It needs to repent and be filled with the Holy Spirit to be crucified and resurrected free from sin. Romans 6:5-7 "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Johann, don't stay in the dark.

Seabass · Dec 3, 2023

Bob Carabbio said:
Totally FALSE!!! The new birth occurs when one is infilled by the Holy Spirit, when they call on God in FAITH for salvation.

THEN Baptism in water is appropriate.

Jn 3:5--------born of water and of Spirit >>>>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
Mt 7:21-----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom

Being born again does not happen until one does the will of the Father by submitting to water baptism as the Father commands all men to be water baptized.

Lk 6:46 why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say. This means calling in the Lord means DOING what the Lord says in repenting Lk 13:3, confession Mt 10:32-33 and baptism Mk 15:16 whereby salvation is impossible from DOING what the Lord says.

Salvation of the gospel is not subjective, unconditional, capricious event as you claim.

Seabass · Dec 3, 2023

Fred said:
By sinning they are continuing in sin.

They had a fornicator among them and did nothing about it. As long as they did nothing about this sin they continued in this sin and Paul is telling them they cannot continue to live in sins as this. He is not saying men can live sinlessly for 1 Jn 1:7 says Christians do sin and lie if they say the have no sin.

If a person living in adutlery converts to Christianity he cannot continue living in dultery but repent and get out of that adulterous state or he has not converted.

Lk 6:1 says of John's parents;
"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Blameless does not mean they lived perfectly life and did not sin. They did sin but they did not continue to live in their sins for they walked in God's commandments which means they offered the appropriate sacrifices for the sins and therfore God fogave them so they were righteous and balmeless in God's sight.

They lived under the OT law but the same idea is found in the NT for Christians in 1 Jn 1:7
As longs as the Christian walks in the light the blood of Christ continues to wash away ALL sins.

Christians do sin 1 Jn 1:7-10 as John's parents but Christian cannot conitune to live in those sins but being obedient as Hohn's parents and walk accorind to GOd's will and Christ's blood washes away ALL sins leaving the Christian blameless, righteous before God.

"do not sin" does not mean impossible to sin. A road sigh says do not exceed 35 mph. This does not mean it's impossible to go faster than 35 mph for one can do so and sin. Do not sin means one cannot go faster than 35 and continue doing so.....one cannot live in adultery and continue to do so and expect to be saved.

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