The New Covenant was PRIOR to the Law and Old Covenant

brightfame52 said:
The Covenant is Gods Covenant, its the everlasting covenant, the Fathers were blessed to have been partakers of it, yet its spiritual. When God said to Abraham in Gen 17:1-9

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

This covenant is Spiritual to Abraham and His Spiritual seed which included gentiles Look at Vs 5
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No you are conflating the Covenant. Gods covenant with Abraham was the land of Israel which is physical and his descendants who were of physical decent.

Your replacement theology heresy won't fly here. :)
 
civic said:
No you are conflating the Covenant. Gods covenant with Abraham was the land of Israel which is physical and his descendants who were of physical decent.

Your replacement theology heresy won't fly here. :)
Click to expand...
It was a spiritual, heavenly land , the New World Heb 11:16,13


But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

They were pilgrims and strangers to this earth


These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
 
brightfame52 said:
It was a spiritual, heavenly land , the New World Heb 11:16,13


But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

They were pilgrims and strangers to this earth


These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Click to expand...
Equivocating. There are both literal promises and spiritual promises. You have created what is known as a false dilemma fallacy.
 
Truther said:
Abraham met the man Christ Jesus as Melchizedek.
Abraham rejoiced about it.

Jesus (Mary’s son) was on earth(time) and in heaven(timeless) simultaneously.

The Jews were shocked when he said that as most Christians are.

Adam was even made in the image of the son of man per Romans 5:14.
Click to expand...

Please read Isaiah 7:14 , ch53 and Gospel of John ch1
 
civic said:
Equivocating. There are both literal promises and spiritual promises. You have created what is known as a false dilemma fallacy.
Click to expand...
The Land was and is heavenly, and its the world Rom 4:13


For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
 
Truther said:
You just advocated for replacement theology. God dismissing his promise.
Click to expand...

God established 'replacement' via His Truth

It was prophesied in the OT and the LORD Jesus Christ directly stated it in the NT.

The Apostle Paul confirmed it as well.

Matthew 21:42-44
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Read Romans chapters 9 thru 11
 
@DavidTree

Matthew 21:42-44
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
Click to expand...

Sounds like a replacement of nations to me ! Thats the doing away of the Old National Covenant and the Establishment of the New Covenant, which is the Body of Christ established by His Blood Matt 26:28
 
Truther said:
No, they will ALL be saved.

You misrepresented this...

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Click to expand...

Now you're preaching a false Gospel. You preaching a form of election that is contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures.

All the faithful of Israel will be saved. There are many of Israel that will not be saved.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There has never been a Jew that wasn't one inwardly. Circumcision profits nothing without faith.

You are preaching a false gospel that does nothing but damn your fellowmen that claim Abraham.
 
civic said:
Equivocating. There are both literal promises and spiritual promises. You have created what is known as a false dilemma fallacy.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Even the physical promises are made to faithful people. Those among Israel that abandoned faithfulness to God were destroyed. Cast out. Driven away from their inheritance.

Future settlement into the land promised will also be for the faithful. There is no election for Israel similar to what is taught in Calvinism.
 
brightfame52 said:
@DavidTree



Sounds like a replacement of nations to me ! Thats the doing away of the Old National Covenant and the Establishment of the New Covenant, which is the Body of Christ established by His Blood Matt 26:28
Click to expand...

You are conflating. Though I agree that is overlap in some aspects of the Covenant, (faithfulness) there is a distinct relationship relative to God's purpose. Paul appeals to futures events centered around Jerusalem and those who possess the land.
 
DavP said:
I'll say it again, just in case some are hard of hearing...

The NEW Covenant was PRIOR to the giving of the law and the old covenant. How do those in Christ know this?

It's simple, by study of what Apostle Paul taught, and by looking at the Old Testament Book examples of the appearance of Lord Jesus to Abraham in his day. Come with me in Galatians 3 by Apostle Paul, and learn by line upon line coverage, which is the only way to really learn God's written Word...

Gal 3:1-5
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJV

Some among the Galatians had apparently been twisting the Truth of The Gospel regarding the difference between following The Spirit by Faith, vs. law keeping. Back in Galatians 1, Paul gave rebuke about the Judaizer Pharisee converts that had crept in, and were distorting The Gospel into "another gospel" which Paul and the Apostles did not preach. Thus Paul is continuing his lesson on that here to the Galatians (and to us, as Galatians is a foundational Book of Christian Doctrine.)

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Does the above just mean, that because Abraham believed God's Promise through Faith, that meant all nations would be blessed materially, or physically? God forbid, NO!

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was literally... preached first to Abraham. That... is what Paul is pointing to. Even towards the end of John 8, Lord Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see His day, and was glad. What day of Christ's was Lord Jesus pointing to, do you think? To the time of His death and resurrection of course, which is THE GOSPEL.

Abraham KNEW about The Gospel, but just didn't get to live to the time when Jesus would come to die on the cross and be resurrected by The Father. The Gospel of Jesus Christ coming to die on the cross is actually first hinted at in Gen.3:15 about Christ's heel being bruised upon His cross. King David would be given to prophesy about events of Christ's crucifixion about 1,000 years before it happened, even about the soldiers casting lots upon Jesus' clothing, per Psalms 22. The prophet Isaiah was given to write of Christ's crucifixion per Isaiah 53. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can be found pointed to in many Old Testament Books of God's Word. That's why it's important to study all of God's Word, and not just the New Testament Books.

Thus Apostle Paul is teaching us, THE GOSPEL BY FAITH was always FIRST, even 430 years prior to the giving of the law and old covenant!

Gal 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.'
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, 'The just shall live by faith.'
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:'
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

The 'blessing' of who? The "blessing of Abraham", which is what? It is the receiving of "the promise of the Spirit through faith"! Wait a minute. That blessing of Abraham from GOD was way... before God gave Israel the law and old covenant through Moses? Do you know what that means brethren?...

... It means, The NEW Covenant Jesus Christ, The Gospel, was always FIRST... before the law, and before the old covenant!

Why don't the Churches teach about the NEW Covenant always being first??

It's almost like many Christian Churches today have succumbed to ideas of the Judaizers who want us to understand The Bible like the evolutionists do with earth history, like earth history began with the cave man and slowly progressed to now. Just because the orthodox Jews can't understand this, doesn't mean those of us in Christ Jesus have to put up with their... version of Bible history. What Paul taught here in Galatians 3 has been written all along, and it is even pointed to in the Old Testament Books. Paul also covered this very subject in Romans 4 also.

Apostle Paul here in Galatians 3 is showing us that God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ, The Gospel, The New Covenant, was always His 'original' Plan from the beginning.

Gal 3:15-18
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
KJV

Sounds a bit like Paul is kind of talking in circles, but really he is not. He saying that God gave Abraham the "covenant" by promise not by the law, for the law was 430 years later. Thus the law which came later, cannot disannul the promise to make it of no effect.

Thus God's Promise by Faith, and His blessings of inheritance to Abraham, is BY PROMISE, and not by the law. This is important, because the Judaizer instead thinks this inheritance is by the law.

Gal 3:19-21
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
KJV

Why then did God 430 years later give the law? It was given "because of transgressions", until the seed would come to whom the Promise would be applied (i.e., Jesus Christ and those of FAITH!).

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

That... is pointing to God's original Salvation Plan ordained before the foundation of this world! (Ephesians 1:4) That is why we all... have been concluded under sin by the Scriptures, so that the Promise by Faith on Jesus Christ would be given to them that believe. With that Truth then, it means we can go even back further than Abraham with this idea of God's Promise of Salvation through His Son by FAITH! It's about the Promise by Faith on The Gospel Jesus Christ being ordained even before the foundation of this world!

Gal 3:23-29
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

That means, even as a Gentile believer on Jesus Christ, you are counted... as Abraham's seed, and will INHERIT WITH faithful Abraham per God's promises.
Click to expand...
Word games.
 
brightfame52 said:
The Covenant is Gods Covenant, its the everlasting covenant, the Fathers were blessed to have been partakers of it, yet its spiritual. When God said to Abraham in Gen 17:1-9

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

This covenant is Spiritual to Abraham and His Spiritual seed which included gentiles Look at Vs 5
Click to expand...
Not quite.

The covenant to Abraham is literal, not hypothetical.

God does not lie.

Check this out....


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know...


So, it is not for the church to know the times and seasons of when national Israel will be the epicenter of God's reign.

Not a "spiritual" thing, but literal.
 

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