The fake REV "edition".

[praise_yeshua]

While the DSS are valuable, it's important to acknowledge that they are not infallible. Some fragments are incomplete, and the interpretation of certain texts can be complex.

The MT isn't infallible. You insist that it is with your false claims of inspiration.

Additionally, the presence of non-biblical texts among the scrolls indicates that not all material reflects mainstream Judaism or Christian thought.

Self serving nonsense. There is no main stream Judaism among unbelievers. Just various sects competing for the narrative. You have no evidence that confirms your preference in the MT.

NONE. Yet that is what you tried to do with the DSS. Just admit it. NOW... you know that is impossible. You didn't know this earlier. I knew decades ago.

Well, considering you are an "unknown factor," I am under no obligation to retract anything I’ve said regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls. For all I know, you could be a bot.

Additionally, you seem to dismiss the Masoretic Text without hesitation.

J.

No "BOT" would tell you what I've told you.

I dismiss what you believe about the MT. The MT contains good and bad things. You believe it is inspired by God.

One of the worst things that has ever happened to Christianity is the blind acceptance of the MT as the sole authority for the OT. It was the first attempt made to "normalize" the Scriptures by producing an edited edition of the OT that abandoned all alternate readings.

 

[Johann]

The MT isn't infallible. You insist that it is with your false claims of inspiration.

Hey bot-stop tagging me-and don't tell me what, and what not to read.

Self serving nonsense. There is no main stream Judaism among unbelievers. Just various sects competing for the narrative. You have no evidence that confirms your preference in the MT.

NONE. Yet that is what you tried to do with the DSS. Just admit it. NOW... you know that is impossible. You didn't know this earlier. I knew decades ago.

This is not even worth a reply.

No "BOT" would tell you what I've told you.

I dismiss what you believe about the MT. The MT contains good and bad things. You believe it is inspired by God.

One of the worst things that has ever happened to Christianity is the blind acceptance of the MT as the sole authority for the OT. It was the first attempt made to "normalize" the Scriptures by producing an edited edition of the OT that abandoned all alternate readings.

You can dismiss whatever you want, but I’ll continue to read the MT. You’ve spent the whole day on non-biblical issues, and whatever you find to be a "stench," I’ll gladly accept-the Scriptures.

I’ve just lost all respect for you.

Cheers.

J.

 

[Johann]

So you actually believe the MT is inspired. No duh.... Thanks for admit it.



Sure can. Did Abraham come out of Egypt? Do you seriously realize what you're writing.

My goal is to show just how wrong you are. You have fundamental problems with reasoning and understanding. If you recognize this, you will change. You don't believe you need to change.




Already have. You're referencing works of men. I'm referencing manuscripts. What exactly is important here? You preferred sources or the manuscripts themselves?

A right relationship with Christ Jesus, sealed with the Spirit and you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hey bot-stop tagging me-and don't tell me what, and what not to read.

This is not even worth a reply.

You can dismiss whatever you want, but I’ll continue to read the MT. You’ve spent the whole day on non-biblical issues, and whatever you find to be a "stench," I’ll gladly accept-the Scriptures.

I’ve just lost all respect for you.

Cheers.

J.

Being wrong makes people very angry. You're there right now. It is an opportunity to change. To be different. You need to change. Be accepting of change.

Calling me a "bot" is deflecting.

Read the MT. Go for it. Don't try to defend it. You don't really understand how.

 

[praise_yeshua]

A right relationship with Christ Jesus, sealed with the Spirit and you?

Claiming you have a right relationship and you're "sealed with Spirit" contrary to my own personal position is not an argument. It is not anything more than a claim that only God can validate. Why even mention it?

Do you want me to make the same claim? There is no advantage to be found in such arguments. I stopped insisting I'm "Spiritually Superior" to my debate opponent a long time ago.

All I can do is go by what you write/say.

 

[Johann]

Claiming you have a right relationship and you're "sealed with Spirit" contrary to my own personal position is not an argument. It is not anything more than a claim that only God can validate. Why even mention it?

Why NOT mention it?

Do you want me to make the same claim? There is no advantage to be found in such arguments. I stopped insisting I "Spiritually Superior" to my debate opponent a long time ago.

All I can do is go by what you write/say.

What argument?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why NOT mention it?


What argument?

J.

Claiming you're Spiritually Superior. Do you believe you're Spiritually Superior to me? That is the argument you're making.

 

[Johann]

Claiming you have a right relationship and you're "sealed with Spirit" contrary to my own personal position is not an argument. It is not anything more than a claim that only God can validate. Why even mention it?

Why NOT mention it?

Do you want me to make the same claim? There is no advantage to be found in such arguments. I stopped insisting I "Spiritually Superior" to my debate opponent a long time ago.

All I can do is go by what you write/say.

What argument?

J.

Claiming you're Spiritually Superior. Do you believe you're Spiritually Superior to me? That is the argument you're making.

Are you bored or something?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you bored or something?

Geesh.......

 

[Johann]

Geesh.......

Again, are you bored?

We can play chess anytime you want.

J.

 

[Peterlag]

So you have no understanding of Greek.
You just brush aside the Greek language like it's useless.
You humbly elevate yourself as the spiritual "expert" here.
You place yourself above the Apostles.
You're willing to change the very words of Apostle John to an "it".
You degrade the Uncreated Word of God to an "it".
Shoukd I keep going?

The spirit is an it. It does not have gender. It's a thing. A living thing. The Apostle John did not call it a Him. The translators did. There are Bibles who translate it differently and they are not saying they know more about the Scriptures than the Apostle John. They are saying the translators made it a Him.

 

[synergy]

The spirit is an it. It does not have gender. It's a thing. A living thing. The Apostle John did not call it a Him. The translators did. There are Bibles who translate it differently and they are not saying they know more about the Scriptures than the Apostle John. They are saying the translators made it a Him.

Again, The proper translation of ουτος and αυτου in John 1:2-3 are "He" and "Him", not "It". The Uncreated Word of God is not a thing, He is a He. Do you understand?

If you refuse that truth then the following is true about you:

You have no understanding of Greek.
You just brush aside the Greek language like it's useless.
You humbly boast that you are the spiritual "expert" here.
You place yourself above the Apostles.
You're willing to change the very words of Apostle John to an "it".
You degrade the Uncreated Word of God to an "it".
Should I give on?

 

[Keiw1]

The so called Revised English Edition is a fake translation.

It is largely the work of one person named John Schoenheit of so called Spirit and Truth Fellowship "https://spiritandtruthonline.org/"

Which is a former "Church of God" denomination disciple that believes he is called to bring people "back" to the teachings of the apostles.

Which is a rather weird history. Notice how they claim the translation is a "ongoing" work. I quote "John".... (bold mine)

You can view our on-going translation work, the REV and Commentary, online at http://www.stfonline.org/rev

Notice the "about page".... for the translation.....

About, REV Bible and Commentary

REV Commentary - About

www.revisedenglishversion.com

I quote....(bold mine)

"Translation Team
Over the years, numerous individuals have contributed to the work in various capacities based on their knowledge and skills. The core translation team consists of individuals who work together to produce an accurate, readable, and robust translation. Those serving on the translation team have training in the original languages and have extensive experience in biblical studies and theology."

Lets start with.....

WHAT TEAM? You can't list a team because it is largely the work of a single person from a cult member that has abandoned the "Church of God" denomination to attempt to convert "Christians" to Unitarianism.

@civic @synergy @Johann @Peterlag

All trinity translations are altered and erred by satan's will to mislead. All translated from Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) translating.
the top 4 or 5 trinity teachings they all agree on are false teachings. The blind outright refuse to believe Jesus over those religions. They contradict Jesus to the core, they teach little of what Jesus actually teaches. One cannot obey what they do not know, thus are not Jesus' friends nor remain in his love unless they obey all he teaches-John 15:10-14--God warned all of you--GET OUT OF HER.

 

[Peterlag]

All trinity translations are altered and erred by satan's will to mislead. All translated from Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) translating.
the top 4 or 5 trinity teachings they all agree on are false teachings. The blind outright refuse to believe Jesus over those religions. They contradict Jesus to the core, they teach little of what Jesus actually teaches. One cannot obey what they do not know, thus are not Jesus' friends nor remain in his love unless they obey all he teaches-John 15:10-14--God warned all of you--GET OUT OF HER.

I'm only interested in how this group teaches the trinity and do not read their Bible or am I a member of their church. I have not listed the group when I quote their work that bothers @praise_yeshua so much because I know if I did you folks would stop looking at the data I post about the trinity and start looking at all the dirt you can find on them. And that is what you are doing. I leave John's name off the data I post because I know you are going to dig up all kinds of stuff on him that I don't follow.

 

[synergy]

I'm only interested in how this group teaches the trinity and do not read their Bible or am I a member of their church. I have not listed the group when I quote their work that bothers @praise_yeshua so much because I know if I did you folks would stop looking at the data I post about the trinity and start looking at all the dirt you can find on them. And that is what you are doing. I leave John's name off the data I post because I know you are going to dig up all kinds of stuff on him that I don't follow.

Here is one example of how you trash the Greek NT.

The proper translation of ουτος and αυτου in John 1:2-3 are "He" and "Him", not "It". The Uncreated Word of God is not a thing, He is a He. Do you understand?​

Therefore, the following is true about you:

1. You have no understanding of Greek.
2. You just brush aside the Greek language like it's trash.
3. You humbly boast that you are the spiritual "expert" here.
4. You place yourself above the Apostles.
5. You're willing to change the very words of Apostle John to an "it".
6. You degrade the Uncreated Word of God to an "it".
7. Should I go on?

 

[Johann]

Here is one example of how you trash the Greek NT.

The proper translation of ουτος and αυτου in John 1:2-3 are "He" and "Him", not "It". The Uncreated Word of God is not a thing, He is a He. Do you understand?​

Therefore, the following is true about you:

1. You have no understanding of Greek.
2. You just brush aside the Greek language like it's trash.
3. You humbly boast that you are the spiritual "expert" here.
4. You place yourself above the Apostles.
5. You're willing to change the very words of Apostle John to an "it".
6. You degrade the Uncreated Word of God to an "it".
7. Should I go on?

Correct.

οὗτος - This is a demonstrative pronoun that means "this" or "that" in English, often specifying a person, place, or thing. It’s a masculine form (nominative singular) used for emphasis or to call attention to something specific. While it could sometimes imply a non-personal referent (like "this thing"), its default function is not like a neutral "it." In Greek, demonstratives carry a sense of presence or emphasis, identifying a particular noun that’s often already known or recently mentioned in discourse.

αὐτοῦ - This form is the genitive singular of αὐτός, which can mean "him" (possessive), "his," "her," or "its" when used with neuter nouns. While αὐτός itself is a third-person pronoun for emphasis or reflexive possession, it is generally not used by itself to mean "it." Instead, it often reinforces possession or attributes something to someone or something (e.g., "of him," "of it").


Neither οὗτος nor αὐτοῦ operates as an "it" in a standalone or neutral way. Greek usually relies on contextual gender and form to convey similar functions, and both οὗτος and αὐτοῦ carry specific masculine or gendered implications that would not fit the impersonal "it" of English. For a true neuter "it," Greek often uses τὸ or contextual forms based on the subject’s grammatical gender.

J.

 

[synergy]

Correct.

οὗτος - This is a demonstrative pronoun that means "this" or "that" in English, often specifying a person, place, or thing. It’s a masculine form (nominative singular) used for emphasis or to call attention to something specific. While it could sometimes imply a non-personal referent (like "this thing"), its default function is not like a neutral "it." In Greek, demonstratives carry a sense of presence or emphasis, identifying a particular noun that’s often already known or recently mentioned in discourse.

αὐτοῦ - This form is the genitive singular of αὐτός, which can mean "him" (possessive), "his," "her," or "its" when used with neuter nouns. While αὐτός itself is a third-person pronoun for emphasis or reflexive possession, it is generally not used by itself to mean "it." Instead, it often reinforces possession or attributes something to someone or something (e.g., "of him," "of it").


Neither οὗτος nor αὐτοῦ operates as an "it" in a standalone or neutral way. Greek usually relies on contextual gender and form to convey similar functions, and both οὗτος and αὐτοῦ carry specific masculine or gendered implications that would not fit the impersonal "it" of English. For a true neuter "it," Greek often uses τὸ or contextual forms based on the subject’s grammatical gender.

J.

αὐτο translates to "it" and is nowhere found in John 1:2-3. Heretics like judaizing unitarians have a propensity to butcher the word of God.

 

[Johann]

αὐτο translates to "it" and is nowhere found in John 1:2-3. Heretics like judaizing unitarians have a propensity to butcher the word of God.

Anything and everything that denies the deity of our Lord Christ Jesus, brother.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm only interested in how this group teaches the trinity and do not read their Bible or am I a member of their church. I have not listed the group when I quote their work that bothers @praise_yeshua so much because I know if I did you folks would stop looking at the data I post about the trinity and start looking at all the dirt you can find on them. And that is what you are doing. I leave John's name off the data I post because I know you are going to dig up all kinds of stuff on him that I don't follow.

You follow his translation. This is why I started this thread about his translation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

All trinity translations are altered and erred by satan's will to mislead. All translated from Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) translating.
the top 4 or 5 trinity teachings they all agree on are false teachings. The blind outright refuse to believe Jesus over those religions. They contradict Jesus to the core, they teach little of what Jesus actually teaches. One cannot obey what they do not know, thus are not Jesus' friends nor remain in his love unless they obey all he teaches-John 15:10-14--God warned all of you--GET OUT OF HER.

Catholic simply means "Universal". It was simply a "conceptional" teaching that preexisted the Roman Catholic church by centuries. Don't confuse the concept with the distinctness of Roman Catholicism.