The Hyper Calvinist
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
atpollard
Well-known member
Why do you get to add definitions to terms?
What in "TULIP" is synonymous with any of the other definitions of "Hypercalvinism"?
What is gained by creating a strawman that redefines "Calvinism" (often defined as synonymous with TULIP) with "Hyper-Calvinism"? You have no need of a prefix (Hyper-) if you are going to redefine Hyper-Calvinism = Calvinism = TULIP.
civic
Well-known member
It came from a Calvinist
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes, the all there are the elect out from amongst both the jews and the gentiles. Also the Mercy Paul is speaking of is Salvation Mercy, it saves them He had Mercy upon, He regenerates and saves them according to Mercy Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
God doesnt have mercy on all mankind without exception, what about the vessels of wrath in distinction to the vessels of Mercy he just wrote about in Chapter 9 Rom 9:20-24
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Do you really suppose that God all of the sudden changed His Mind and Purpose and just has mercy on all mankind, including the vessels of wrath ?
And Gods Mercy is confined to a remnant , an elect remnant Micah 7:18
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
Only in Calvinist theology.
atpollard
Well-known member
God has mercy on everyone without exception, That’s universalism, Patrick!
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Simple grammar tells us that the “on them all” refers directly back to those who were “bound to disobedience”. (And the reverse is equally true.)
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
ἐλεήσῃ is in the subjective mood, which shows potential for salvation, not a completed action. He did one thing so that he could then do another.
The important thing is there is no exclusive subset linked to the potential for mercy, it is for the whole segment that was “bound in disobedience!” Syntax is a killer…
Doug
atpollard
Well-known member
Perhaps (I can neither confirm nor refute your claims of the Greek), however, you asked a question …
… and the answer (based upon your denial of Universalism) is “Yes, there is an exclusion.”
(Which brings us back to to the 500 year old Arminian vs Calvinist debate over WHY all are not saved.)
Just for the record, you don’t need to work to convince any Classic Arminian or Calvinist that people disobey. The debate tends to be over WHO and WHY of obedience.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
You said:
to which I replied:
“ἐλεήσῃ is in the subjective mood, which shows potential for salvation, not a completed action. He did one thing so that he could then do another.” Which refutes your interpretation of it meaning “God has mercy on everyone without exception. That’s universalism…”
It is not universalism, meaning all men will be saved, but it is a universal potential (thus the Subjective mood) for all men being saved. It doesn’t mean all will be saved, it means God is willing to save all men if they believe and repent.
There is no exclusion in that verse all men, without exception, were “bound in disobedience” so that God may be able to have mercy on all of them (those bound in disobedience).
I haven’t made such an argument!Just for the record, you don’t need to work to convince any Classic Arminian or Calvinist that people disobey. The debate tends to be over WHO and WHY of obedience.
Doug
?????? Patrick
The mercy for all in that Christ's died for all
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
No universalism (Salvatory)
atpollard
Well-known member
Lutheran Satire - Bad analogies with St Patrick
[Not relevant to the discussion, but HILARIOUS ... and the source of the reference to "Patrick"]
which became a running gag ...
civic
Well-known member
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Why the focus on calvinism?
I was called a hyper calvinist for years. I never declared tulip is the gospel..
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
talk about a mess
1. You can't believe it unless God saves you first.
2. After your saved, You better get saved by having faith in God
enough to make you crazy
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
sadly, the fatalistic view of romans 9 is extremely flawed. and takes Paul out of context.
It has God condemning one baby before he is born and saving another before he is born.
ie, double fatalisitc theology.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
No it is not
God had mercy on Israel. Israel rejected God.. so God punished them (is still punishing them)
just because God has mercy on you does not mean you will be saved..
civic
Well-known member
I was a Calvinist for over 4 decades and on another Calvinist forum for 20 years. I came out of it a few years ago and that is how this forum came into existence. When I argued against Calvinism on another forum my voice was silenced, posts deleted , and banned often. The funny thing is I was nice to people as a non Calvinist than I was when I was a Calvinist. But I was never or seldom ever banned as a Calvinist.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
John 3: 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.You said:
to which I replied:
“ἐλεήσῃ is in the subjective mood, which shows potential for salvation, not a completed action. He did one thing so that he could then do another.” Which refutes your interpretation of it meaning “God has mercy on everyone without exception. That’s universalism…”
It is not universalism, meaning all men will be saved, but it is a universal potential (thus the Subjective mood) for all men being saved. It doesn’t mean all will be saved, it means God is willing to save all men if they believe and repent.
There is no exclusion in that verse all men, without exception, were “bound in disobedience” so that God may be able to have mercy on all of them (those bound in disobedience).
I haven’t made such an argument!
Doug
God sent him to the world
God sent him to show mercy to the world
God sent them so that they MIGHT (they have the ability) be saved.
Its not universalism, amen
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
I think I just left that chatroom (they lifted my ban, but have not responded since)
As I said in that chatroom, and was attacked for saying it. we need to get off isms.
When you get into these calvinist vs arminian debates there is nothing good that happens.
If I say I believe in eternal security. a key word. you believe in OSAS your calvinist (even though I am not)
When I say I believe in free will (A key word) I am arminain (even though I am not)
and in the end. there can be no discussion because to many assumptions that are not true.. and all they do is falsly accuse the others over and over, until the discussion gets out of hand..
sadly I have witnessed this far to much, I see it in here in another thread already..
Similar threads
