The Potter and the Clay

Its a matter of Gods Sovereignty that some will never be saved, and shall be confirmed in the worship of the beast, since their names were not written in the Lambs book of life Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When scripture declares someyhing shall happen, its a matter of Gods Sovereign decree and purpose that shall be done !
 
God gave us free will to choose His free gift of salvation or reject it. You see, for love to be real, it must not be coerced. If we did not have the ability to reject God, then neither would we have the ability to truly love Him. He didn't create us to be robots.

“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).
 
@Duane

“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).

This was directed to Gods chosen people, and they had no freewill choice to be Gods chosen people Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
 
@Duane



This was directed to Gods chosen people, and they had no freewill choice to be Gods chosen people Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
They had the choice to except their Messiah. But they falsely accused Jesus.
They picked Barabbas over Him. They paid a big price for it. The destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. And all the jews were kicked out of Israel.
 
They had the choice to except their Messiah. But they falsely accused Jesus.
They picked Barabbas over Him. They paid a big price for it. The destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. And all the jews were kicked out of Israel.
False, they were Gods chosen people im Deut 30
 
Salvation is by a choice of man's free will. The fact that Adam and Eve had a choice to make in the Garden of Eden shows beyond all doubt that mankind was created with a free will.
 
Salvation is by a choice of man's free will. The fact that Adam and Eve had a choice to make in the Garden of Eden shows beyond all doubt that mankind was created with a free will.
“If anyone wishes to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” Luke 9:23

This verse shows we have Free Will. It's appeal is to the will.

Wouldn’t even the clearest commandment of Christ be senseless, if we could expect nothing from the human will?
 
“If anyone wishes to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” Luke 9:23

This verse shows we have Free Will. It's appeal is to the will.

Wouldn’t even the clearest commandment of Christ be senseless, if we could expect nothing from the human will?
Right, Salvation is a choice that we make. It is not automatically given to us as a gift, and we do not have the forgiveness of our sins without believing in Jesus. If we choose salvation, God will reward us, but if we choose to continue in sin, He will hold us responsible for that choice.
 
Jeremiah 18 RSV- the reformed/calvinist translation :)
Just for the record, what makes the RSV a "reformed/calvinist" translation?

What is the RSV - GotQuestions?

Revised Standard Version – History
The Revised Standard Version (RSV) is an English translation of the Bible published in the mid-20th century. It traces its history to William Tyndale’s New Testament translation of 1525. The RSV is an authorized revision of the American Standard Version of 1901 and is one of four translations that have the ASV as its basis. In 1928, the copyright to the ASV was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education (ICRE), which formed a panel of 32 scholars and charged them with the task of revising the ASV. In 1950, the ICRE merged with the Federal Council of Churches to form the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA. The former ICRE became the new Council’s Division of Christian Education, and the NCC became the official sponsor of the RSV. In 1957, at the request of the Episcopal Church in the United States of America, the Deuterocanonical books were added to the RSV. Minor modifications to the RSV text were authorized in 1959 and completed for the 1962 printings.​
In 1965, the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition was published with a revised edition published by Ignatius Press in 2006. In 1971, the RSV Bible was re-released with the Second Edition of the Translation of the New Testament. In 1982, Reader’s Digest published a special edition of the RSV that was billed as a condensed edition of the text. In 1989, the National Council of Churches released a full-scale revision to the RSV called the New Revised Standard Version. It was the first major version to use gender-neutral language, and drew even more criticism from conservative Christians than did its 1952 predecessor. The RSV remains a favorite translation for many Christians. However, RSV Bibles are hard to find, except in second-hand shops and churches that used it, because the NCC prefers to print the New Revised Standard Version.​
Revised Standard Version – Translation Method
The RSV translation panel used the 17th edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek text for the New Testament and the traditional Hebrew Masoretic Text for the Old Testament. In the Book of Isaiah, they sometimes followed readings found in the newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls. The translation method utilized in the RSV is described as a combination of formal (word for word) and dynamic (thought for thought) equivalence. The translators of the RSV reverted to the use of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), used the archaic pronouns and verbs (thee, thy, hast, hath, etc.)—but only for God and not for humans—and followed the latest Greek text available, where earlier versions relied on the Textus Receptus.​
Revised Standard Version – Pros and Cons
Overall, the Revised Standard Version was a good English Bible translation in its time. The RSV, though, can no longer be said to be a modern English translation. While it is more "modern" than the KJV, it does not read as English is spoken today. The RSV is a good balance between formal equivalency and dynamic equivalency, more so than its successor, the NRSV.​
Revised Standard Version – Sample Verses
John 1:1, 14 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.”​
John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”​
John 8:58 – “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’”​
Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast.”​
Titus 2:13 – “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.”​
 
@TomL

One problem God did not create Pharoah to be a vessel of wrath from birth

Yes He did, thats the reason why pharoah was given being to exist, th God by him specifically would make His Power known [in his destruction] via the red sea Rom 9:17-19

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

The words raised thee up is the greek word exegeirō:
  1. to arouse, raise up (from sleep)
  2. to rouse up, stir up, incite

I have raised thee up into life, caused thee to exist, or I have raised thee to a public position, set thee up as king

John Gill writes:

even for this same purpose have I raised thee up; which may be understood in every sense that is put upon that phrase, unless that which some Jewish (m) writers have annexed to it, namely, that God raised Pharaoh from the dead; otherwise, I say, all the rest may well enough be thought to be comprised in it; as that God ordained and appointed him from eternity, by certain means to this end; that he made him to exist in time, or brought him into being; that he raised him to the throne, promoted him to that high honour and dignity; that he preserved him, and did not cut him off as yet; that he strengthened and hardened his heart, irritated, provoked, and stirred him up against his people Israel; and suffered him to go all the lengths he did, in his obstinacy and rebellion: all which was done,

that I might shew my power in thee; his superior power to him, his almighty power in destroying him and his host in the Red sea, when the Israelites were saved: and the ultimate end which God had in view in this was,

that my name might be declared throughout all the earth
 
@Obadiah



Absolutely False, you making all this up
Nope it's in the Bible.

The Jews Reject Jesus​

22The Festival of the Dedication of the Temple took place in Jerusalem during the winter. 23 Jesus was walking on Solomon’s porch in the temple courtyard.

24The Jews surrounded him. They asked him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25Jesus answered them, “I’ve told you, but you don’t believe me.

John 10:22-25

Accusation of Threatening the Temple: During His trial, false witnesses came forward to accuse Jesus of threatening to destroy the temple. Mark 14:57-58 records, "Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against Him: 'We heard Him say, "I will destroy this man-made temple, and in three days I will build another that is made without hands."'" This misrepresentation of Jesus' prophetic statement about His death and resurrection was used to incite fear and anger against Him.

5. Accusation Before Pilate: The religious leaders brought Jesus before Pontius Pilate, accusing Him of subverting the nation and claiming to be a king, thus challenging Roman authority. In Luke 23:2, they stated, "We found this man subverting our nation, forbidding payment of taxes to Caesar, and proclaiming Himself to be Christ, a king." Despite these charges, Pilate found no basis for a sentence of death, recognizing the innocence of Jesus.
 
Nope it's in the Bible.

The Jews Reject Jesus​

22The Festival of the Dedication of the Temple took place in Jerusalem during the winter. 23 Jesus was walking on Solomon’s porch in the temple courtyard.

24The Jews surrounded him. They asked him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25Jesus answered them, “I’ve told you, but you don’t believe me.

John 10:22-25​

Accusation of Threatening the Temple: During His trial, false witnesses came forward to accuse Jesus of threatening to destroy the temple. Mark 14:57-58 records, "Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against Him: 'We heard Him say, "I will destroy this man-made temple, and in three days I will build another that is made without hands."'" This misrepresentation of Jesus' prophetic statement about His death and resurrection was used to incite fear and anger against Him.

5. Accusation Before Pilate: The religious leaders brought Jesus before Pontius Pilate, accusing Him of subverting the nation and claiming to be a king, thus challenging Roman authority. In Luke 23:2, they stated, "We found this man subverting our nation, forbidding payment of taxes to Caesar, and proclaiming Himself to be Christ, a king." Despite these charges, Pilate found no basis for a sentence of death, recognizing the innocence of Jesus.
, you making all this up
 
Its a matter of Gods Sovereignty that some will never be saved, and shall be confirmed in the worship of the beast, since their names were not written in the Lambs book of life Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When scripture declares someyhing shall happen, its a matter of Gods Sovereign decree and purpose that shall be done !
you do not understand the potter and the clay from either testament.
 
you do not understand the potter and the clay from either testament.
There is a lot of that going around. :ROFLMAO:
  • Some people want the potter to hate His clay [setting aside the spiritual dimension for a moment, why would a human potter hate any lump of clay?]
  • Some people want the clay to control the hand of the potter [setting aside the spiritual dimension for a moment, when has the clay ever controlled the human potter?]
From where I sit, God is God and it is the POTTER [God] that is in charge. Romans 9 does say that God "prepared" some vessels for wrath to display the glory of His mercy on other vessels of "honor" ... so I take it as it stands without the need to read more or less into it. The POTTER is the POTTER and both vessels serve His purposes. Like Pharaoh and Moses ... both vessels existed to bring glory to God, but the story was always about what GOD did!

So, too, the saved and lost both exist to reveal the GLORY of God's Power and Justice and Love and Mercy.
 
Back
Top Bottom