The Lamb worshipped

[Runningman]

Sorry all creation including angels worship Christ

You are simply in denial

Which verse says all of creation worships Jesus? You don't need to paste the entire chapter. Just the relevant verses are fine. I'll either already know what they are or look them up to double check.

If Christ is not God then he is a blasphemer and those who worship him idolizers and he is not anyone savior

Kings can receive a bowing down to, which is worship, without them being deified or God in scripture. No one bowed to Jesus in heaven or earth with the intention he is God. You got the wrong idea.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus accepted worship that according to the Ten Commandments is reserved only for the Almighty (Matthew 14:33). “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, ‘All hail.’ And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him” (Matthew 28:9). Upon seeing the risen Savior, the converted skeptic, Thomas, confessed, “My LORD and my God!” (John 20:26–29).

Even the angels worship Jesus. “And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him” (Hebrews 1:6).

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/your-views-on-the-trinity.1805/post-126891

Jesus never received nor taught anyone to give him this kind of worship. This is the exclusive worship reserved only for God:

John 4 (NIV)
23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

 

[Fred]

Jesus never received nor taught anyone to give him this kind of worship. This is the exclusive worship reserved only for God:

John 4 (NIV)
23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The same Greek word for "worship" in John 4:23 is properly used in reference to the Lord Jesus in John 9:38.

 

[dwight92070]

Did anybody notice in the Revelation passages, chapters 4 and 5, that the Lamb DID NOT fall down and worship Him who sits on the throne, even though all of creation DID? That clearly tells us that the Lamb was NOT a created being - so if He was uncreated, and He did NOT fall down and worship Him who sits on the throne, then He MUST be God Himself.

 

[TomL]

Which verse says all of creation worships Jesus? You don't need to paste the entire chapter. Just the relevant verses are fine. I'll either already know what they are or look them up to double check.

Kings can receive a bowing down to, which is worship, without them being deified or God in scripture. No one bowed to Jesus in heaven or earth with the intention he is God. You got the wrong idea.

Read

Revelation 5:6–14 (LEB) — 6 And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. 8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one of whom had a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they were singing a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered, and bought people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10 and made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.” 11 And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and of the living creatures and of the elders, and their number was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands times thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” 13 And I heard every creature that is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea and everything in them saying, “To the one who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever.”
14 And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Equal worship is given to the lamb and he that is on the throne


Read
Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[Runningman]

Did anybody notice in the Revelation passages, chapters 4 and 5, that the Lamb DID NOT fall down and worship Him who sits on the throne, even though all of creation DID? That clearly tells us that the Lamb was NOT a created being - so if He was uncreated, and He did NOT fall down and worship Him who sits on the throne, then He MUST be God Himself.

According to Scripture, the Lamb is a man. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore Jesus is a man in heaven serving as high priest and intercessor between God and mankind.

John 1 (NIV)​

29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’​

​

1 Timothy 2 (NIV)​

5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,​

​

Hebrews 13 (NIV)​

8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.​

 

[Runningman]

Read

Revelation 5:6–14 (LEB) — 6 And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. 8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one of whom had a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they were singing a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered, and bought people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10 and made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.” 11 And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and of the living creatures and of the elders, and their number was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands times thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” 13 And I heard every creature that is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea and everything in them saying, “To the one who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever.”
14 And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Equal worship is given to the lamb and he that is on the throne


Read
Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Read it again. Notice they didn't worship the Lamb. Says they were standing around the throne, doesn't mention they moved anywhere else, then they fell down and worshipped. The one on the throne is not the Lamb therefore the Lamb is not God.

​

Revelation 5 (LEB)​

13 And I heard every creature that is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea and everything in them saying, “To the one who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever.”​

Same situation with the Lamb not being God in Revelation 7.

Revelation 7 (NIV)​

9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:​

​

“Salvation belongs to our God,​

who sits on the throne,​

and to the Lamb.”​

11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,​

 

[Runningman]

The same Greek word for "worship" in John 4:23 is properly used in reference to the Lord Jesus in John 9:38.

Different contexts. Jesus doesn't get any spirit and truth worship in Scripture because he isn't God.

 

[Fred]

Different contexts.

Which you have not demonstrated is in reference to a different meaning for the word used.

Jesus doesn't get any spirit and truth worship in Scripture because he isn't God.

See above.

You have to prove (which you didn't) that the same word takes on a different meaning.

 

[Runningman]

Which you have not demonstrated is in reference to a different meaning for the word used.




See above.

You have to prove (which you didn't) that the same word takes on a different meaning.

Different contexts. John 4 is about the true worshippers worshipping the Father in spirit and truth. Jesus doesn't get any of that nor is seeking it according to Scripture.

 

[Fred]

Different contexts.

Already addressed.

You should know that by continually repeating a false argument does not make it true.

 

[dwight92070]

According to Scripture, the Lamb is a man. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Therefore Jesus is a man in heaven serving as high priest and intercessor between God and mankind.

John 1 (NIV)​

29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’​

​

1 Timothy 2 (NIV)​

5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,​

​

Hebrews 13 (NIV)​

8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.​

If the Lamb was just a created man, then He too would have bowed down to Him who sits on the throne, but He didn't. Therefore the Lamb cannot be just a created man.

 

[Runningman]

Already addressed.

You should know that by continually repeating a false argument does not make it true.

You didn't address John 4. It's a teaching about how the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Same isn't said of Jesus in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

If the Lamb was just a created man, then He too would have bowed down to Him who sits on the throne, but He didn't. Therefore the Lamb cannot be just a created man.

The Lamb did bow down and worship Him who sits on the throne.

Matt 26 (KJV)
39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

[Fred]

You didn't address John 4.

Yes, I did in post 23 and 29.


You haven't addressed this from post 29:
"Which you have not demonstrated is in reference to a different meaning for the word used."

 

[TomL]

You didn't address John 4. It's a teaching about how the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Same isn't said of Jesus in the Bible.

John 5:23 (LEB) — 23 in order that all people will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, I did in post 23 and 29.


You haven't addressed this from post 29:
"Which you have not demonstrated is in reference to a different meaning for the word used."

John 4 is a teaching on worship and it's only about worshipping the Father. There are no teachings about worshipping Jesus in Scripture. What are you on about. You disagree with Jesus? I am simply going to keep repeating what he said ad nauseum. How many pages you want to go?

 

[Runningman]

John 5:23 (LEB) — 23 in order that all people will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Only the true worshippers worship the Father and the Father is God who is a Spirit. Do you even agree with Scripture? Yes or no.

John 4 (KJV)
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

 

[Fred]

John 4 is a teaching on worship and it's only about worshipping the Father.

Great.

John 9:38 teaches the worship of Jesus.

 

[TomL]

Only the true worshippers worship the Father and the Father is God who is a Spirit. Do you even agree with Scripture? Yes or no.

John 4 (KJV)
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

You do not agree with scripture

John 4:23 does not prohibit the worship of Christ and you fail to honor the father

because you fail to Honor Christ as you honor him

John 5:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.