The Trinity and all of its supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning

[Alter2Ego]

101G:

You are telling amazing grace "good luck because you will need it," when, in fact, amazing grace is correct and you are wrong when you claim "Jesus is God himself in the flesh."

You are attempting to turn Jesus Christ into the Creator by connecting John 1:1-3 (which applies to Jesus, the created son) to Isaiah 44:24 (which applies to Jehovah the Father).

First of all, you are quoting John 1:3 from a Trinitarian Bible translation where the translators are attempting to push the Trinity dogma. They purposely manipulated words by stating regarding Jesus: "all things were made by him...." That is an incorrect translation by the simple fact Jesus was himself created. A created being is not capable of creating.

Below are two Trinitarian Bibles where the translators at least had the decency to give a more accurate translation.

"God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him." (John 1:3 -- New Living Translation)

John 1 NLT

"All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being." (John 1:3 -- Berean Literal Bible)

John 1 BLB

There's a vast difference between "made by him" and "made through him." Jehovah is the power behind everything that was created. Isaiah 44:24 (which you erroneously apply to Jesus) confirms that. Almighty God simply allowed Jesus--his created son--the privilege of being the person through whom he, Jehovah, did the creating.

A2E listen carefully, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

A2E God was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF", when he made all things, and alone means, "having no one else present"
NOW YOUR Berean Standard Bible. " Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,

if God was alone, how could he go through someone else? ..... THINK.....

101G.

Isaiah 44:24 is Jehovah the Father speaking. What is it about that don't you get?

Most of the Trinitarian Bible translators removed the Divine name, Jehovah, from the 2,000 places where it originally appeared and replaced it with the title LORD in all caps or initial cap Lord or else the double-titles LORD GOD. Trinitarian Bible translators removed Almighty God's personal so they could confuse the gullible into believing Jesus is Almighty God. Whenever you see the words LORD or LORD GOD in all caps in the Bible, it always applies to Jehovah the Father.

In the oldest existing manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures aka Old Testament, God the Father's personal name was written with the four Hebrew letters YHWH, called the Tetragrammaton (sometimes pronounced Yahweh). Below is an image of the Tetragrammaton. It appeared some 2,000 times in the original manuscripts and was deliberately removed by Trinitarian Bible translators.


Below is the same verse of scripture from three different Trinitarian Bibles where the translators had the decency to leave the personal name of God the Father instead of replacing it with the title LORD.

"Thus said Jehovah, thy redeemer, And thy framer from the womb: 'I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth -- who is with Me? (Isaiah 44:24 -- Young's Literal Translation)

Isaiah 44 YLT

"Thus said YHWH, your Redeemer, "" And your Framer from the womb: “I [am] YHWH, doing all things, "" Stretching out the heavens by Myself, "" Spreading out the earth—who [is] with Me?" (Isaiah 44:24 -- Literal Standard Version)

Isaiah 44 Literal Standard Version

"Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone, (Isaiah 44:24 -- Legacy Standard Version)

Isaiah 44 Legacy Standard Bible

 

[Alter2Ego]

101G:

You are having a hard enough time understanding regular scriptures and you have the audacity to cite to the book of Revelation and compare it with scripture at Leviticus--which is literal. The book of Revelation announces in the first verse of the first chapter that it's full of symbolism.

Revelation 1:1​

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,"


The book of Leviticus contains literal historical information regarding the ancient Israelites. One cannot compare much of anything from a book of literal history to the book of Revelation which is mostly symbolic.

Greeting A2E,
all of revelation is not symbolic, unless stated. you mention, Revelation 1:1 ... is this not the Lord Jesus, only one person there in 1:1? yes or no. ... now is that 2 hard for U?

101G.

Thank you for the greeting, 101G.

I agree with you that the entire book of Revelation is not symbolic. I stated in my comment that it's full of symbolism but did not state that it's completely symbolic.

Look at the scripture at Revelation 1:1 again, quoted below. Pay careful attention to the words that I will bold and colorize this time around.

Revelation 1:1​

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,"

Notice that the verse says Jesus isn't even the originator of the revelation. It says God gave the revelation to Jesus Christ. Then Jesus, in turn, sent an angel to Jesus' slave John with the revelation. That alone tells the reader that Jesus is not in a trinity with God the father because God the Father had to give the revelation to Jesus.


Anyway, I have to head home from work now. We can continue this discussion next Monday when I return to the office as my home computer is broken.

 

[FreeInChrist]

That's the only scripture in the Bible that uses that terminology. The person uttering it is Jesus himself, and he was known for using symbolic speech when teaching.

No flesh involved.
At the end of these is a link to Soul in the Bible. 577 Occurances.

Psalm 23: 3

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

50 Bible verses about The Soul

A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topic

bible.knowing-jesus.com

Psalm 49:15

But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol,
For He will receive me. Selah.


Psalm 62:5

My soul, wait in silence for God only,
For my hope is from Him.

Psalm 107:9

For He has satisfied the thirsty soul,
And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.

1 Peter 1:9
obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

Psalm 19:7

The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 121:7

The Lord will protect you from all evil;
He will keep your soul.

Psalm 103:2

Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And forget none of His benefits;

Ezekiel 18:4

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

James 5:20

let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Psalm 103:1

A Psalm of David.
Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And all that is within me, bless His holy name.

Psalm 22:20

Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.

Psalm 116:7

Return to your rest, O my soul,
For the Lord has dealt bountifully with you.

Proverbs 16:24

Pleasant words are a honeycomb,
Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

Psalm 33:19

To deliver their soul from death
And to keep them alive in famine.

1 Corinthians 15:45

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Psalm 49:8

For the redemption of his soul is costly,
And he should cease trying forever—

Hebrews 6:19

This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,

Psalm 142:7

“Bring my soul out of prison,
So that I may give thanks to Your name;
The righteous will surround me,
For You will deal bountifully with me.”

Psalm 84:2

My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the Lord;
My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God.

Psalm 6:3

And my soul is greatly dismayed;
But You, O Lord—how long?

Proverbs 25:25

Like cold water to a weary soul,
So is good news from a distant land.

Proverbs 2:10

For wisdom will enter your heart
And knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;

Matthew 22:37

And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

Leviticus 17:11

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

Deuteronomy 13:3

you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

1 Peter 1:22

Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,

Proverbs 13:19

Desire realized is sweet to the soul,
But it is an abomination to fools to turn away from evil.

Proverbs 11:30

The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who is wise wins souls.

Hebrews 10:39

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Psalm 138:3

On the day I called, You answered me;
You made me bold with strength in my soul.

John 12:27

“Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour.

Jeremiah 31:14

“I will fill the soul of the priests with abundance,
And My people will be satisfied with My goodness,” declares the Lord.

Psalm 54:4

Behold, God is my helper;
The Lord is the sustainer of my soul.

Mark 8:36

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?

Psalm 26:9

Do not take my soul away along with sinners,
Nor my life with men of bloodshed,

Psalm 119:28

My soul weeps because of grief;
Strengthen me according to Your word.

Luke 12:19

And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.”’

AS PROMISED

Soul in the Bible (577 instances)

Genesis 1:21 - And God created the great sea monsters, and every living soul that moves with which the waters swarm, after their kind, and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.

bible.knowing-jesus.com

From "Knowing Jesus"

577 occurrences in 13 translations
'Soul' in the Bible

Not copying to here.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Soul

 

[101G]

Isaiah 44:24 is Jehovah the Father speaking. What is it about that don't you get?

Most of the Trinitarian Bible translators removed the Divine name, Jehovah, from the 2,000 places where it originally appeared and replaced it with the title LORD in all caps or initial cap Lord or else the double-titles LORD GOD. Trinitarian Bible translators removed Almighty God's personal so they could confuse the gullible into believing Jesus is Almighty God. Whenever you see the words LORD or LORD GOD in all caps in the Bible, it always applies to Jehovah the Father.

GINOLJC, to all.
what you don't get is this, Jehovah is not God Holy Name. your first mistake.

YHWH

is a VERB ...... (smile) .... lol, lol, lol, Oh my, please check it out
H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. SEE A2E, H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) is a VERB, NOT A NOUN
1. to exist.
2. to be or become.
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.
Compare: H1933

understand, verbs are not NOUNS. Nouns indicate personal names, verbs describe ACTION.


NOW that you asked about God's Holy Name and have an answer..... back to 101G's original question, "is the ONE PERSON in Isaiah 44:24 .. WHO WAS ALONE and BY HIMSELF, is the same ONE PERSON in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS?", YES or NO Please, see 101G said .... "PLEASE".

101G.
101G

 

[101G]

agree with you that the entire book of Revelation is not symbolic. I stated in my comment that it's full of symbolism but did not state that it's completely symbolic.

ok,

Look at the scripture at Revelation 1:1 again, quoted below. Pay careful attention to the words that I will bold and colorize this time around.

Revelation 1:1​

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,"

Notice that the verse says Jesus isn't even the originator of the revelation. It says God gave the revelation to Jesus Christ. Then Jesus, in turn, sent an angel to Jesus' slave John with the revelation. That alone tells the reader that Jesus is not in a trinity with God the father because God the Father had to give the revelation to Jesus.


Anyway, I have to head home from work now. We can continue this discussion next Monday when I return to the office as my home computer is broken.

OK, until then, sorry to hear that your computer is broke. hope you can get another computer for home soon.
but, and that's But with one "t" ... But, 101G must disagree with you on revelation 1:1. there is ONLY one person at Revelation 1:1, the Lord Jesus and here's why. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Notice ONE sent this revelation to John. now the question, "Who sent his angel to John? was it God or the Lord Jesus ..... according to you, if it's two persons at rev. 1:1". let's see if it's one or two persons at rev. 1:1 and who sent his angel.... follow. the angel who was sent told us who sent him, LISTEN CAREFULLY. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

who was it that sent his angel? "and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel " the Lord God of the holy prophets? meaning the God of the OT and NT.... correct. many of scholars have said, this is Jehovah, the God of the OT Prophets. well 101G disagree, and say it is God the Lord Jesus. so who is correct? let the bible answer the question.

and here is the bible answer. in the same chapter 22 here in revelation, just 10 verses after verse 6, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

BINGO, "I Jesus have sent mine angel ". see A2E, the Lord Jesus is the God of the holy prophets, both OT and NT.

101G.

 

[Affinity]

The Deity of Jesus. While the majority of biblical references bearing on the issue of Jesus’ deity are in the New Testament, the Old Testament is not devoid of relevant data. These are especially found in the prophetic portions of the Old Testament.

Although there was an anticipation of a great messiah and deliverer, this did not necessarily involve the idea of deity. In Isaiah 9:6, however, the prophet, referring to the one who was to come, wrote, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Here is an apparent identification of the coming messiah as “mighty God.”

The New Testament contains abundant indications of the deity of Jesus. Philippians 2:5–11 is a powerful passage. In verse 6, Paul says of Jesus that “being in very nature God, [he] did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.” The word translated “in very nature,” or “in the form of,” is the Greek morphē. It is the word that refers to the full set of characteristics which make something that which it is, as contrasted with the word schēma, which is the external appearance, or facade, which does not necessarily indicate the true nature of the thing.

The writer to the Hebrews also gives forceful expression to Jesus’ deity. Writing to Hebrew readers, he speaks of the superiority of Jesus to angels, and indicates that God has spoken through him, made him the heir of all things, and created the universe through him (Heb. 1:2). Then he says, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word” (v. 3). The Greek word translated “exact representation” is charaktēr, from which our word, “character,” is obviously derived. This is not merely similarity of being, but qualitative identity. Then in verse 8 the writer quotes God (from Ps. 45:6) as addressing the Son as “God” and in verse 10 as “Lord” (from Ps. 102:25).

Jesus’ own self-understanding is important. The grandiose statements he made indicate either some strange delusion or that he is actually God. He claimed that God’s angels (Luke 12:8–9; 15:10) were his angels (Matt. 13:41), and that God’s kingdom was his (Matt. 12:28; 19:14, 24; 21:31, 43). God’s elect were also his elect (Matt. 12:28; 19:14, 24; 21:31, 43). He also applied a number of Old Testament references to God to himself. The judgment scene of Matthew 25 reflects the theophanic language of Daniel 7:9–10, Joel 3:1–12, and Zechariah 14:5. In Matthew 21:16, Jesus applies Psalm 8:1–2 to himself, and in Luke 19:10 apparently alludes to Ezekiel 34:16, 22. Other references of this type are Luke 20:18a (Isa. 8:14–15); Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2, and Luke 7:27 (Mal. 3:1; 4:5–6); Mark 13:31 (Isa. 40:8).

There also are those passages in which he assumes the role of Yahweh. Among the most impressive of these are the predictions of the second coming and judgment. In Mark 9:12–13 (Matt. 17:11–12), Matthew 11:10 (Luke 7:27), and Matthew 11:14, there are references to Malachi 3:1 and 4:5–6, which predict the coming of Elijah as the forerunner of Yahweh. Jesus, however, identified John the Baptist, who had come as his forerunner, as Elijah. In Matthew 19:28 and 25:31–46, Jesus alludes to Daniel 7. In Daniel 7:9 the Ancient of Days sits on a throne. Jesus himself, however, takes the role of the Ancient of Days, sitting on his “glorious throne.” And in parables where Jesus identifies himself as the sower, the shepherd, and the bridegroom, he places himself in the role of God.

Furthermore, the actions that Jesus claimed to perform, either currently or in the future, identify more completely this divine self-image. He claimed the power to judge the world (Matt. 25:31) and to reign over it (Matt. 24:30; Mark 14:62). Most significantly, however, he claimed to forgive sins (Mark 2:8–10). This was interpreted by the scribes and Pharisees as blasphemy, because it was something only God has the right and power to do. In fact, Jesus forgave sins knowing full well the interpretation the Jews would place on his action. In Mark 2:7 they say, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Jesus responds by word and action, “ ‘But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins …’ He said to the paralytic, ‘I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home’ ” (vv. 10–11). Thus, he deliberately acted in a way that he knew they would interpret his actions as claiming equality with God.

Even the expressions that Jesus used indicate his deity. One of the most important of these was, “But I say to you.” This was introduced in connection with a quotation from the Old Testament Scriptures. In effect, he was saying, “Moses said that, but I say this to you.” He was implicitly claiming the right or authority to supplement what they had learned from Moses, the one they regarded as having been God’s special spokesperson. Note, however, the way Jesus reported these statements. He did not use the customary prophetic introduction, “The Word of the Lord came to me, saying …” Rather, he simply said, “I say to you.” He did not claim to be reporting the message God had revealed to him. He was claiming that his words were God’s words. Another expression that he used frequently was “Amen.” In these instances the word is usually translated, “Truly, truly,” or in the older versions, “Verily, verily.” This expression was customarily used by the congregation of Israel in response to the Word of God, as a way of indicating their agreement, or acknowledging that this was God’s message. For Jesus to use it in connection with his own words was a claim that his words were of equal status to those of the Old Testament messengers.


Making Sense of the Trinity, Millard J. Erickson