civic
Active Member
I'm talking about the permanent indwelling of the H.S. which first occured at Pentecost.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
DavidTree
Active Member
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the SECOND Promise of the FATHER
FYI: No one can receive the Second Promise of the FATHER until they first receive the FIRST Promise.
What is the First Promise of the FATHER???
CLUE = you will find the First Promise declared in Genesis chapter 3
salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Rom 3:22–24 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
John 6:47Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:11–13And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Acts 10:43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
So your view is seen as QUITE DEFECTIVE.
DavidTree
Active Member
100% CORRECT
We do not sugar coat lies that oppose the CLEAR words of CHRIST = men/women/children were Born Again from the Word which they heard mixed with FAITH = beginning with Abel
Notice: "Faith must be joined with the Word of God in order for the NEW BIRTH to take place"
Every Living Saint since Abel were Born-Again/Above thru Faith in the Word of God
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes but its Christs responsibility to give it when He saves an elect person. Its not required from the one being saved. Christ gives it Acts 5:31
1Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Faith and repentance are given at the same time. Repentance is for the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25
, 25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth
So if you think Faith is required from the sinner, thats making the sinner part of the saving which belongs all to Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 8:8
DavidTree
Active Member
REQUIRED from man AFTER he hears the WORD = FAITH in the WORD
"Unless you believe IAM HE, you will die in your sins" = "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"
Free will of man to reject AFTER he has heard = this process can last the lifetime of an individual, until he/she departs
Thus we have 'death-bed conversions' = SEE the thief on the Cross next to JESUS
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brightfame52
Active Member
Everything needed for Salvation , for one to be saved, is Christs responsibility. Even Faith for the sinner to believe
civic
Active Member
Nope that’s been refuted by Jesus Himself.
Calvinism false assertion below that God gives faith. Jesus said it was THEIR faith that saved them.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
No it hasnt. Jesus is Saviour
brightfame52
Active Member
Right He gave her the Faith
DavidTree
Active Member
100% CORRECT
Yet, you are overstepping the free will of man that God created in man.
Pertaining to Salvation for mankind:
What is the One KEY Authority by which GOD operates in and where you and i and mankind cannot SEE???
You ignore much
salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Rom 3:22–24 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
John 6:47Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:11–13And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Acts 10:43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
So your view is seen as QUITE DEFECTIVE.
He saves those who believe
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Rom 10:13for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
1 Tim 1:15I t is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
Titus 3:5–7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
John 10:9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Alright,@FreeInChrist
You know me, that I have always used the word of God as my only and final authority~so, not sure what you are trying to say, nevertheless, I will take whatever you, or @civic, and whoever else you desire to stand with and prove that your work gospel is under the curse of God.
How about if I take what @civic posted above and dismantle it with the word of God, and if you desire to add to what he has posted, then do so, and I'll come back later today and will start and let us see who's has the truth that will indeed withstand any man's examination. But, over the years (we do go back several years....15, or so with you) you always stop once I start, and usually get mad at me, because you cannot answer or defend your own understanding.
Red, you’ve said this amounts to a “work gospel under a curse.” Actually you said a curse under God.
So let’s clarify something precisely.
Do you define faith itself as a meritorious work — something that earns salvation?
Because Scripture consistently contrasts faith and works.
If believing were itself a wage-earning act, Paul’s entire contrast collapses.
Faith receives. Works earn. Those are not the same category.
If you believe faith is meritorious, please show where Scripture defines believing as earning righteousness rather than receiving it.
brightfame52
Active Member
They cant believe until they saved because Rom 8:8 states the flesh cant please God
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Are you one of those who says get married first and love will come later? That was very OT too.
brightfame52
Active Member
Dont have time for foolish talk
You are still in error.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Rom 10:13for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
1 Tim 1:15I t is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
Titus 3:5–7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
John 10:9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified
brightfame52
Active Member
Its the truth, they which be in the flesh cant please God Rom 8:8 You do understand the unregenerate are in the flesh dont you ?
