The faith of Jesus Christ versus the faith of man

[jeremiah1five]

False, Gentiles are included in the New Covenant, that is why Paul was made a Apostle, A new Covenant minister unto the Gentiles 2 Corinthians 3:5-6

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The New Covenant is prophesied by Jeremiah in his "book" chapter 31 verses 31 through 34.
There are NO GENTILES in this prophesy of a New Covenant in Christ's blood.
Jesus died in accordance to the Law of Moses. He died in the place of the animal sacrifice which under the Law was slain and sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel, even if for only one year until they can do it again next year.
But saying Gentiles are included in the Hebrew Covenants - especially the Mosaic Covenant that commands worship and sacrifice to God you teach Jesus changed the Law which in effect is really destroying the Law making His words in Matthew 5:17 a LIE.
Let's not confuse your position with Scripture that has no bearing on the subject.
Just as the animal sacrificed every year at Israel's holiest day to atone the sins of the sins of the children of Israel, so, too did Jesus die under the Law and according to the Law to atone the sins of the children of Israel.
So, stop making Jesus out to be a liar and one who changed the Law which means He destroyed the Law.
Your theology is completely wrong. By saying Jesus added Gentiles to Israel's salvation covenant you are teaching Jesus changed the Law thereby destroying the Law, something He said in Matthew 5:17 He did not come to do.
He came to fulfill.
God instructed the Jews to slay an animal whose blood was then used to "cover" israel's sins for one year until they get to do it again next year in perpetutity. But Jesus stopped all that. He died once and for all Jews which is why Saul says in Romans 11, "And ALL Israel SHALL be saved."
The animal that was sacrificed under the Law was killed as instructed by God and whose blood was sprinkled on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant to atone for the sins of the children of Israel ONLY. Gentiles were never under the Law and never under the blood - even if it was only the blood of bulls and goats.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Face it @jeremiah1five - you display much of the same bad theology that Paul faced from the Judaizers.

I post the whole counsel of God. I don't add Gentiles to any of the Hebrew covenants - as you and others do and like to include Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant jumping over the more important Mosaic Covenant to get to Abraham's Covenant. Totally inconsistent and violates the Word of God.

In Scripture where the covenants between God and Abraham, between God and the children of Israel, between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah are recorded and described you add Gentiles to Israel's covenants with God thus violating and mutilating God's Holy Word. You cast God's Pearls to swine; you give that which is Holy - God's love - to dogs (Gentiles.) You can do it but one day the bill will come due and you will have to answer to God for the molestation of His Word, of changing His Word, of destroying His Word.
You fall for the false theology that Judaism is evil, but Jesus' teachings more closely coincides with Pharisaic teaching that Sadduccee teaching. Saul continued in Judaism, in obeying the Law of Moses as a Christian because He knew that Christianity was only completed Judaism.
Jesus was a rabbi. He wasn't part of the Essenes and He wasn't part of the Sadduccees. He was Pharisaic. He taught what the Pharisees believed and they believed in etrnal life, in angels, in the resurrection, and in the final battle and judgment of Israel's enemies.

Jesus died under the Law to saved those who were under the Law and Saul says this very thing:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:4–5.

Saul's Judaism found its fullest expression when he became a Christian. From his own hand he writes:

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.

He said he believed ALL THINGS which are written in the LAW and the PROPHETS!

Imagine that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't believe anything that you have written above. I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

You teach God casts His Pearls to swine. The pearl represents the Word of God in Scripture. And you teach God gave His Pearl, His Word to swine (unatoned, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles.

The Law was written by Moses to and for the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle.

The Prophets were written by the very prophets God sent to Israel and the prophesied against Israel what God wanted Israel to know about their unfaithfulness for wherever there was a prophet, God's judgment was not far behind.

The Psalms were written by various Hebrew men and is a collection of songs the children of Israel would use in worship of the One True God.

You have fallen for the deception that you think God's holy Word is given to an unholy people: Gentiles.

Your Gentile theology falls short of the truth of the Word of God given to Israel - NOT GENTILES.

The letters of the New Covenant were written by Jewish Christians and addressed to fellow Jews and Jewish Christians in the various cities and towns where Jewish Christians would gather in the homes of Jewish people. Even Peter's sermon in Acts 2 was addressed to the twelve tribes living in and around Israel. You take everything from the Hebrew people including their Messiah and make it all fit a Gentile form of religion that God never sanctioned nor established. Even the Gift Ministries in Ephesians 4 was given by God TO THE JEWISH CHURCH.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, hprophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:11–12.

The apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor and teacher were given from God to the Jewish Church. And God tells us to whome they are given:

1. For the perfecting of the Church - NOT for the perfecting of the world.

2. For the work of the ministry - NOT for the work of Gentiles.

3. For the edifying of the body of Christ - NOT for the edifying of the world!

Get a clue.

 

[Peterlag]

You teach God casts His Pearls to swine. The pearl represents the Word of God in Scripture. And you teach God gave His Pearl, His Word to swine (unatoned, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles.

The Law was written by Moses to and for the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle.

The Prophets were written by the very prophets God sent to Israel and the prophesied against Israel what God wanted Israel to know about their unfaithfulness for wherever there was a prophet, God's judgment was not far behind.

The Psalms were written by various Hebrew men and is a collection of songs the children of Israel would use in worship of the One True God.

You have fallen for the deception that you think God's holy Word is given to an unholy people: Gentiles.

Your Gentile theology falls short of the truth of the Word of God given to Israel - NOT GENTILES.

The letters of the New Covenant were written by Jewish Christians and addressed to fellow Jews and Jewish Christians in the various cities and towns where Jewish Christians would gather in the homes of Jewish people. Even Peter's sermon in Acts 2 was addressed to the twelve tribes living in and around Israel. You take everything from the Hebrew people including their Messiah and make it all fit a Gentile form of religion that God never sanctioned nor established. Even the Gift Ministries in Ephesians 4 was given by God TO THE JEWISH CHURCH.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, hprophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:11–12.

The apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor and teacher were given from God to the Jewish Church. And God tells us to whome they are given:

1. For the perfecting of the Church - NOT for the perfecting of the world.

2. For the work of the ministry - NOT for the work of Gentiles.

3. For the edifying of the body of Christ - NOT for the edifying of the world!

Get a clue.

Holy Smokes... I don't believe anything that you believe.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Paul had more light than Jeremiah, the Gentile inclusion in the Covenant was a Mystery even to the Prophets

IF you believe that Saul had more light than Jeremiah, then you would be wrong. It has nothing to do with "more" Holy Spirit like we are a car and our gas tank is "Full" or "Quarter-full." But that is the false thinking and teaching many have when it says, "and they were FULL of the Holy Ghost" like there is such a thing as being "half-full" or two-thirds full. According to Saul a person either has the Holy Spirit or they don't. There are no degrees to God's Presence in our lives. How stupid is that?

Fact #1. Jeremiah prophesied a New Covenant God would make with the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.)

Fact #2. Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant between God and the children of Israel reveals God forgiving Israel of all her sins. It says, "I [God] will forgive them [Israel] their sins and remember their sins NO MORE!"

Fact #3. Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant that contains God forgiving Israel "all her/their sins and remember their sins no more" relies on the Ceremonial Law of the Law of Moses upon which this forgiveness is accomplished and completed in the sacrifice of Jesus as substitute in our place who took the penalty of sin - which is death - and who died under the Law of Moses and whose blood, like the blood of animals slain, was sprinkled on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant and which God's anger was propitiated and placed upon Jesus without dilution who died - like the animal - to and for the children of Israel ONLY.

Fact #4. At Jesus' last Passover, He was in attendance with the twelve disciples and who represented the twelve tribes of Israel, partook of the meal as instructed and commanded by the Law of Moses, went to the Garden to pray, was arrested, had a midnight trial, and was condemned to death as the high priest prophesied, "that one man die for the nation [of Israel]" and who resurrected to newness of life to and for the children of Israel - NOT Gentiles.

Fact #5. Jesus died to atone the sins of Israel finally and eternally.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

This is the good news gospel of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Holy Smokes... I don't believe anything that you believe.

That's because you are infected with a false Constantinian Gentile theology that is possible is the "strong delusion" God said He would send upon the earth.

 

[Jim]

He is the author and finisher of our faith, He is connected to the people of faith in Heb 11, His life of faith excelled theirs

My question for you @brightfame52 is what did Jesus not experientially know about God that he needed to believe in God? I will answer that for you. Nothing. The Word was with God. The Word personally was with God. The Word became Jesus.

 

[Jim]

Yet Jesus was faithful Heb 3:2

Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

The modern English word faithful does not mean having faith. It means loyal, steadfast, true, staunch.

 

[Jim]

That's because you are infected with a false Constantinian Gentile theology that is possible is the "strong delusion" God said He would send upon the earth.

And you are infected with a false Jewish theology that Jesus came to correct.

John 1:9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.

 

[Jim]

The New Testament speaks of Jesus having faith or trust in God in three specific ways: through a direct quote attributed to Him, through the specific wording of the "faith of Christ" passages (preserved clearly in the KJV), and through the testimony of those who watched Him die.

There is neither the words OF nor IN appears in any of the verses you wish to cite. The phrase is διὰ πίστεως ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ and is in the Greek dative case. You can read about the Greek dative case in the following:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/resources/grammars/greek/simplified-greek/dative-case.cfm

So the choice is OF or IN is strictly by the interpreter's prior theological position. The words OF or IN does not establish the theological position, rather the theological position establishes the choice of the words OF or IN.

 

[Jim]

I post the whole counsel of God. I don't add Gentiles to any of the Hebrew covenants - as you and others do and like to include Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant jumping over the more important Mosaic Covenant to get to Abraham's Covenant. Totally inconsistent and violates the Word of God.

You post the Judaizers' false theology.

 

[FreeInChrist]

He is the author and finisher of our faith, He is connected to the people of faith in Heb 11, His life of faith excelled theirs

But he is not God?????????

 

[civic]

@brightfame52

Only by nature we all were, yet still loved by God through Christ and God's election of grace from before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 2:3​

“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”

God loves the whole world, everyone.

 

[civic]

He is the author and finisher of our faith, He is connected to the people of faith in Heb 11, His life of faith excelled theirs

If Jesus had faith, lived by faith then He would of been included under the hall of faith in Hebrews 11. But as we all know His faith is not once mentioned.

All you have is the fallacy known as an argument from silence.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

You interpret "families of the earth" as Gentiles and anyone that is not Hebrew/Jewish. Stay consistent. This would include the man of sin as being blessed with faithful Abraham whose blessings is given by God to everyone who is not Hebrew - including the man of sin.
Your own interporetation destroys itself under the weight of truth against it.

For the record the "families of the earth" are Abraham's descendants through Ishmael, Esau, and others who are Abraham's seed by not heirs of the promises of God.

Only the elect in Christ are the heirs Abraham seed Gal 3:29

 

[brightfame52]

The New Covenant is prophesied by Jeremiah in his "book" chapter 31 verses 31 through 34.

Jeremiah did not have the understanding that Paul had Eph 3

 

[brightfame52]

IF you believe that Saul had more light than Jeremiah, then you would be wrong

Yes Gentile inclusion in the New Covenant promises was a mystery to Jeremiah

 

[brightfame52]

My question for you @brightfame52 is what did Jesus not experientially know about God that he needed to believe in God? I will answer that for you. Nothing. The Word was with God. The Word personally was with God. The Word became Jesus.

That's a rabbit trail. Jesus had Faith/Trust in God Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

What does trust in him mean?

 

[brightfame52]

The modern English word faithful does not mean having faith. It means loyal, steadfast, true, staunch.

It includes faith, He was faithful to God

 

[brightfame52]

If Jesus had faith, lived by faith then He would of been included under the hall of faith in Hebrews 11

He is Heb 12:1-2 follow the context of Heb 11 His life of faith is superior to theirs. In fact that is the theme of Hebrews, Jesus Superiority in the things of God, Like over Moses, angels, Priest, offerings, life of faith, He has preeminence in all things