The Unconditional Election Debate: An Universalist Perspective

[TomL]

I thank you for that, TomL.

Just a final thought... you don't need to answer me.
Did Jesus command "Respect your enemies" or "Love your enemies"?
Did Jesus use the story of the Good Samaritan and the wounded Jew to show "respect for people of other religion" or "love for people of other religion"?

Love your enemies

Certain ones are best loved by telling them the truth rather than by affirming them in their error

 

[Dizerner]

is your faith in self or God.. thats the question on OSAS.

That's the thing, it's YOUR faith. So you have to HAVE faith.

Stop having faith, and there is no Scripture anywhere that says the unbelieving will inherit the kingdom through a nanosecond of faith years ago.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I agree.
Universalists don't believe that God forces anything on anyone.
In the same way you were not forced to love God, but persuaded (after X amount of years or circumstances or difficulties), they will be persuaded, after their own needed suffering.

If God's mercy is eternal, it means that it never gives up. It keeps insisting, insisting, insisting, insisting....

but universalism is a lie..

if God was just going to forgive everyone, he did not need to send his son to die for us.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Amen, but humans NEED grace.

We cannot be saved without grace working in our hearts.

Grace is God gift.

His word works in our hearts and draws us to him. how we react to his word will determine our future

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

As long as you don't deny Christ's statement "without Me you can do nothing," I would consider you Biblical.

But when people start saying they need no internal work of grace, they are standing on the ground of self-righteousness.

Work of grace again this is a catholic term.

GOD works in our hearts. through the Holy Spirit and his word.

Its not Grace per say. Grace again is unearned. the mere fact you and I can have this discussion is because of Gods grace.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That's the thing, it's YOUR faith. So you have to HAVE faith.

Stop having faith, and there is no Scripture anywhere that says the unbelieving will inherit the kingdom through a nanosecond of faith years ago.

It is my faith in God.

there is no scripture anywhere that says once he has saved me and given me the promise of eternal life. that I will be let go and return to my former state.,

Sadly people say they trust god. when in fact their are trusting in self. not God.. They think they can overpower God and force god to break his promise

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

By your pitiful standard, and really, who cares what you think?

Well, I care and you care. If we are exchanging views in this Forum it is because we care about what each other thinks and posts.

Besides, my standard is not pitiful. It is the same high standard that Jesus demands from all of us.
I'm not inventing a new concept of love or mercy or justice. Am I?
My concept of love, mercy of justice is the one YOU, DIZERNER, USE EVERY DAY, as a child of God in which the Holy Spirit dwells.

Are you going to rock God's throne because you call him a failure?

The Only and True God who sits in a throne is victorious. So, why would I try to rock his throne calling him a failure?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

It is my faith in God.

there is no scripture anywhere that says once he has saved me and given me the promise of eternal life. that I will be let go and return to my former state.,

Sadly people say they trust god. when in fact their are trusting in self. not God.. They think they can overpower God and force god to break his promise

Great words, my friend.
Dear @Dizerner:

Try to learn the lesson Eternally-Grateful is sharing with us.
He does no live in the terror of sin and damnation, but in the peace and joy of salvation.
According to Paul, one of the fruits of the spirit is joy. Another is peace.
Please examine how much joy and peace you have in your life, and how much that joy and peace is conveyed in your posts.

 

[TedT]

What is worse: to be mortal or to be eternally evil? You say that beings created in God’s image cannot cease to exist, but oddly enough, can be evil forever.
It is absurd.

Absurd from your pov but you don't deny the syllogism.

They are created to be eternal then
they make a choice that sets them outside of any power that can cure their addiction to evil,
ergo, they are evil forever.

I see it bumps against some deep preconceptions in you but where does this go wrong?

 

[TedT]

What will evil resurrected people do for eternity?

These are the few who are condemned to banishment to the outer darkness. What they do there I cannot conceive but their banishment protects HIS heavenly Kingdom, HIS Bride, from their predations.

 

[Dizerner]

Try to learn the lesson Eternally-Grateful is sharing with us.

I learn my lessons from Jesus, not either of you.

And he said, he who endures to the end is saved, and take heed when you stand lest you fall.

Hundreds of warnings will not be disrespected and dismissed by me at his Judgment.

I will choose the Fear of God.

 

[Dizerner]

The Only and True God who sits in a throne is victorious. So, why would I try to rock his throne calling him a failure?

Your pride, your selfishness, your telling him what YOU think makes him a failure.

The presumption and audacity of that.

He defines the goals.

 

[Dizerner]

Work of grace again this is a catholic term.

It is GOD who is at WORK in YOU.

Try Bible.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I learn my lessons from Jesus, not either of you.

And he said, he who endures to the end is saved, and take heed when you stand lest you fall.

Hundreds of warnings will not be disrespected and dismissed by me at his Judgment.

I will choose the Fear of God.

He is talking to those alive in the tribulation period.

I have eternal life. I have Gods promise I will never perish. And I have his spieit in me as a pledge until I am ressurected.

I guess you trust in self. like I said earlier.. Good luck with that.. PS. Endure for salvation. that would be perfection.. You already failed. good luck with making up for your sins

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is GOD who is at WORK in YOU.

Try Bible.

That's Not grace,

it is because of Grace,

God is at work in me, through his word. through his power and through his spirit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Your pride, your selfishness, your telling him what YOU think makes him a failure.

The presumption and audacity of that.

He defines the goals.

Yes,

His defined goal is perfection.

Only one person met that goal. His name was Jesus.

the rest of us have no hope apart from the grace and security found in Christ

 

[TedT]

Until you are born again, you are not a son.

Ummm, please consider: that it is HIS sheep who go astray into sin Implies they are HIS family before they became sinful...

It is a prodigal son who returns from sin city to be accepted since he is still family, a legitimate son who went astray into sin but who returned.

It is the sinful people of HIS kingdom who are sown into this world to be redeemed and sanctified Matt 13:36-38, while in verse 13:24 we are told that it is good (elect, not morally good) seed that are sown into HIS garden who must live together with the evil weeds until they are sanctified and holy, ie, the time of their harvest, verses 27-30.

ImCo,
Rebirth just restores our free will from its enslavement to sin...it doesn't make one a new part of HIS eternal family which is already a reality by election before the foundation of this world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, GodsGrace!

I got this summary from an AI search about the Dutch theologian Jacobus Arminius. I thought you may find interesting in order to understand why that theological system is called after his name:

Jacobus Arminius: A Life of Theological Inquiry and Controversy

Jacobus Arminius stands as one of the most influential theological figures of the Protestant Reformation, whose ideas would challenge the dominant Calvinist orthodoxy and create ripples that continue to influence Christian thought today. Born during a tumultuous period in Dutch history, his personal experiences of loss and academic pursuits shaped a theological mind that would question prevailing doctrines on predestination, grace, and human free will.

Early Life and Family Tragedy

Jacobus Arminius, born Jacob Hermanszoon, entered the world on October 10, 1560, in Oudewater, Utrecht, in the Netherlands. His early life was marked by profound tragedy, as his father Herman, a weapons manufacturer, died while Jacob was still an infant, leaving his mother to care for him and his siblings alone[1][3][4]. This early loss was only the beginning of tragedy for young Jacob. In 1575, when he was approximately fifteen years old, Spanish forces massacred the inhabitants of his hometown of Oudewater, and his mother was among those killed in this brutal attack[4][5][7]. These early experiences of personal tragedy undoubtedly influenced his later theological reflections on providence, suffering, and divine sovereignty.

Before his mother's death, Jacob had been adopted by Theodorus Aemilius, a priest who had Protestant leanings. Aemilius ensured that the young boy received an education at Utrecht, likely at the Hieronymusschool[4][5]. Following Aemilius's death around 1574 or 1575, Arminius came under the care of Rudolph Snellius, a mathematician who also hailed from Oudewater[5]. This new benefactor played a crucial role in Arminius's academic development, bringing him to Marburg and facilitating his enrollment at the newly established University of Leiden[5].

Education and Intellectual Formation

Arminius's formal education began at the University of Leiden, where he studied from 1576 to 1582[3][5][8]. Though officially enrolled as a student of liberal arts, this arrangement allowed him to pursue theological studies as well[5]. During his time at Leiden, Arminius studied under several notable theologians who would influence his intellectual development, including Lambertus Danaeus, Johannes Drusius, Guillaume Feuguereius, and Johann Kolmann[3][8]. Kolmann's teachings were particularly significant, as he criticized high Calvinism for portraying God as "a tyrant and an executioner"—a critique that would later resonate in Arminius's own theological work[3][5].

Following his studies at Leiden, Arminius continued his education under Theodore Beza at Geneva in 1582[3][5]. Beza, Calvin's successor at Geneva, represented the stricter interpretations of Calvin's theology that would later become the focus of Arminius's critiques. During this period of study, Arminius also visited the University of Padua and even traveled to Rome, broadening his exposure to different theological and philosophical traditions before returning to Geneva[1].

Ministry and Academic Career

After completing his education, Arminius was called to serve as a pastor in Amsterdam, where he was ordained in 1588[1][3][7]. His ministry in Amsterdam proved successful, and he developed a reputation as both an effective preacher and a devoted pastor[3]. In 1590, he married Lijsbet Reael, establishing his family life alongside his growing ministry[3][5][8].

During his fourteen years of ministry in Amsterdam, Arminius was generally popular, though his evolving theological views occasionally brought him into conflict with more strictly Calvinist ministers[7]. A pivotal moment in his theological development came in 1589 when the ecclesiastical senate of Amsterdam requested that he respond to the teachings of Dirck Coornhert[7]. Coornhert had challenged several Calvinist doctrines, including predestination, justification, and the punishment of heretics by death. Initially tasked with refuting Coornhert's views, Arminius instead found himself agreeing with many of Coornhert's arguments after careful study of Scripture, the church fathers, and later theological writings[7].

In 1603, Arminius's career took a significant turn when he was appointed professor of theology at the University of Leiden[1][3][4][5][6][7]. This prestigious position allowed him to develop and articulate his theological views more systematically, but it also placed him at the center of growing theological controversies. The last six years of his life at Leiden were dominated by theological disputes, particularly with his colleague Franciscus Gomarus, who staunchly defended the strict Calvinist position on predestination[1].

Theological Development and Controversy

Arminius's theological journey is particularly noteworthy for its evolution. In his early years, he affirmed the traditional Calvinist view of predestination, which held that God had predetermined who would be saved and who would be damned even before Adam's fall[1][4]. However, through his studies and reflections, he gradually came to question this position, finding it "too harsh" and problematic in its implications about God's character and human moral responsibility[1][3].

The core of Arminius's developing theology centered on his modified understanding of predestination. Rather than seeing God's election as unconditional and determined before the creation of the world, Arminius came to believe in a conditional election, teaching that "The divine decree of predestination is not absolute, but conditioned upon God's foreknowledge of faith"[1]. This position preserved God's sovereignty while making room for human free will in the process of salvation.

Despite the controversies his views generated, Arminius considered his theology to be harmonious with Calvin's essential teachings and within the bounds of Reformed orthodoxy[4]. Nevertheless, his positions on predestination, free will, and grace were perceived as significant departures from Calvinist orthodoxy by his contemporaries, particularly by strict Calvinists like Gomarus.

Death and Legacy

Jacobus Arminius died on October 19, 1609, in Leiden at the age of 49, leaving behind a theological legacy that would continue to develop and influence Protestant Christianity for centuries to come[1][3][4]. Following his death, his followers systematized his teachings, and in 1610, they formalized his views in the Five Articles of Remonstrance[3][6]. These followers, known as Remonstrants, continued to advocate for Arminius's theological positions within the Dutch Reformed Church[3][5][6].

The controversy surrounding Arminius's teachings reached a climax at the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), where his views were officially condemned by the Dutch Reformed Church[3][4][5]. In response to the five points of the Remonstrants, the Synod formulated what would later become known as the five points of Calvinism (often remembered by the acronym TULIP), directly countering Arminian positions[6].

Despite this official condemnation, Arminius's works continued to circulate, published in Latin at Leiden in 1629 and at Frankfurt in 1631 and 1635[3][6]. Over time, his theology gained wider acceptance and official "toleration" within the Netherlands[3]. More significantly, Arminius's theological perspective spread beyond the Netherlands to influence broader Protestant thought, particularly among Methodists and Baptists in England and the United States[4].

Conclusion

Jacobus Arminius's life journey from an orphaned child to one of the most influential theological voices of his era reflects both personal resilience and intellectual courage. Through personal tragedy, rigorous education, pastoral ministry, and academic teaching, he developed a theological perspective that challenged dominant views and offered an alternative understanding of God's relationship with humanity. Though controversial in his time, his emphasis on God's universal love, human moral responsibility, and the conditional nature of election continues to resonate with many Christians today, ensuring that his theological contributions remain relevant more than four centuries after his death.

Sources
[1] Jacobus Arminius | Biography, Arminianism, Beliefs, & Facts https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jacobus-Arminius
[2] An Introduction to James Arminius - Holy Joys https://holyjoys.org/an-introduction-to-james-jacobus-arminius/
[3] Jacobus Arminius - Theopedia https://www.theopedia.com/jacobus-arminius
[4] Jacobus Arminius - New World Encyclopedia https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Jacobus_Arminius
[5] Jacobus Arminius - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobus_Arminius
[6] Author info: Jacobus Arminius - Christian Classics Ethereal Library https://www.ccel.org/ccel/arminius
[7] Jacob Arminius founds Arminianism | Christian History Institute https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/arminius
[8] Jacobo Arminio - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobo_Arminio
[9] Who Was Jacob Arminius? - Ligonier.org https://learn.ligonier.org/articles/jacob-arminius
[10] Who was Jacobus Arminius? | GotQuestions.org https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacobus-Arminius.html
[11] Who Was Arminius? - Westminster Seminary California https://www.wscal.edu/resource/who-was-arminius/

Thanks Pancho.
It does seem that I agree with what is written above regarding Arminius.
I doubt it explains all his doctrines however.
It was thoughtful of you to post it.

Here is why I dislike being called anything except CHRISTIAN:

Those person who follow the reformed/calvinist faith are known as Calvinists because
John Calvin was the most famous teacher of this faith system.
So they follow John Calvin.

I don't follow a MAN.
I follow Jesus Christ....so CHRISTian is what I like to be called.

Also, I'd like to note that Calvinists have their very own book to follow:
It could be the Confession of 1689/The Westminster Confession/The London Confession (there might be more).

The Catholic Church also has their own book to follow:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I don't think Christianity NEEDS another book.
I think the bible is sufficient for all we need to know about God and our salvation...
our past and our future.

So, yes, it's legitimate to call someone who follows John Calvin a Calvinist.
I follow Jesus Christ...so those that follow Jesus Christ should be called Christian.

Perhaps Calvinists should be called Calvinist Christians?

The rest of us should certainly not be called Arminiuns.

 

[Dizerner]

That's Not grace, it is because of Grace, God is at work in me, through his word. through his power and through his spirit.

Eh, work in the Bible just means "action," in modern religious parlance it is associated with merit.

Work of grace does not mean working for grace, it means grace is working.

Grace does indeed do a work in our hearts.

 

[GodsGrace]

like everything here, except again, I would call it the grace or free will solution. the arminian solution has flaws as do the other two as shown in the OP

EG....read my post no. 178....just posted.
What do you think?
I follow Jesus not some guy named Arminius.

There are plenty of persons with good theology...
why would it have to be this arminius guy?....
Rhetorical question, of course.