The Trinity study ,plural references to God in the Old Testament:Plural nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs

[Capbook]

Yes exactly, Jesus represents the nature of God. That's what we're saying too. Representing the divine nature of God is something others can do too.

2 Peter 1
4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Yes, in the future, as over-comers and in God, we will become partakers of the divine nature, being renewed in the image of God, and having communion with them, so as to dwell in God and God in you.

 

[Capbook]

So, in the beginning in Genesis where God created all things through HIS word -- where scripture says 'And God said' is a contracdiction to WHAT?

If you believe God created all things through the Word, the Word in Greek "logos" defined as "speech" and etc.
And as the Word was with God, and the Word was God, not stated as "and the Word was the God" to imply that the speech/logos was of the Father.
Then Who do you believe Whose speech/logos in the creation week, specially Gen 1:26, the "Let Us make man in Our image?"
You can chose which is two stated in the Bible, the "and the Word was God" or the "and Word was the God.?

AGAIN, JOHN is not saying 'God was the Word' there is NO DEFINITE ARTICLE BEFORE GOD which makes the noun 'god' nominative not vocative - qualitative NOT equal.

No, as "God" lacks the article and comes before the verb "was" it functions as predicate that describes the subject "the Word"
with definite article. It suggest the Word possesses the same nature as God.

Yes, all things came through the word.

Yes, the Bible state, "the Word was God." "Word" with definite article.

thrones, dominions, rulers and authorities --- were created through him and for him things in the heavens = invisible, things on earth = visible ---- things in relation to the church and the age to come ..... he is before all things and in him all things hold together, and he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.

The Word did not die.

That does not say that Jesus made the world.

The Son, yes, the Father testified.

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

Psalm 102:25 lifted from the OT which has been modified in relation to Christ. In the OT, the wording applicable to Yahweh is 'of old age' or 'of old' - here being applied to Christ, the wording is 'in the beginning'. The subject has changed from from Yahweh to Christ and when the subject changes usually the action applied to the subject changes SO ---- Is 'in the beginning' applicable to Genesis or is it applicable to the 'new creation'? the new heavens and the new earth? (Heb. 2:5 For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come of which we are speaking.)

Yes, I believe the speech/logos before became flesh was named YHWH, as what Jesus said.(John 5:37)
The Psa 102:25-27 is quoted in Heb 1:10-12 and credited to the Lord Jesus Christ who became flesh in the New Testament as Creator of heaven and earth. This confirms that the earlier verses of the psalm pictures the humiliation and suffering of Christ (Psa 102:1-11).

God created all things. It seems later manuscripts add "by Jesus Christ"......the simple reading 'who created all things' is supported by the early manuscripts. (cf. ASV, BBE, CEB, CJB, CSB, DBY, DRA, ERV, ESV, NAB, NET, NIV, NJB, NLT, NRSV, RSV, RV). 'By Jesus Christ' ---- found in the Textus Receptus and KJV, is missing from early, significant manuscripts. The phrase
"by Jesus Christ" (διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ), found in the Textus Receptus and KJV, is missing from early, significant manuscripts Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.

Textus Receptus of Erasmus heavy textual reliance to Byzantine text type, a later manuscripts compare to earlier Alexandrian text type manuscripts preferred by modern scholars as close to the original Bible languages.

May we know what verse you are referring to?

Again, earliest manuscripts read - "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created"......... supported by the Critical Text (NA28) and the Majority/Byzantine text.

It would probably be best if you researched the scriptures you use instead of just going through and picking out verses where create is linked to Jesus' name.

I prefer to quote/use Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" as it aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, with the assistance of Bible lexicons that define original Bible words what it means at the time it was used.

 

[Capbook]

Who is the 'whom'? God's Son - the heir of all things....... to make something THROUGH someone means the someone you are making something THROUGH is not the one doing the making.

If Peter made his house through the Engineer's builders.
Who do you think made the house? Peter or the Engineer's builders?

This echoes John 1:1 where God created through his Word ---- the word being the personified agent through which God created and that word became flesh, the only Son from the Father. It is the same poetic language John used that the author of Hebrews is using. Hebrews 1:3 --- Jesus is the exact representation of God his Father = John 1:1c 'the word was God' not equal but qualitative. Being a representation of God then he is not God.

You misinterpret the "and the Word was God" to "and the Word was the God." to make the speech/logos owned by the Father.
The "Word" part of speech as masculine noun, Bible used third person singular masculine pronoun "Him." He is a person, a personal being like the Father, as He was with Father, and was God.

The Gospel of John is topical as well as chronological, and not poetic as you say amazing grace.

John 1:1 R1In the beginningG746 was R2the WordG3056, and the WordG3056 was R3with GodG2316, and R4the WordG3056 was GodG2316.

G3056 (Thayer)
λόγος logos
1) of speech
1a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
1b) what someone has said
1b1) a word
1b2) the sayings of God
1b3) decree, mandate or order
1b4) of the moral precepts given by God
1b5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
1b6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
1c) discourse
1c1) the act of speaking, speech
1c2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
1c3) a kind or style of speaking
1c4) a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
1d) doctrine, teaching
1e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
1f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
1g) the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2) its use as respect to the MIND alone
2a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
Part of Speech: noun masculine

 

[amazing grace]

Duhh. No one that I know says that something became God. So you do not even refute Christian understanding of the Triune God. Then you reject Heb 1:2 showing the preexistence in creation of the One who came in the flesh as Jesus.

Jesus preexisted in the foreknowledge of God, in His mind and in His plans.

It is consistent where unitarians accept JOhn 17:3 but whitewash over John 17:5. The testimony of Thomas of the deity of Christ is skipped. The evidence of the the High Priest in Matt 26:62-65 that shows the deity of Christ is glossed over.

No one whitewashed over John 17:5.

yea, the glory that God had God promised him he would receive when he accomplished the work that God gave him to do. And the glory God has given him --- that same glory, Jesus has given us, although we have not yet received it ---- it is promised that we will share in that glory.

Of course, you disagree with Heb 1:2

You misunderstand what a person says just as you misunderstand scripture.

<snip>
Then Heb 1:2 lies <snip>

<snip>
I disagree. <snip>

I disagree that Heb. 1:2 lies. Of course, you knew what I meant you purposely try to distort what people say.

Diminishing God when we recognize the preexisting One being with God and being God yet becoming incarnate? That is the insult to God and his testimony through scriptures.

that you know it but deny it, that has made it worse.

We know exactly who our Lord and Christ is and we know who the One true God is - the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our Father and his Father, Our God and his God

Apparently I know it and just confessed it!

 

[amazing grace]

If you believe God created all things through the Word, the Word in Greek "logos" defined as "speech" and etc.

Yes, all things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made = by God's speech.

And as the Word was with God, and the Word was God, not stated as "and the Word was the God" to imply that the speech/logos was of the Father.

Yes, God's word was with him just as your word is with you.....your word is not with someone else.

Then Who do you believe Whose speech/logos in the creation week, specially Gen 1:26, the "Let Us make man in Our image?"
You can chose which is two stated in the Bible, the "and the Word was God" or the "and Word was the God.?

You just said that logos is defined as SPEECH - God spoke HIS WORD which was WITH HIM ----
AND THE WORD God's speech is qualitative of who God is ---- just as your speech, what you say reveals your qualities.

No, as "God" lacks the article and comes before the verb "was" it functions as predicate that describes the subject "the Word"
with definite article. It suggest the Word possesses the same nature as God.

Yes, the Bible state, "the Word was God." "Word" with definite article.

Yes, it functions as a predicate in the nominative case.
Yes, the definite article is used before 'word' not before 'God'.

The Word did not die.

Jesus died and was raised from the dead and if Jesus did not die, shed his blood then you are still in your sins.

The Son, yes, the Father testified.

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Yes, I believe the speech/logos before became flesh was named YHWH, as what Jesus said.(John 5:37)
The Psa 102:25-27 is quoted in Heb 1:10-12 and credited to the Lord Jesus Christ who became flesh in the New Testament as Creator of heaven and earth. This confirms that the earlier verses of the psalm pictures the humiliation and suffering of Christ (Psa 102:1-11).

<snip>
Psalm 102:25 lifted from the OT which has been modified in relation to Christ. In the OT, the wording applicable to Yahweh is 'of old age' or 'of old' - here being applied to Christ, the wording is 'in the beginning'. The subject has changed from from Yahweh to Christ and when the subject changes usually the action applied to the subject changes SO ---- Is 'in the beginning' applicable to Genesis or is it applicable to the 'new creation'? the new heavens and the new earth? (Heb. 2:5 For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come of which we are speaking.)

Textus Receptus of Erasmus heavy textual reliance to Byzantine text type, a later manuscripts compare to earlier Alexandrian text type manuscripts preferred by modern scholars as close to the original Bible languages.
May we know what verse you are referring to?

The one you previously quoted: Ephesians 3:9 at Post #101

<snip>
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
<snip>

I prefer to quote/use Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" as it aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, with the assistance of Bible lexicons that define original Bible words what it means at the time it was used.

Research in the arena of 'textual criticism' is an ongoing pursuit among many scholars --- there are new discoveries continually within theological circles.