The suppression of reason, logic, common sense and morality in Calvinism

civic said:
MacArthur answers,

“The question you’re asking is why would God command all men everywhere to repent if they can’t unless he aids them. The answer to the question is, I don’t know why he chose to do it that way but that is the way it is.”[35]
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That's like saying I don't know why God tried to make a square peg fit into a round hole but that's the way it is. Or maybe God is saying I don't know why you just wouldn't accept that I don't do illogical things or things that clash with reasonable thinking.
 
civic said:
So, if and when a Calvinist becomes “hyper” or “anti-evangelistic” in his behavior, he does so by God’s decree.
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Yes seeing God would ordain all according to a Calvinist if a minister is overzealous in his passion to get all saved then even doing so would mean it was God's will for him to be so. Remember he ordains all things. So he would have the preacher going forth with an agenda and mandate but then pulls the rug out from under the one with passion and won't impart the irresistible grace Calvs believe one needs to make the preachers passion produce. So according to Calvs God winds somebody up like a toy and has it smash into a brick impenetrable wall. Does that come even close to loving your neighbor as yourself? Seeing it doesn't what can we say about Calvinism?
 
civic said:
Mac is confused and contradicts himself below:

R. C. Sproul, John MacArthur and Ligon Duncan and the Suppression of Reason​

During the “Tough Questions Christians Face: 2008 West Coast Conference” a woman asked John MacArthur the following question.

“Dr. MacArthur, you gave us two scriptures that popped out to me. The natural man cannot get to God in his unaided condition. And then in Acts, God now commands all men everywhere to repent. So, does that mean God would help everyone to repent since he commands it?[34]

MacArthur answers,

“The question you’re asking is why would God command all men everywhere to repent if they can’t unless he aids them. The answer to the question is, I don’t know why he chose to do it that way but that is the way it is.”[35]

The questioner follows up with,

“So not everybody can be saved then?”[36]

At which point MacArthur interjects, saying,

“Everyone is held culpable and guilty for not repenting. Everyone is culpable for his own sin. Guilty before God for his own sin. Like the second Thessalonians passage, God will deal out, when Christ returns, retribution to those who know not God and believe not the gospel. This is the great ultimate question that you come to in the doctrines of grace – is personal moral responsibility and the sovereignty of God. How do those two things come together. Clearly they are taught in Scripture. Clearly they are both taught in Scripture. What you want to avoid is some middle ground that assaults both of those things. But that’s for God to fully resolve in his own mind. All men are sinners. All men are culpable. All men are guilty. All men are commanded to repent. All men are in disobedience and in violation of that command, yet at the same time they’re unable to respond apart from the intervening sovereign grace of God. That is what the Bible teaches. The resolution of that is, I think, clear to the mind of God, but difficult for us to understand.”[37]

True to the title of the conference MacArthur was faced with a tough question here. But it is only tough for him because of his deterministic definition of God’s sovereignty.
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yep Calvinism involves one in mystery

Why does God determine for destruction those he states he loves?

How can God justly condemn someone for what he determined them to be or do?

When God restrains the evil of man is he restraining his own determination they should desire evil?

If God is determining all of man's thoughts, desires and deeds, why does he express anger at the response of man
 
civic said:
Yet God changes His mind in many places and was helpless to save those He reached out to and pleaded with them to come.
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God changed his mind several times in Genesis 18:23–33 when it came to Sodom and Gomorrah.

23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked?
24 Suppose there are in the city fifty righteous; will You destroy the place and not spare it for [the sake of ] the fifty righteous in it?
25 Far be it from You to do such a thing—to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as do the wicked! Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth execute judgment and do righteously?
26 And the Lord said, If I find in the city of Sodom fifty righteous (upright and in right standing with God), I will spare the whole place for their sake.
27 Abraham answered, Behold now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord.
28 If five of the fifty righteous should be lacking—will You destroy the whole city for lack of five? He said, If I find forty-five, I will not destroy it.
29 And [Abraham] spoke to Him yet again, and said, Suppose [only] forty shall be found there. And He said, I will not do it for forty’s sake.
30 Then [Abraham] said to Him, Oh, let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak [again]. Suppose [only] thirty shall be found there. And He answered, I will not do it if I find thirty there.
31 And [Abraham] said, Behold now, I have taken upon myself to speak [again] to the Lord. Suppose [only] twenty shall be found there. And [the Lord] replied, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake.
32 And he said, Oh, let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again only this once. Suppose ten [righteous people] shall be found there. And [the Lord] said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
33 And the Lord went His way when He had finished speaking with Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.
 
Presby02 said:
No, just your version of it.
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My very reason for brining up Pilate was for what RT stated when they said,

Maybe God doesn't know how to resolve the conflict between determinism and non-determinism in a way that humans can understand.

So Calvinists put people into a position where they're claiming we just can't know what truth is. (as Pilate did)
 
Rockson said:
My very reason for brining up Pilate was for what RT stated when they said,

Maybe God doesn't know how to resolve the conflict between determinism and non-determinism in a way that humans can understand.

So Calvinists put people into a position where they're claiming we just can't know what truth is. (as Pilate did)
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That wasn't my point. I'm not surprised you didn't get it.
 
Maurice said:
God changed his mind several times in Genesis 18:23–33 when it came to Sodom and Gomorrah.

23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked?
24 Suppose there are in the city fifty righteous; will You destroy the place and not spare it for [the sake of ] the fifty righteous in it?
25 Far be it from You to do such a thing—to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as do the wicked! Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth execute judgment and do righteously?
26 And the Lord said, If I find in the city of Sodom fifty righteous (upright and in right standing with God), I will spare the whole place for their sake.
27 Abraham answered, Behold now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord.
28 If five of the fifty righteous should be lacking—will You destroy the whole city for lack of five? He said, If I find forty-five, I will not destroy it.
29 And [Abraham] spoke to Him yet again, and said, Suppose [only] forty shall be found there. And He said, I will not do it for forty’s sake.
30 Then [Abraham] said to Him, Oh, let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak [again]. Suppose [only] thirty shall be found there. And He answered, I will not do it if I find thirty there.
31 And [Abraham] said, Behold now, I have taken upon myself to speak [again] to the Lord. Suppose [only] twenty shall be found there. And [the Lord] replied, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake.
32 And he said, Oh, let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again only this once. Suppose ten [righteous people] shall be found there. And [the Lord] said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
33 And the Lord went His way when He had finished speaking with Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.
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Exactly and in several other places too.
 
Rockson said:
Yes seeing God would ordain all according to a Calvinist if a minister is overzealous in his passion to get all saved then even doing so would mean it was God's will for him to be so. Remember he ordains all things. So he would have the preacher going forth with an agenda and mandate but then pulls the rug out from under the one with passion and won't impart the irresistible grace Calvs believe one needs to make the preachers passion produce. So according to Calvs God winds somebody up like a toy and has it smash into a brick impenetrable wall. Does that come even close to loving your neighbor as yourself? Seeing it doesn't what can we say about Calvinism?
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Nice word picture. :)
 

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